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Thread: can we have a strategy forum please

  1. #1
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    hi

    as general discussion is too varied is it possible to have a dedicated tactics and strategy forum please as this is my main interest and i'm sure others would like this too.

    thanx
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  2. #2
    Member Member Darth Wart's Avatar
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    hear hear!

    I second that.

  3. #3

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    I dunno, it seems to me that General Discussion has plenty of tactics/strategy discussion. I'm doing my best to keep off-topic stuff out

    If tactics/strategy moves to another forum, what would we talk about in GD?

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  4. #4
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    hi rob

    in answer to your post please look at page 1 of the gd discussion page.

    i think we'll be lucky if 1/4 of the posts are strategy related.
    ---------------------------------------------
    topics such as

    news on the online campaign game

    happy christmas

    remember the demo days

    ok lemme rephrase the poker thing

    about shogun battle calculator

    the great chaos

    a new member of the shogun world

    plz visit the clan/tourney forum for latest news

    mongol expansion confirmed and more

    everytime i get kick out of a game i lose

    the inner workings

    ok is anyone intersted in a poker night

    can ou believe this?lonely wolves

    war story

    real time movies for shogun

    1000 wins quest fulfilled

    the anticipation

    a quick hello

    i got a question about icons

    what the hell is wrong with the .com site.

    help with beheaded emissaries

    another game ruined

    hey you can play online with just a dialup

    arrrgghhhhh stomp!stomp!whine!moan

    everyone read this now

    the christianity challenge


    ---------------------------------------------

    no offence rob'but to me that is general discussion!!!

    but i don't wanna read 9/10ths of it.

    i want tactics and strategies and i think i found maybe 4-5 related things on page 1.

    hach
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  5. #5
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    As a person who's been on the ORG almost from the beginning, my opinion is that the General Forum does a good job with strategy information, so we don't need a seperate strategy forum.

    I've seen just about every subject strategy related on here at least twice, and don't see the value in having a forum that's bound to be a perpetual repeat on things such as the merits of Heavy Cav, when it already exists in full form on this one.

    I've noticed that the ones asking for a strategy forum are also the same ones who ask whole strings of questions looking for a quick fix (including complaining about which cheats don't work) rather than playing the game to figure things out for a while, first.
    It's been my sense that the purpose of a forum is to provide information and a consesus of the player's general feel of the game, most times users ask a few questions then reciprocate by helping others down the line, I've noticed this hasn't been the case for several regulars who continue to ask and complain with no effort to contribute.
    Here's some strategic advice for you: Stop using cheats, download the full PDF format manual, and then play the game using your best reasoning before coming here for help.
    You'll be a pro in no time.



    [This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 12-20-2000).]

  6. #6
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    solypiss

    get off your ego and come down to earth.
    as i guy with over 700 posts on the old dojo(150 hachimanMk1 550 hachimanMk1)i don't wanna have to put up that kind of shit.

    and any time you wanna test this NOVICE CHEATER LOOKING FOR A FIX you just name the time.

    the reason i want a seperate forum is because i am interested in just that.i've already proved that the general discussion is exactly that!!!!general
    i don't give a rats arse about mongols(sorry joska)and who got what from santa

    i know tactics.
    i have the pdf manual.
    but there is always more to learn and i'd rather be informed than spend months experimenting.

    and lastly anyone who thinks clavells shoguns crap's opinion counts for nought.

    hach

    this message has not been edited in any way or form by hach)
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  7. #7
    Member Member Ai-jin's Avatar
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    Well I would have to agree with hach on having a seperate forum on strats, my reason is simple, I have to waste lots of time searching throughout the general forum for the strategy docs that i wish to review.
    It would make it simpler to have a seperate forum and that might also stop having ppl asking the same questions that has been raised in the past because they cant find the threads that pertain to there problem.

    IMO - thank you.

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    "The rivers will flow with blood from thy enemy"

  8. #8
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    thanx ai-jin

    and exactly another reason!!
    everyday newbies come in and ask these kinds of questions and if they had a decent library in the form of the strategy forum it would also get them off the general forum.

    hach
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  9. #9
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    ah, yes. namecalling.
    a true sign of...something.

    So much for trying to give an opinion. Apparently anyone who thinks differently than what Hach demands or prefers is up for abuse, whether it be one's thoughts on matters other than gaming. It seems users can't even post cheesy sayings on MultiPlayer without getting on Hach's nerves.

    [This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 12-21-2000).]

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    The problem with "Strategy" forums is that few people actually post there. Heck, even at the Fearful Ways tactics forum I feel lonely

    Have your forum, but don't be disappointed by the turnout.
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  11. #11
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    i think the tactics forum would be popular blackship and i'm willing to try to make it one.

    soly forget it.
    your reply proves what i thought and said

    hach
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  12. #12

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    Now children, be nice

    Perhaps what we need is a FAQ, regularly posted to General Discussion, which would answer most of the 'newbie' questions?

