Are the moderators doing a good job

[Teutonic Knight]

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ June 05 2004,15:41)]Well, if they came out and said 'I'm a card carrying member of the Nazi party", I think it would be fair.

well what if they didn't, as is comparable to this situation. What if their political beliefs only seemed to mirror those of the traditional Nazi party, but they didn't claim to be nazis themselves, then would it be ok to call them nazis?

[ichi]

Thanks Bhruic and Voigt for heeding my pleas.

I guess TK and BKS are going to continue debating whether calling someone a Nazi or Fascist or Liberal or Whatever is right or wrong.

Oh well . . .

In my opinion the Frontroom idea is working well.

The primary aspect that people post on in this thread has to do with warnings and closing topics and such (AKA Forum Fascism),

but I have found that moderating is about a lot of other things, like making stickies and unmaking stickies and providing hints and ideas to folks.

Anybody got any ideas about moderating that isnt focused on the Fascist aspect

ichi

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] ]I guess TK and BKS are going to continue debating whether calling someone a Nazi or Fascist or Liberal or Whatever is right or wrong.

Sorry man, I didn't notice that. I apologise, and will cease any kind of debate.

[Teutonic Knight]

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ June 05 2004,20:09)]

Quote[/b] ]I guess TK and BKS are going to continue debating whether calling someone a Nazi or Fascist or Liberal or Whatever is right or wrong.

Sorry man, I didn't notice that. I apologise, and will cease any kind of debate.

AND I WILL REFUSE TO ACCEPT

TO THE DEATH....or hot lovin'

whichever may come first

[Gregoshi]

BKS, the point being made was not that the debate has no merit, but that it is off-topic for this thread. It should have its own thread if anyone wishes to discuss it further. BTW, I was guilty too of taking the thread off course.

[ichi]

*Totally changes direction and takes this thread back Off Topic*

@BKS I actually saw the Wish You Were Here Tour, in '78 I think. My friends tell me I had a great time. Historical records from that era are spotty at best.

@TK (a la Homer) mmmmmm.... hot lovin

OK, back on thread

Maybe a better title for this thread would have been "How can the Mods improve?" instead of are they doing a good job.

How can we?

ichi

[dessa14]

9.24 percent against current mods.
11.76 are too afraid to say.
thanks, dessa

[A.Saturnus]

I really don´t see where the problem is. When someone doesn´t want to be called a fascist (and that are supposedly most people), you don´t call him a fascist. If you know that someone doesn´t want to be called a liberal, you don´t call him a liberal. And if someone doesn´t want to be called Eddy Baby, you don´t call him Eddy Baby.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ June 05 2004,17:22)]The primary aspect that people post on in this thread has to do with warnings and closing topics and such (AKA Forum Fascism),

but I have found that moderating is about a lot of other things, like making stickies and unmaking stickies and providing hints and ideas to folks.

Anybody got any ideas about moderating that isnt focused on the Fascist aspect

ichi

True enough, ichi. Unless you are moderating the tavern

I was/am in charge for custom avatars section, people would upload custom avatar/signature pictures, I would check whether they match the criteria and make them available for use, often have I offered my help (though not obliged to do so) and have helped some members by altering their pictures for them. They would say "thank you, you are so nice" I'd say "aww, you'll spoil me, I'm just doing my job" and there would be love and peace everywhere. I also host the Arena screenshots page where patrons can upload the shots from their games.

The world was fine until I accepted Saturnus' offer to work in the Tavern. Oddly enough, in a PM some two weeks before that he said to me "if anyone offers you this job, refuse" Obviously, I didn't listen to him…

Ichi, your area of MP is relatively quite and peaceful, and you should be grateful for that. In Tavern, the mods are bound to be declared a Nazi/Fascist/bigot/partial/incompetent/unfair, all in day's work.

Hence the tavern is the killing ground of the Org, and no place for gentle souls. Fights escalate within minutes and we are bound to spend more time warning people then giving them advices or helping them out. When people have nothing better to do, they go to tavewrn, looking for a fight.

