This one is simple. At 8k and above, DONT USE THEM. As you have read b4, they simply rout when they get cut up by cmaa or fmaa or militia. They only have to loose a couple of men (20) to be in danger of routing, and there stats arent that great. Iv seen it in an 8k game recently, it started a chain rout and it lost them the game, with very few kills (2 v 2 winning side lost a grand total of 450 men). at 8k, what works best for me anyway, is a CWB army 2max, with 2 ms, 2 cmaa and 2 fmaa. your basic holding inf, and the lower morale isnt a problem at this florin level, as many units have lower morale. Also try to use 0 valour knights or val 2 mounted sergeants, its the only real option. If you boost cav, your inf will suck, if you boost inf to much, your cav will suck. Also xbows tend to get more important in a 8k game, because they dont cost that much (you can have a nice xbowline for less then 1k)

You could also use cmaa val 1, weapon 1, instead of val 2 (morale would be 6) and use the xtra cash to get 4 chivalric knights val o)

one mistake at this florin level and you won't recover, simply because mass routs are more comon here.

Iv also played a game (10k) vs val 2 halbs and val 2 orders recently (4 of each). It wasnt the easiest battle (mainly because i used 8cav) but with a good core of inf, and a unit of camels of my neighour and ally still managed to beat him. SO, what matters still is: Good attack/defend value. Its nice to try and hold your enemy, but you should kill a few to Balanced cavalry (between 6 and 8, exception.. when you play turks you can use the Heavy Janni's to kill of cav so everything between 2 and 6 is good).

Anyway, thats my opinion. You dont have to use the info , but dont expect mercy when we are in battle. As I said b4, NO PRISONERS

regards Sulla, proud member of Kenchikuka