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    MizuRob Hojo
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Black Ship hit the nail right on the head; we could make 100 new forums, but no one would bother to use them. Besides which: the mandate of General discussion forum clearly includes strategy:

    Quote (This is listed right under the forum name)

    General Discussion about the game; including strategy, tactics, and tips.[/QUOTE]

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  14. #14
    Member Member Katasaki Hirojima's Avatar
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    Hmm,from what I'v seen,its management vs the people.All the high and mightys telling us what we will do,in other words -assumeing-.Your assumeing that we won't use it.you've been playing Shogun to long,assumeing is a very bad thing to do,and it gets on my nerves when people do it.

    YOu want proof that the strategy forum whould be worth your precious time,go to AoKH and check out there strategy forum,that place sure don't look deserted to me,and on top of that,AoK dosen't have a scrap of real strategy to it.All you need is a calculator and knowledge of every hotkey.

    Make the strategy forum,I can garuntee you I'll post there,heck,half the strategy posts on page 1 are by me.I know Magy whould post there (hopefully!) and a couple other people whould.

    And Soly err,however you spell it,I'v never used a cheat in my life,I hate them,they're the bane of my existence.I'd rather die then use a cheat to win,it's dishonorable.

    Renember,no one knows what the future may hold till it has come upon us.You think the strategy forum whouldn't work,but you can't say for sure,well,not truthly.Give it a chance...because those who do not play the game,never win.

    ------------------
    "I maintain none the less that Yin-Tang Dualism can bo overcome.With sufficent enlightment,we can give substance to any distinction:Mind without body,north without south,pleasure without pain.Renember,enlightment is a function of will power,not of physical strength."-Shang-ji Yang,essays on mind and matter.
    I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength.- Shang-ji Yang

  15. #15

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    True, but the AoK forums are a hell of a lot busier in general. They need separate forums. I don't think that the idea of a separate forum is all that bad, but there doesn't seem to be a real need for it. We're hardly overflowing with strategies in General Discussion, are we? Shogun players are notoriously secretive about their strategies anyhow

    A lot of other sites I have seen allow off-topic posts in their General Discussion forum. Well, we have a separate forum for that. General Discussion is for game-related stuff. If someone posts a clan question, patch question, tournament question, historical question or technical question it gets moved. This forum can be used for posting strategy/tactical questions and has been very successful too - for example, the recent threads on Cavalry (around 100 posts) and Ranged Units (can't remember how many posts, but quite a few).

    If a clear majority of people wanted a strategy forum, we would have one by now

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    MizuRob Hojo
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  16. #16
    Member Member Widda's Avatar
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    Yea, more forums to search through to find information. Don't ya think this place is fragmented enough as it is. Let alone having to search a different forum for each idea. If the info gets spread to far the org will become unwieldy...

    Please leave it as it is... BTW, not everyone has the time or the inclination to search through multiple forums for the info they require....

    DoragonWidda Daidoji .

    [This message has been edited by Widda (edited 12-21-2000).]

  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Katasaki Hirojima;

    As Rob points out since they probably have 10-20 times our content volume it's highly unfair to compare the Dojo to the AoK Heaven forum.

    Look at it this way, if you can just get by the name "General Discussion", for all intensive purposes this is the strategy forum.

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  18. #18
    Member Member Methabaron's Avatar
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    Katasaki,

    Quote I know Magy whould post there (hopefully!)[/QUOTE]

    LOL, you surely are joking !!, Mr Magyarkhan is the most lazy writer ever !!!, he either just do not bother or as he says he really does not want to give away his tactics ...

    Anyways, back to the topic. I am always for not defragmenting the forums and Kurando has good experience in managing forums so his opinion would probably be one of the most accurate here.

    But,

    What if we give it a trial period of 1 month and see what happens?. Let's see how ppl like it or not. If we see the forum is alive and kicking and ppl don't complain or even praise it then we can call it good; if not we just go back to the way things are now.

    Metha

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    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Dark Phoenix's Avatar
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    What about having an archive area for all past strategy threads which allow people to find stuff pretty easily without having to look through all of General Discussion. The only problem that I see with thix is that it is extra work for the moderators andif the Org has enough space for the extra forum.

    Phoenix

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  20. #20
    Member Member Kanzaki's Avatar
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    I have to agree, there really isn't enough traffic to warrant a different forum. What, three people posting, saying they'll be there? Three people is a thread, not a forum.

    As for the archive idea, that *is* good, but what would be the point? Most of the threads discussing strategy digress at some point, that's what forums do . I'm one of those who wandered in, hunting for strats, but I'm not about to expect an established forum to organize itself just for li'l ol' me. I hunte through the pages, and found some interesting stuff. And it didn't take that long.

    My solution to the argument- actually *gasp* type a related title! If your posting a thread about Archers, bloody well say so. Most of the irritation of perusing forums, I think, is caused by that.

    Mind, I *am* new, and I don't want to step on any toes. Just thought I'd contribute.

    That's my two koku!

    Ashigaru Proletariat of Japan, UNITE!

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Dark Phoenix;

    Now that's a hell of an interesting idea! And in fact, it wouldn't be all that difficult to do (so long as the moderators didn't mind a little extra work...) I'm going to talk it over with Rob and Didz at the end of the month meeting. No promises mind you, but that's good innovative thinking on your part, props!


