Ancient: Total War

[Duke John]

Features
- Campaign focuses around the ancient Greek city states, the threat of Persia and the rise of Macedon starting in the 5th century BC.
- Of course new factions including: Spartans, Atheneans, Persians, Thracians and Macedonians.
- New range of ancient units together with their own unique unit graphics.
- New interface.
- And probably a whole lot more.

Screenshots

*** NEW SCREENSHOT 19-11-2003***
The campaign map


Work-in-progress interface and strategic castle pieces (Palace and Akroplis).


*** OLD SCREENSHOTS ***


Some old screenshots with my Spartan and new Macedonian unit graphics:




Why another mod?
I guess that this topic may rise questions about why I am again starting another mod.

Well, the medieval times have lost their charm in a way. I don't believe MTW can grasp the diversity of entire medieval Europe while still remaining atmospheric. With Hellinic: Total War made by Komninos and others another passion of mine awakened: ancient times. I think if a mod centers around a small specific theme then it will be much more exciting and immersive to play. H:TW was however not entirely to my taste and so I started my own mod.

I've been working with some modding groups and while it is satisfactory, it is also a bit of a hindrance. I love the community here, but when I want to spent my free time modding MTW I don't like to wait for others to submit information.
So I hope that this project of mine is not seen as a focus on myself, but merely as another mod and in this case just made entirely by myself.

- Cheers, Duke John

[Antalis::]

Sorry to hear that HTW is not entierly your taste, but then work with the HTW mod so that it´ll become your taste.

Are you willing to release the new units also for HTW or will they all only for your own mod then?

Why two mods on ancient, when one is enough and all could work together to make the best ancient mod ever?

Are you also willing to make 300 portraits, landscapes, castles, pieces?

[Duke John]

It's not just that HTW is not my taste. I also want to completely make a mod myself. Since my BIFs are generally appreciated I thought it was better to make the mod also available to the public.

Why not work with the HTW team? Well, I'm trying to organise the ME:TW - Team, and I think I'm not really suited for the task. Not that I have any intention in leading the HTW team, but I came to the conclusion that IMO the internet is great for bringing people together but it isn't that efficient for letting people work together.

I were to work the HTW team then I have to discuss and if I tell them that I will work on some BIFs then they will be waiting for the files. When I ask for descriptions then I will be waiting for the posts. Generally said mod development through forums takes alot of time. I would much rather do my stuff when I have the time and not with the pressure of other people waiting for the results.

I now know that I can completely make a conversion; unit graphics, campaign map, interface, icons, strategic pieces, txt files. I can mod them all, and I can do it at my own pace and according to my own taste. If that happens to like others, I am glad, if not then there are plenty of other mods that people can try out.

As a last comment, with Ancient: Total War I can finally make a campaign to my liking. My last serious campaign has been ages ago and A:TW is meant to give me something to play.

Quote[/b] ]Are you also willing to make 300 portraits, landscapes, castles, pieces?

Only 10 or so portraits are needed to make the game work. Besides I am seeing this project as a way to let my creativity run wild. I have the intention to make new building and unit icons and paint them like the Greeks did on vases. It's all about trying to create an atmosphere, having 300 different variants is not essential, a good theme is.

Cheers, Duke John

[Antalis::]

Then I wish you good luck with your mod and I hope your units will also be aviable for HTW or other mods.

[NagatsukaShumi]

I think my computer may explode, another new MTW directory is going to be needed for this now lol.

Its nice to see no rivalry between HTW and ATW (I've recently discovered the beauty of HTW and along with American Conquest I have been unable to stop playing it).

Is this MOD going to be centered around Greece?

Nag

[Emp. Conralius]

Great stuff From this to METW and the War of the Roses, how do you do it (don't have to answer that)? Mod on good sir

[komninos]

Hi DJ,

I guess my filling that I was putting to much pressure on you was right. Sorry for that ...

When I started the HTW I did it for my self really (moding addiction ... do I have to see a doctor for this? ).

Since we are dealing with the same period I can see why not to have some interoperability ... (units, buildings, and projectiles). I can send you the development files for these (v.2.0) and you can work with them. This will make it possible to build one unit for HTW and use it in ATW with out unbalancing the mod. It will also make thing easier for people to download.

I plan on taking some time away from HTW after I finish with HTW v.2.0 ... actually play a campaign in it with out debugging it

I plan on building a Bronze Age mod but I need those chariots ... to do it. We will see.

