imbalance with units?

[|OCS|Virus]

how many of you have noticed a realy big imbalance in MTW with the available weaponry of southern countries like almo, egypt and turks. in compairison to the northern country weapons of the russians, germans, and italians? I mean you have the Almos with these little pointy sticks and home made bows rushing these discrentaled german and russian armies with swords, pikes, and halberds with full metal armour. Does anyone have any good tactics for using these more-or-less weaker countries? Because when I hit Italy my armies start to loose a lot of the battles. just curious thanx =}

[cutepuppy]

I almost can't believe my eyes. The almohads can build their famous AUM with only a town guard, they get a bonus in granada and iron depositis are very close. It is true they lack really heavy units, but what else can you expect from a faction that lives in desert and arid regions? Above all they have great generals. Egyptians have some better units (Khawarazmian cavalry, Abyssinian guard, mamluk cavalry and saracen infantry). And the Turkish have one of the best unit rosters in the game. They can build valour 2 Armenian heavy cavalry (only slightly worse than chivalric knights) and valour 2 turcoman horse after 30-40 years. In high and late they can build janissaries, which are among the best units in game.
Muslim factions have good troops, but you can't always use them in the same way you use christian units (rush forward and kill, kill, kill )

[Funky Phantom]

Agreed Cutepuppy.

The Almohad Urban Milita are probably the best infantry in early with the possible exceptions of Varangian Guard, Swabian Swordsmen and Viking Huscarles (not sure about this one) and with far lower build requirements and a +1 valor bonus from an Almohad starting province, these guys are not to be laughed at. Other than this they can get other decent units such as Ghazi Infantry, Nubian Spearmen, Muwahid Foot Soldiers and Faris, making for a pretty solid unit roster (admittedly they become outclassed in High and Late, but in Early, the Almo's are right up there). Their +1 bonus to Dhow's in Tunisia also allows them to dominate the seas.

The Egyptians, though my least favourite Muslim faction, are again a very strong faction. They start with rich lands and have a very solid unit roster, with all three kinds of Muslim Spearmen (Nubian Spearmen, Saracen Infantry and Muwahid Foot Soldiers), good cavalry, both light and heavy (Mamluk Horse Archers + Cavalry, Kwarazmiam Cavalry, Faris, Bedouin Camels) along with infantry such as Nizari's, Ghazi Infantry and Abysinnian Guard. All in all, a very strong roster and with more staying power than that of the Almohads.

The Turks are amongst my favourite factions in the game due to their roster, which comprises all the best bits of standard Muslim armies (Kwarazmiams, Ghazi's, Saracens etc) with the more specialist Turkish elements (Jannisary Heavy Infantry , Turcoman Horse and Foot men, Futuwwa, Janissary Infantry etc). This makes for an amazing force that can trounce the cream of the Catholic crop throughout the ages (with a few exceptions). As Cutepuppy mentioned, the Armenian Heavy Cavalry and Turcoman Horse units are further boosted by +1 valor bonuses in Armenia and Tripoli respectively.

While we're at it, id say that the Russians are one of the most boring and underpowered factions in the game. Their lack of any inidividual units other than Boyars and Rus Spearmen (Early only) make them little better than Golden Horde fodder. Id be interested in playing them due to thier position, but i find it mind-numbing due to their lack of any individualism as a faction.

The point here being, Muslim armies are not to be laughed at

[Fragony]

The muslim factions are not weaker, they require different tactics. It is steady damage (catholics) vs hit/run/strike (muslims). If you play a muslim faction like a catholic you will get spanked indeed.

[FoundationII]

If you act quickly with the Almohads, you can take all of Egypt, Spain and gain a foothold in France before they can even raise any good units, Almohads rock in the early game with there AUM.
When you took these provinces you have enough recources to recruit a huge army to take Turky and conquer the rest of Europe (you want to have the Byzantines as a friend in early game until you took most of Europe)

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Jan. 18 2004,10:12)]The muslim factions are not weaker, they require different tactics. It is steady damage (catholics) vs hit/run/strike (muslims). If you play a muslim faction like a catholic you will get spanked indeed.

Agree with Fragony 100%. If you apply standard catholic tactics suited to catholic armies(spear/missile/hvy-inf/hvy-cav) to muslim armies (light/fast inf, horse archers, good foot/missile hybrids) yer gonna have troubles.
With muslim factions, i'll still go with a solid core of the best spear supported by some missile, but it's a much more fluid, maneuvering army. Use tactics to take advantage of the muslim roster, don't try and pound a square peg into a round (catholic) hole.

[|OCS|Virus]

I agree that the turks have some good units, but they require a lot of buildings to get the good ones like janisary even if you start instantly working twords them, and while there hybrids are good archers they dont do very well against most hardend infingtry like chivalrick knights. some cant even stand up to a good unit of spear men. I just dont see enough heavy hitters with muslim factions. As for the egyptains there arnt realy a lot of good units the best are probly the Ghazi inf, and nubian spearmen. and Ghazi is a good unit and all but the number of these units that would be required is impracticle. As for thw Kwazamian horsemen I can make no argument against those there just good, unless you run into spearmen but that is only common sence you dont try running into those w\ you horsemen. And yes the almo have almo infintry but what else do they have, besides the guys with the little bombs I cant think of the units name right now. Yes its a good unit but it will only get you so far untill you run into pikemen of some sort. just seems like catholics and orthadox countrys have a very big upper-hand compaired to the muslim factions. Although there are tactics that will let you win most senarios, I think there are just a lot less of them.

[Brutal DLX]

It is true that besides the Turks, the other Muslim factions don't match up well against Catholic faction in a head-on confrontation.
Later Catholic armies usually are very heavily armoured and also use cavalry heavier than yours. Because of that, it is a good idea not only to hit and run, but to focus on your own armour piercing units when facing them. Thus, one should assemble armies consisting of Pavise Arbalesters, Ghazis, Abyssinian Guards, Militia sarges (Almohads) and mix in a few spear units for holding. Then fill the rest of the slots with medium cavalry (Ghulams, mamluks etc), used for quick flanking and charges from the rear.
Ideally, your army should do most of the damage as the enemies approach and before the melee ensues. If you can do that, you have a good chance of winning.