    Metha;

    I've tried to talk strategy with Magy in the past, and you're dead right: he keeps his cards very close to his chest. The other heavy hitters are not going to say dick either + I don't blame them.

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  22. #22
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    well the high and mighty's have spoken.
    i don't see the harm in the seperate forum and if people don't use it'then they don't use it.
    but i would use it.

    but an archive seems like the best we'll get.

    hach
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  23. #23
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Hach;

    By my calculation you have been around .org longer than anyone else who is still active in the community + Please don't think I do not respect your opinion, because I do. Additionally, please don't think that I am making a snap-decision for no good reason, because you know me better then that.

    If everyone wanted a seperate forum it would be a done deal, but judging from the content in this thread that is clearly not the case. So, in lue of being able to make everyone happy, (which we certainly can't), I reckon a strategy archive is a valid compromise.

    As it stands the moderators do a bang-up job keeping this forum clear of all non-Shogun content, and as you can tell by the forum discription strategy and tactics are already THE key mandate of this multipurpose area. -Let's not forget how far we've come from the "who's the real Dragur" days . All things being equal, I think .org is doing pretty good...

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  24. #24
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    thanx kurando

    the archive sounds good
    The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

  25. #25
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    I must admit I supported the idea of a Strategy and Tactic's months ago when things were really busy and everyone was swapping notes.

    Now,I think things have moved on and we simply don't have the traffic to warrant it.

    However, it would be nice to have somewhere where important and valuable threads could be archived so that they didn't get lost in the clutter.

    And I agree with Kanzaki careful choice of subject heading does help.
    Didz
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  26. #26
    Member Member Katasaki Hirojima's Avatar
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    Your right,comapreing the two sin't right.Dojo just isn't that big.

    Dark Phoenix,that IS a good idea..I'd still like a forum so I can reply and add my 2 cents,but eh,oh well.SO far,most strategys on the GD forum are dropping like a rock,cept for a couple.I'd like an archive,I hate chaseing posts.

    BTW,that lil sentence with Magy WAS a joke.I haven't been here no time and can already tell he dosen't give to many secrets.The (Hopefully!) tagged on was a clue I was jokeing,maybe I should have tryed to make it sound more sarcastic.

    That reminds me,why IS everyone so secretive,In AoK,most vets were more then willing to share there strategys with newbs or anyone eles.I often did,and so did many others.If you read those forums you might notice a guy named Doug Thomson(sp?) he posts lots about the same stuff magy does(if rarely) the amount of eliteism and hierarchal secrets in this gameing community are a tad unsettling.I always promote the free flow of information.

    ------------------
    "I maintain none the less that Yin-Tang Dualism can bo overcome.With sufficent enlightment,we can give substance to any distinction:Mind without body,north without south,pleasure without pain.Renember,enlightment is a function of will power,not of physical strength."-Shang-ji Yang,essays on mind and matter.
    I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength.- Shang-ji Yang

  27. #27

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    Well I try to make my own little contributions here and there, though it's a desperate man who follows my tactics

    I agree, it would be nice to have some more tactics posted in here. However, most tactics boil down to one thing: flanking. The entire purpose of Shogun tactics is to find a way of hitting your enemy's flank.

    My advice is: be creative! Try your own tactics rather than copy someone else's. Just remember the flanking thing, it's the only important thing worth remembering. Other than that, the rest is just personal style.

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    MizuRob Hojo
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    The difficulty in vociferating battlefield tactics is that they are frequently dependant on the situational complexities and opportunities that present themselves during the course of the battle. Thus, to describe them will essentially be a historical recount of battles fought and how the initial pre-battle strategy either worked flawlessly or had to be modified to acheive victory -- and whether it worked or not. I don't think most posters will be up to providing that much detail simply due to the amount of writing involved. Since no two battles are really alike, I think a lot of people will see this as 'media coverage from the battle zone' more so than an insight into tactics.

    Campaign strategy on the otherhand, would benefit for a while. But, this is a lot more formulaic than the battlefield strategies in that once you find a move sequence that works, you rarely need to deviate to be successful. Thus, this side of the new forum would die away after a while and degenerate into a FAQ (at least until the add-on?).

    That's just my 2 koku. But I would love to read other people's tactics...!

    And the number one tactic on the forum would be: HOW TO BEAT A MONK RUSHER!

    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  29. #29
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    yep. Flanking. Muskets shooting at monks works. Just put your Yari on Hold Formation, engage the monks, move your gunners to a flank, click off the Fire At Will, and start shooting. Works every time, except in rain.

  30. #30
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    I think a FAQ somewhere easily accessible (eg the community site) which actually answers newbie questions briefly and succintly would be an excellent addition. To be sure, the info is out there but I found it rather dispersed and swamped by other discussions when I was a newbie.

    I don't fancy a separate stategy forum. I like the diverse collection of postings in the General Discussion forum. Forming a separate strategy forum may isolate newbies from the community since they would be less likely to read the General Discussion banter.

    Does that make any sense? I know what I'm trying to say, but haven't expressed myself very well I'm afraid!

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    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

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