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Thread: CONSUMER GOODWILL

  1. #1
    Member Member TakeshidaSo's Avatar
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    ATMOSPHERE OF INCLUSION
    Is it meritless to say, that the company men don't appreciate the importance of re-establishing, and maintaining, the goodwill of their customers? If they didn't offend people, or too-quickly take offense without proper warrant, then a positive environment would prevail. The people who get called snipers, or complainers, are often shown how to behave that way. As evidenced by this recent, and many other examples before today. It is only natural for people to feel deeply disatisfied with being insulted, or totally ignored.

    Goodwill is critical to improving the company's online performance. Goodwill has a tremendous economic impact on a company's value, not only to itself, and it's investors, but to it's customers who want to remain loyal to their own smaller investments. Even serious problems with policy protocols, and service limitations, could be turned into a positive for the goodwill of the company, if the right public approach was taken.

    The latest developments of cooperation with the community has been a positive sign. Establishing limited customer contact, after all this time, with a small clique of veteran players, is not going to entirely solve the problem of re-establishing company goodwill. Even though it is stark in comparison with the past, it was a desperate remedy to the failure to be inclusive in the first place. The result of which, was a firestorm of criticism for Mongol Invasion, instead of the tremendously positive boost it should have been.

    Many of the game-features, designed specifically for online play, have repeatedly shown themselves to be inadequate, or counter-productive to developing a strong online market, and have been critisized for years. Equally important is how the company men have interacted with, and responded to, it's customers, and their complaints. This company handles it's somewhat regular physical service lapses, with extremely weak customer service, which has only exacerbated the poor cooperation between EA/CA, if that was the real cause of every serious problem.

    A review of physical service, customer service, public relations, and online marketing strategy, is desperately needed prior to the release of MTW. With special emphasis on existing, or new, game features that will improve online play, and increase the number of customers who play online. No matter whether you want to ignore what I say; by calling it unworthy of a response, or a complaint intended only for the purpose of inciting a flame-war, listen to the people who do consider it, and do analyze the merit of it. Maybe you will listen to me second, or third-hand.


    P.S.,
    Ubertech, very few people here ever read the forum at totalwar.com, so they will be unaware of any referrence we make to the reception you recieved there, and will be forever ignorant regarding the several posts that were edited, or deleted entirely.

  2. #2
    Summa Rudis Senior Member Catiline's Avatar
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    Ponder everyone before posting on why people don't go to .com

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  3. #3

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    People don't go there because it is a mess without the kind of policing that keeps this forum civil.

    The Mods are right to get rid of flamewars and trolling posts, because they don't want this forum to devolve into a mess as well.

    That being said Mods should never JOIN IN any kind of argumentative topic because it conflicts with their duty of dealing with forum management in an impartial fashion.

    If Mods deal with criticism directed at THEM differently than they would deal with a critical post about someone else, then it hurts their image on the boards.

  4. #4

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    Oh and it doesnt matter if M:TW is flawed and imperfect, because it is still going to be the best at what it does.

    They SHOULD keep improving it, but even if they DON'T everyone that complains will still buy and play it.

    It is common knowledge in gaming that the biggest complainers are the ones who play the game the most (why complain about something that youve already given up on), and that listening to the most vocal people in online communities just plain is not good buisness sense.

    So expect all this friction between devoted hardcore strategy gamers who want more and developers to continue pretty much forever.

  5. #5
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    I go to TW.com to remind me why I prefer it here .
    Nevertheless, I'm curious: Has anyone here had experience (good or bad) with Activision as a marketer/PR oufit? Sadly, I haven't.

    My experience with STW and MI has been that Creative Assembly has been accessible and helpful, where EA has been AWOL often, or playing "catch-up" (remember the 1500-series CD codes for MI?).
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  6. #6

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    And were else would one take their grievances with the companies? Actually, I got all my questions answered with that postís closing. Iím having it framed and will end up using it in a lesson plan eventually (Iíll change the names to protect the innocent of course).

    But my beef with the companies isnít one with the community or this boardís administrators. So I applaud your efforts, and apologize for the trouble.

    So what is my problem with the companies involved? Iím not going to waste any of your time with that, so please donít bother me with stories of how your experience with them has been nothing but warm fuzzies. (Though Iíd be happy to send anyone an email about itójust kiddingóor am I?) And Takeshido has pretty much put into words everything I had to say on the matter anyway.

    Please understand that Iím not here to ruin anything for anybody, so I will go quietly to the off the Off Topic forum now (thereís some good stuff in there!). Iíll be back in the General Discussion when I have something more positive to say about the game or anything constructive to add.