BTW ... Very nice letter font ... did you design the Ancient total war sign or this is some TTF?

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (NagatsukaShumi @ Nov. 18 2003,14:27)]Its nice to see no rivalry between HTW and ATW

Yes no rivalry, but DJ you´re always wilcome at the HTW-mod-team, if you want to join again in future.

[Duke John]

Komninos

Quote[/b] ] (moding addiction ... do I have to see a doctor for this? ).

I know exactly what you're talking about. The last few months all I do is modding and drawing. There remains little time for playing and when I do I can't stand some minor issue or graphic and I again start modding. With ATW I hope to soon finish a campaign to get some deserved rest...

Quote[/b] ]BTW ... Very nice letter font ... did you design the Ancient total war sign or this is some TTF?

I have no idea what a TTF is, but I grabbed the font from the internet after searching for quite a while.

Quote[/b] ]Since we are dealing with the same period I can see why not to have some interoperability ... (units, buildings, and projectiles).

I can't see this working since I have different ideas about techtrees and units, I am all for streamlined "realistic" techtrees. No such things as levels of spearmakers upgrading your spearmen. Rookies are green no matter the equipment they get.

To all interested
I have updated the first post with a new screenshot about the new interface (work-in-progress though) together with the Akropolis (also WIP). I have also added some tidbits about how the mod will turn out.

- Cheers, Duke John

[Scipio]

Where does it cover? Is it just Greece and Turkey like HTW or are you making it bigger?

[Duke John]

I've added a screenshot of the campaign map.

It focuses around the Aegean sea, which was historically the center of that region. I didn't include more of Turkey because it doesn't really add depth to the game. More Turkish provinces would only mean more provinces for Persia and they are already the largest faction. Besides it would only make the other Greek provinces too small to divide them up.

I believe Komninos thought the same way, so yes the geography is about the same as compared to H:TW.

Cheers, Duke John

[Emp. Conralius]

Will the Persians get Immortals? I think that would be something.

[dessa14]

haha use the models you created for kominos for his HTW very funny indeed
thanks dessa

[komninos]

Hi DJ,

Quote[/b] ]I can't see this working since I have different ideas about techtrees and units, I am all for streamlined "realistic" techtrees. No such things as levels of spearmakers upgrading your spearmen. Rookies are green no matter the equipment they get.

That is a game related problem ... have you seen the v.2.0 tech tree? How do you plan on doing it. I tried to focus on the "virtual" size of the City State the upgrades to buildings are quite complicated. Green troops are Green but training was different in large cities (Athens) than what you would get in small towns. That is what I tried to do unfortunately you can't upgrade a unit in MTW (ie. from Polemiste to Hoplites).

Do you plan on relishing the unit bifs separately ... you know I need them but that is up to you.
BTW I managed to grab a handful of images of hoplites though the ages starting ~1000BC till the Alexandrian times. I will post them this afternoon with some info in HTW thread.

On the font : can you give me the link to grab it? I am searching the net for weeks now to find something like that ... I guess I am not using the correct questions.

[Wellington]

DJ,

I'm puzzled

Last month you started a new "animations guide", seemingly oblivious to the fact that one had been written 12 months ago.

This month you start another "Greek/Ancient mod" knowing full well that several people have been successfully developing such a mod for the last 8 months.

Don't you think it may be an idea to continue in your area of undisputed excellence - creating new units, for the various mods you have 'on the go' at present - rather than recreating yet another wheel?

What's next? DJ's new Shogun to Medieval conversion, or a new DJ Nap mod?

Welly

[Duke John]

Be nice, Wellington I already expected a post by you.

My animations guide was meant to summarise everything I have learned and only leaving the essentials so that new modders can learn pretty easily with examples how to make new unit graphics.
Your guide spanned alot of pages full with text and IMO wasn't very comprehensible. I had the feeling that the community needed clear guides to the different areas of modding. Not just huge amounts of posts but more like tutorials as you can find for webpage building,etc.
If these are the wrong reasons, then say so.

Quote[/b] ]Don't you think it may be an idea to continue in your area of undisputed excellence - creating new units, for the various mods you have 'on the go' at present - rather than recreating yet another wheel?

Sure put me in a cage and encourage me do my trick time after time at your bidding. No, not my idea of spending my free time. I can do with it whatever I want.


