Knights and Master Horse Breeder

[Servius]

I've noticed that Knights don't get a +1 valor bonus from Master Horse Breeders. That seems wrong to me. There is also some disagreement over whether the Baronal Estate gives a valor bonus to Knights, and even if it does, it seems only Germany and Italy can build that building.

What needs to change in order for Knights to get a +1 Valor bonus from the Master Horse Breeder?

[cutepuppy]

Baronial estates doesn't give a valor bonus to knights. And it seems that it is impossible to give knights a valor bonus through the master horse breeder.
I don't know for sure (and I probably won't explain it clear), but I think the game uses a kind of "building importance list" to determine if a unit gets a valor bonus or not, and which building should give that bonus. If a unit needs several building types (like royal court, armourer and horse breeder for knights), only the most important building type will give a valor bonus, if there's one defined for that type.
If this is correct, the ranking would be like this:

1: royal court
2: horse breeder
3: bowyer
4: swordsmith, spearmaker

So you see, if a unit needs one of the royal court upgrades, it would never get a valor bonus, because there aren't any defined for that building type.
To solve that problem, you should add troop upgrade capabilities in the crusader_build_prod13 file in the MTW folder on your harddisk.
Just add {},{},{},{UPGRADE_VALOR(1)} in the correct field and it should work.

[Servius]

I actually tried this yesterday. I did two things.

1) I made it so the Baronal Court (2nd to last in that chain, the one everyone can build) give a valor bonus, and

2) build a Baronal Court AND a Master Horse Breeder in Wessex, and retrained a Chiv Knight there

Unfortunately, the knight did not get any valor bonus, even though both of the Troop Producing builds used for that unit each were supposed to give a +1 to Valor.

So I really have no idea what to do at this point.

One last possibility remains. If changes made by the Gnome editor do not affect existing games, but only affect games started after the changes were made. This is because I used a game I started before I made these adjustments to test them, and though the valor bonus to the Baronal Court did show up in the building info text, I'm not sure if it would actually apply it to buildings and units made "pre-patch."

[cutepuppy]

Yeah, I think you have to start a new game before your modded build_prod becomes available. I once changed the battlefield configutration (you know: hilly, mountainious,...battlefield, with or without river) and the changes didn't show up immediately, but only after I started a new campaign.
I know for sure that modding the unit_prod file has an immediate effect.

[Servius]

maybe you can answer another question for me too. I downloaded the julian_year1454_limit_fix file. If you don't know what this is it is supposed to move the game year past 1453, when the game ends, so that you can continue playing.

My concern is that applying this patch will change other modifications I've made and I was wondering if you can tell me whether it will or not. The patchnotes say it won't affect any other mods but I was hoping to get some first-hand opinion.

[Servius]

fyi...

I started a new game with the mod to the Baronal Court to give +1 Valor.

Chiv Knights, with the modded BC, still didn't get any valor bonus.

After building a Master Horse Breeder they STILL didn't get any valor bonus.

I also modded in Foot Knights, which required the same Royal Court + Armourer as their mounted bretheren, but not the horse building. These units DID get the valor bonus from the Baronal Court, so that building is working fine.

The problem seems to be with the Knight units and not with the buildings.

I'd like to test whether lancers get a valor bonus, seeing at they also require two Master Level buildings (spear and horse). If they don't get a bonus there might be some king of problem when a unit requires two "Unit Producer" buildings, the game flips out and won't award any valor bonus.

[cutepuppy]

(also posted in another thread:)

"It is certainly not the fact that two buildings are involved. I have trained valor 2 pronoiai allagion in Nicaea (1 province bonus, 1 from master horse breeder), also byzantine cavalry or mounted sergeants get a bonus from the master horse breeder (all those units need 2 or 3 troop producing building types). Lancers don't get bonuses.
I think that a unit that really needs the highest level building, doesn't get the bonus. Or, more generally, if a certain level of troop producing building gives a certain valor bonus, the troops that need that building level for their training, won't get the bonus, but they will get the bonus from higher level buildings. (anyone who understands this sentence from the 1st time???)

So, if you give the baronial court a valor 1 bonus, chivalric knights wouldn't get the bonus (because they NEED this building), but feudals would have it.

To be honest, I didn't really tested this theory, but I experienced some facts of it (Pavise arbalests don't get the valor bonus from master bowyer, but normal arbalests do), so I guess it is right. "


But this doesn't explain the bonus for footknights. Maybe you can mod the game so footkn. need one of the royal_court upgrades and a certain level of swordsmith or spearmaker and see if they still get the bonus.