    My apologies and thank you.

  7. #7
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TakeshidaSo-san: Quote Ubertech, very few people here ever read the forum at totalwar.com, so they will be unaware of any referrence we make to the reception you recieved there, and will be forever ignorant regarding the several posts that were edited, or deleted entirely.[/QUOTE]Correct. Therefore, continued reference to them, let alone leaning on them to make a point, will be pointless.

    Furthermore, I have announced my extreme displeasure at conflicts seeping over here from the Community Forum on several prior occasions and will do so again here. No matter what sort of disagreement anyone might have had with anyone else over there, that matter is between those two people and the forum they (regretfully) use as their medium. Posters who make themselves personae non grata at the Community Forum sometimes feel the inclination to come here and complain about it, but it is not this forum's business, and will in most if not all cases lead to a flamewar, the kind of which detract from this forum universally and therefore are undesirable.

    If you, or Ubertech, intend to carry on a meaningful conversation on the nature of EA/CA's customer service in a civil fashion appropriate to this forum, you (and Ubertech) are, as has been told to you (and Ubertech), extremely welcome to do so.

    But if you, or Ubertech, feel the need to pursue a vendetta that is completely irrelevant to this forum, and cannot avoid it, this forum will not carry it. It is not a trash-heap. If Ubertech registered for that purpose and proves unable to carry on another kind of a conversation, the door is to his left, and he should endeavor to avoid hitting the frame on his way out.

    This is not a threat, nor is it an insult, against you or Ubertech. I have not said and do not mean to infer I would consider either of you two unable to carry on a productive conversation - yet. This is a simple statement of fact.

    Questions on what constitutes as what can be directed to my secretary. Send SASE with the label "A Respectable Tragedy".

    And thank your for your support, Kalt-san. Where it comes to conflicts of interest, suffice it to say that I concur with your principle, but still maintain that certain standards of objectivity can always be maintained, if by no other means, then by popular consensus. However, this is not really a thread to discuss that subject, yes?

    ------------------
    "Covetousness, anger and foolishness are things to sort out well. When bad things happen in the world, if you look at them comparatively, they are not unrelated to these three things. Looking comparatively at the good things, you will see that they are not excluded from wisdom, humanity and bravery."
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  8. #8
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    And that was posted in just the nick of time.



    Oh well. At least a point has been made for the future generations.

    Thank you for your wise decision to not pursue this subject further, though, Ubertech, it is probable that none of us would have been much the wiser in the end.

    Edit: and one double post was hereby deleted. This thread is a mess.

    [This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 01-21-2002).]
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  9. #9

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    P.S. Notice the time of my last post and that of Anssi Hakkinen. I hadnít seen his post when I posted mine, yet we seem to be very agreeable on this. I can see why you are the guy in charge Anssi Hakkinen. But a secretary, pleaseÖyou don't really have a secretary for this do you?

  10. #10
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    No, it was just some of my extremely twisted humor I often flash at the most inappropriate occasions.

    I also posted my post before seeing yours, so it seems we agreed inadvertently.
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  11. #11

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    And smilies herald the end of Western Civilization.

  12. #12
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Quote Mods should never JOIN IN any kind of argumentative topic because it conflicts with their duty of dealing with forum management in an impartial fashion.
    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with this, and often find the .Org doesn't adhere to that (recommended) policy. Having a mod involved in OT threads (whose content usually walks a thin line between political radicalism and flaming) seems like a recipe for community disaster, and I'm sure some users have left become of mod interference/bias as to why threads are closed or which users are shouted down.

    This said, I have to say having the Mods (Taishos) involved in such a conspicuous manner certainly keeps them human and less internet-diety-ish than some other forums I'm been on. But then I also know the unfair and miserable feeling of having a Mod "out to get you" on every post you make (PharaohHeaven, if you're curious).


  13. #13
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    oh yeah, almost forgot. never had a problem with mod interference here, and have no issues with the current mods (all are great guys). my opinion on mod behavior re certain topics is pretty much across the board, for any forum whether it's for gaming or historical studies. if the .Org mods choose to be ubiquitous, then things are more interesting for it. i can't make up my mind whether i'd like to have the .Org more "professional" or continue on its merry hilarious way to the center of the sun!

  14. #14

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    Without getting into all the bollux about who can say what, let me just add:

    Personally, I think moderators should view the delete, edit, and move buttons with as much trepidation as the officer sitting in nuclear silo with his finger on the launch key. You just donít use unless you absolutely have too.