But I'm having this feeling that there are people who think my ancient mod is too much like H:TW. Therefor I shall not update this thread anymore (or others). You will then not know of what I'm doing with my computer and I will not get to be told numerous times that I should focus my efforts.


Duke John

[NagatsukaShumi]

Just because its in Greece doesn't make it too much like HTW DJ, much like Centurion : Total War (Not trying to promote it or anything) is not a Patrician with fancy new colours for factions.

If you just joking excuse my rant .

[komninos]

We definitely like to put you in a cage and whip you till you deliver the units ... ...

Now lets get serious here ... your time is your time and you do with it what you please and this is what I stand for. I think what Welly says is that you have till now started the METW, War of the Roses, ATW, The guides, ... don't you think you should finish totally one then move to the next? Don’t you get lost somewhere along the way? I know mods never get to be finished ... but have it in a state that it is “done”. For HTW this will be in v.2.0 some development will continue but it will fall in to priority.

It is your call but here is my two cents ... I started the HTW with a mind focused on finishing it (actually finish it not what I have done till now moving from mod to mod with out getting somewhere). I did the Trojan just to relax and do something different. It is up to you my friend give it all you got ... and if needed I will help you ...

There are two more things ...
1. Please ... finalise the unit bifs ... ok, ok, me again ...
2. Check the 19th page of the HTW thread ... I think you will like what you will see

[Emp. Conralius]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Nov. 20 2003,08:32)]DJ,

I'm puzzled

Last month you started a new "animations guide", seemingly oblivious to the fact that one had been written 12 months ago.

This month you start another "Greek/Ancient mod" knowing full well that several people have been successfully developing such a mod for the last 8 months.

Don't you think it may be an idea to continue in your area of undisputed excellence - creating new units, for the various mods you have 'on the go' at present - rather than recreating yet another wheel?

What's next? DJ's new Shogun to Medieval conversion, or a new DJ Nap mod?

Welly

Geese You could cut the tension with a knife

[Emp. Conralius]

Come on guys This is ridiculous Duke John can do what ever he wants. He stepped up modding in these forums and we dont have the right to tell him what his focus should be on as far as modding goes. I would've expected the few of you who brought up this whole thing would respect that.

And now, DJ won't post any new posts to update this mod which I and other members of these boards were looking forward to.

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Emp. Conralius @ Nov. 22 2003,14:20)]Come on guys This is ridiculous Duke John can do what ever he wants. He stepped up modding in these forums and we dont have the right to tell him what his focus should be on as far as modding goes. I would've expected the few of you who brought up this whole thing would respect that.

And now, DJ won't post any new posts to update this mod which I and other members of these boards were looking forward to.

Sure, he can do with his freetime what ever he wants to do, but he is (was?) a very important member of HTW.
It makes me a bit sad, because he could help us with all his talent, but he wants to make his own mod, also a greek mod.

[Emp. Conralius]

I understand what you are saying, but has DJ stated that he was in fact not going to help you on the mod any longer? Also, whyis it such a big deal that he is doing a Greek mod? There were about 3 or 4 LOTR mods in progress, and countless Roman and Dark Age mods. I dont see how ATW is an exception from these cases.

[komninos]

Actually Antalis ... his mod is not 1 to 1 the same with HTW. He works on a different period / Time frame. By the unit selection I understand he focuses on the Alexandrian / Hellenistic times HTW finishes with the death of Philip. So the two mods are consecutive not over lapping each other.
There were thoughts of mine to move the HTW also into the Hellenistic Period ... actually late Hellenistic ~200BC when the large kingdoms have dimised in power and Greece is in a state of chaos. The cities states have formed "Simbolities" (some thing like modern Germany or the term can be literally translated to united states). The Romans are also heavily involved in the matters of Greece at this time and finaly using the "Aetolian Simbolita" they capitulated Greece. It is a tragic period with a bitter end that I would like to do ...
Well if DJ dose it this means I can work on some thing else like Bronze Age TW that I have planed for a long time

DJ please ... if this is the case then I need to know for two reasons.
1. I have some more units to put in the HTW site like the ones I have and you need them
2. I really do like the idea of a Bronze Age TW
3. For that ... I have to make a new map A map that would cover the entire Mediterranean from the Herculean Gates till the Golf area.