I hope it will change as soon R:TW comes out. Hurry up, CA


PS Don't mistake my statement about gentle souls; I'm not implying that you're one, incapable of acting; err, also not implying that you are a brutal soul… I just wanted to…

And hence begins the bashing and swearing and cursing and closing and editing and warning…

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Luckily i've been made an AM in the Dungeon and fights and such never occur. I feel for the moderators in places like the Tavern because things can get heated and i admire anyone who tries to sort out the problems there

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] ]Hence the tavern is the killing ground of the Org, and no place for gentle souls. Fights escalate within minutes and we are bound to spend more time warning people then giving them advices or helping them out. When people have nothing better to do, they go to tavewrn, looking for a fight.

Just started to frequent it more often voigtkampf


Anyway, my point: why so hard to deal with the troublesome? You warn them, delete/edit their posts, and if they don't comply, ban directly. After 2-3 examples of these kind of determined action, everybody will be very polite. The Org is big enough to support the new policy even if some will choose to call the place a tyrany and leave it. I myself tested this on some forums where I am a mod, and it proved very succesfull.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ June 06 2004,02:43)]BKS, the point being made was not that the debate has no merit, but that it is off-topic for this thread. It should have its own thread if anyone wishes to discuss it further. BTW, I was guilty too of taking the thread off course.

That was how I took it. When I said I was going to cease debate, I menat in this thread.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] ]PS Don't mistake my statement about gentle souls; I'm not implying that you're one, incapable of acting; err, also not implying that you are a brutal soul… I just wanted to…

I like to think of myself as a rabid, gentle spirit. For example, I set things on fire for a living, but I do it for a good reason.

And yes, I am glad that the controversy in the MP Forum is not nearly as bad as that in the Tavern (altho it does get testy once in a while).

ichi

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (Dhepee @ June 03 2004,16:54)]The difference is that when you make a comment about "America" you are commenting on the entity that is America but not the people who are themselves Americans. America, or any entity, represents whatever that entity stands for but it does not itself represent the people that make it up. For that reason any attack on the entity, as long as you don't bring the people into it, is permissible. America is a nation but Americans are people, that is the difference, a subtle one but an important one.

If we were to disallow an attack on "America" then we would have to disallow attacks on any entity if we were to be consistent. It would severely limit your ability to criticize the actions of any entity such as a religious entity, corporate entity, national entity, etc, and this would make for very boring threads.

What is not allowed is any attack on a person or person(s) so for that reason a statement flaming the American people would not be allowed, just as a statement flaming any other national, racial, ethnic, or religious group is not allowed.

We cannot afford "America" any special protection that we do not afford to all other countries or entities and to afford that protection would fetter much of what we say in the Tavern.

The rule of thumb is this: You can say "Mars is an awful place" but you cannot say "Martians are awful." In the first example you attack Mars without attacking the Martians but in the second, the not allowed, example you attack the Martians. If there is one thing that I will not tolerate it is flaming martians.

What if I had it from good authority, as in a guy from Jupiter told me, that the Martians are in fact the scum of the Solar system, that they are mostly drug dealers, terrorists and criminals, actually if anything that they are at least as bad as the Neptunians? Would that be ok to write then? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

[Voigtkampf]

Get back to Earth you two…

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ June 06 2004,17:11)]Get back to Earth you two…

I am on Earth and from Earth, that's the whole point. We're talking about principles here.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (hrvojej @ June 06 2004,18:30)]

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ June 06 2004,17:11)]Get back to Earth you two…

I am on Earth and from Earth, that's the whole point. We're talking about principles here.

I know that, I was joking Relax…

Hrvojej, I believe that you have enough common sense to judge yourself what is all right to be said or not. I've seen your posts and know you are quite eloquent and civilized person.
There are no exact rules here at the Org about permissible slanders, we are all trying to maneuver our way through each and every crisis.
In my eyes, it is never appropriate to bash Mars; mostly it goes like "Mars is a typical example for low-lives, and they ain't even naturally green", then some Martians go "Since it comes from Neptunians, anorganic molesters and abusers of ammoniac, I won't even bother to answer.", and some Martians will go "Oh, yeah? Well, up yours, you intergalactic human abducting scum", Neptunians go "We were merely researching, you were sodomizing that helpless bipedals" and so forth ad infinituum.