    If a moderator wants to play contributor, then they should recognize the fact they just switched roles the moment they dip their toe in the water with an opinion. Just imagine being in a debate with a guy who also just happens to control the PA system.

    I prefer my moderators, out of sight, out of mine. But donít get me wrong, Iím not saying moderators shouldnít have there say, all I am saying is that if they do, they should say it as contributors and roll with the punches and fight those urges that invariably will arise. Itís a tough job, with human nature being what it is; it takes a lot of integrity and a fair amount of good judgment to accomplish. Think 60 Minutes and Brown and Williams.

  15. #15
    Summa Rudis Senior Member Catiline's Avatar
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    Pharoahheaven, that brings back memories, I've not been there in ages. I wonder if the name has an effect on the mods attitudes?

    i'm inclined to disagree on the not getting involved in controversial issues. Whilst I generally avoid them if they're getting heated, I don't see anything wrong in stating what I think whilst matters are still civilised. even this I don't always do, For the othre mods I can't speak, though i think in gerneral they either take the same line as me or follow the path of Ubertech and Soly. Each to their own. We're patrons here before we're mods, and if it's no fun just descending from Olympus to bang heads together. We want to be involved, and if you notice we are referred to generally by our names rather than our titles, which is more than can be said for many boards.

    as to the command keys they're used a lot less than they could be, and only when we have to.

    I thought you got run out of town everywhere but here Soly?

    BTW I'm a deity not a diety

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  16. #16

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    Perhaps you misunderstood me. My apologies. I didnít say you shouldnít get involved on controversial issues. Please, by all means do. But I would hope that when you do, you understand the fine line you walk, Iím sure you do. ĎConflict of Interestí is not just an abstract legal notion.

    To put it another way, itís like when your girlfriend asks you, ďDo these jeans make my ass look big?Ē I have learned the hard way a long ago to avoid this scene.

  17. #17
    Summa Rudis Senior Member Catiline's Avatar
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    Yes with a but, No with a however

    It's a very thin line, but generally we know where we're going

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    Bis peccare in bello non licet
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra

  18. #18
    Senior Member Senior Member Erado San's Avatar
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    So, when a moderator agrees with a persons point of view he can say that as a contributor? Then when the method by which the points of view are presented are not in line he can comment on that as a moderator? Then when the methods aren't changed, can he still take moderating actions even though he is also a contributor?

    When a moderator explains why certain methods aren't approved, does that make him a contributor or is he still the moderator?

    While I am now a contributor, technically as a moderator I could make the observation that accoring to the standards this thread is rapidly becoming off-topic.

    And why is only the moderator discussed? If there are rules in one forum, and a patron refuses to obey the rules, then a moderator can step in and take action and/or explain matters. When that is done, and that patron continues posting in the same manner, why is everybody suddenly having a problem with thin lines as themoderator continues his actions?

    And why are we suddenly confronted with this whole discussion again in the Sword Dojo about something that happened in the community forum?

    Anyone noticed how when Catiline closed a certain thread here nothing much happened? Has Cat been accused of being a lapdog of CA for blocking anything aimed at the companies involved?

    Any possible reason why I get the third degree then whenever I do that? Is that because I cross that thin line and try explaining matters first?

    There is one rule on the community forum that people might take a bit more seriously. Even in here. It's the rule about self moderation. Every patron is responsible for his posts, his opinions and the way they express them. The other forum guidelines are merely setting the boundaries for that. If patrons refuse to moderate themselves according to these guidelines the moderator should step in. If the moderator is kind enough to explain why I like to see that as a bonus.

    And if a patron keeps going on... the moderator does too.

    But if a patron then takes his complaints to another forum to continue his tantrum... well...

    UP YOURS!

    This was an opinion as a contributor. The last remark may be out of line. Moderators, feel free...
    A voice from the past is heard in the lands...

  19. #19

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    That last line was not out of line at all (Please donít edit it). Its just a human response; a perfectly predictable irrational human response to the mere discussion of subject at hand.

    Speaking of just being human, since when are so concerned about threads wondering a bit from the title of the topic. This is how conversation works; itís called Ďassociationí.

    Eradosan, this is not a personal attack. Itís a discussion on what a moderatorís role is (without getting into all the bollox of who has the right to say what).

    Please let it go. Please.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Shiro's Avatar
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    Don't get scared when you see the closed box. You can all continue talking in Off-topic. Thread moved.

    [This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 01-22-2002).]
    "Everything Shiro said sounds good to me."
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    "Catiline is the one with the black rag and Shiro is erm...the other one..."
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