Cheers

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (komninos @ Nov. 23 2003,07:04)]Actually Antalis ... his mod is not 1 to 1 the same with HTW. He works on a different period / Time frame. By the unit selection I understand he focuses on the Alexandrian / Hellenistic times HTW finishes with the death of Philip. So the two mods are consecutive not over lapping each other.

I didn´t knew that, ok, then HTW would not be doubled, and also if: I only wanted to make clear that (in my opinion) working together is better then making 4 times the same mod by 4 different people, who are not in a team.

[Emp. Conralius]

Quote[/b] (Antalis:: @ Nov. 23 2003,07:27)]

Quote[/b] (komninos @ Nov. 23 2003,07:04)]Actually Antalis ... his mod is not 1 to 1 the same with HTW. He works on a different period / Time frame. By the unit selection I understand he focuses on the Alexandrian / Hellenistic times HTW finishes with the death of Philip. So the two mods are consecutive not over lapping each other.

I didn´t knew that, ok, then HTW would not be doubled, and also if: I only wanted to make clear that (in my opinion) working together is better then making 4 times the same mod by 4 different people, who are not in a team.

This is true. I only wish DJ would drop a line or two to give us some indication of were this is going.

[Marshal Murat]

Hey DJ, why don't you and Kominios (sorry if its wrong) work together. Kom does to Philips time, and you do from Alexander to the rise of rome. We could participate in the battles between Selucid and those nations. Have scythed chariots and Elephants. Stretch the map from Greece to Iran. That would be cool.

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]but he is (was?) a very important member of HTW.

I never considered myself a member of HTW. I only provided unit graphics, I never participated in any discussion whatsoever. I did this on purpose as I knew that I didn't have the time to keep myself updated, or provide answers when they were asked.

Quote[/b] ]but has DJ stated that he was in fact not going to help you on the mod any longer?

As said above I only helped by providing unit graphics, and I have never said that you would no longer get these unit graphics.

Quote[/b] ]So a good argument would be: "No one of the HTW mod team wants to accept any of my wonderful suggestions, so I´ll make my own mod", but DJ has never made a suggestion.

I did not have the time to make suggestions and discuss any consequences. Instead I wanted to spent the time, otherwise spent in discussing, into modding which has turned into a hobby of mine.

Quote[/b] ]Well if DJ dose it this means I can work on some thing else like Bronze Age TW that I have planed for a long time

I might do this, but you will only see the result not the progress.

Quote[/b] ]I only wanted to make clear that (in my opinion) working together is better then making 4 times the same mod by 4 different people, who are not in a team.

If you are looking at modding only as time spent to come to a result then you're right.
However I look at modding as a hobby. I've painted many wargame miniatures and as I got older my playing group disappeared. MTW provided me a way to "paint" units, but this time on the computer.
Modding is no punishment for me, then why do you judge me for modding?

I believe it was also asked what I did not like of HTW, well here's a small list:
- shield designs
- unit icons
- campaign map
- unit names, they're fine for greeks, but pretty confusing for dutch people for which english is already a second language.

But I do respect the work of the modders who did the above, not wanting to insult them by saying that I want to different I thought it was better that I did it my own way.

Finally
What is it on these boards that you can ask the same questions ten times without being judged, but when you try to make tutorials or make a mod, just because you like to do it your own way at your own pace, you get all kind of comments?

I only want to paint units and place them in an environment that is playable and realistic. I noticed in the past that more people shared my ideas. So I made threads and showed you my screenshots. I tried to help you with providing tutorials. While I know that these are still appreciated by some, I remain having the feeling that some people, who I think are respectable, need to judge my submissions to the community. I no longer want to walk around with thought about how I could convince them that I only want to practice a hobby.

So this will be my (temporarily) goodbye to the Dungeon. You may still find me at the ME:TW forums.

Cheers, Duke John

[Antalis::]

I see all who made very important things for HTW, like you did (the unit grafics) as a member of HTW, but anyway, don´t take it personally what I´ve said, that were only my thoughts.


I hope you´ll make your mod well and I wish you all good luck again for it.

Don´t get me wrong: I have a deeply respect for you and your work.
You opened new spaces for modding units and also your campaignmap and the pieces that I´ve seen were excellent.
DJ, you´re not only a modder I think you´re an artist.
This is my honest opinion.
That was the reason, why I wanted you to work together with the HTW mod again.


Hope this community will see you soon again.



Antalis::