Unfortunately, rarely someone says "I disagree with Mars' decision to conduct extreme probing on humans, it throws a bad light on that planet and will eventually bring them in a warning from Interstellar Organization for Protection of Undeveloped Civilizations", and even when someone manages to be so eloquent and non-offensive, there will always be a Martian with "Up yours" attitude.

Ergo, it is best/safest to let go of bashing any planet. Unfortunately, beyond the principles that are being listed in the forum rules, there are no further guidelines and moderators are being left to interpret them to their best extent. So, no exact rules can be established.

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately, beyond the principles that are being listed in the forum rules, there are no further guidelines and moderators are being left to interpret them to their best extent. So, no exact rules can be established.

voigtkampf, you do talk the talk

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ June 07 2004,01:56)]voigtkampf, you do talk the talk

Yessir, but I can also walk the talk Besides, when you receive a lawyer's education, even if you do not practice law, you are deemed to preserve some ability to wiggle around the issue

On the serious side, how do I work? If something said could be a subject to a sue before a court of law, and would have a reasonable chance of succeeding in the pending process, I tend to step in and wave the moderator's red card.

[Nigel]

From what I have seen in the MP forum recently, very good moderating action from all mods involved.

Editing a post to comply with the rules.

Listening to and commenting on comments made and concerns voiced.

Taking actions to try and steer the conversation to the appropriate dircetion and location.

And finally, closing a topic where all points have been made and things are now threatening to develop into a mere flaming match.


Well done, IMHO

[ah_dut]

I also agree that the mods do a good job, however, i think that a stricter policy may be necessary in that place the TAVERN. I want to be a mod but in the tavern no way

[King Edward]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ June 06 2004,15:54)]I really don´t see where the problem is. When someone doesn´t want to be called a fascist (and that are supposedly most people), you don´t call him a fascist. If you know that someone doesn´t want to be called a liberal, you don´t call him a liberal. And if someone doesn´t want to be called Eddy Baby, you don´t call him Eddy Baby.

I have no Objection to being called Eddy Baby

[ah_dut]

eddy baby and i think the mods are doing a good job

[Navaros]

certain Mods here are too lax

other Mods here are too strict

other Mods here crackdown on some things like flaming, yet at the same time turn a blind eye to worse offenses, like spamming made simply to increase a spammer's spam count

so i say average. the Mods here could be doing a better job, and they could also be doing a worse job

props to Gregoshi tho, that guy rocks hardcore

[TosaInu]

Hello Navaros,

There are certainly different styles between the mods as there are between posters. There are also different types of forums, the Mead Hall for example doesn't compare to the Tavern (that's fine as there's a place and time for many things).

I do not agree that spamming (in the designed places) is equally bad as flaming. Spamming (when is a series of post spam?) is annoying in serious topics only. Flames spread throughout the entire board.

I can imagine what you mean though. One of the problems for moderators is that you first have to spot the offense, then rate it and finally take action. All 3 are error prone.

About 500 posts are made every then, and some are quite large. Within that post can be a hidden insult. And even if the mod finds the needle in the haystack, can he see it's a needle? That's not always obvious.

How serious is the needle? Not rarely people are throwing needles at each other. Not nice, but should there be action now? Medicines can be nastier than a disease and some diseases cure by themselves.

Actions are usually done behind the scenes. A PM is sent, the first warning cards are invisible. We want to stop something, not nail a person in public. Of course there are public actions when the private ones sort no effect, or when there is a history.

And yes, when a mod edits your post it reads edited by ... But a behind the scenes edit doesn't seem a nice system either. Not that any of the mods would abuse it, but it's not a comfortable idea.

Actually, I'm a quite disappointed that moderators, password protected accounts, password protected databases, flood control and all other things are required on a forum.
A forum shouldn't need any of this, only keep the software running and help each other out. Fortunately, the latter part is still the main job of moderators.