The inherent western bias to this game...

[Russ Mitchell]

You know, I have several times tried to use my beloved horse-archers correctly... now, it is an irritating and frustrating thing that horse-archers cannot fire on the move in this game, nor perform the "Parthian shot" over the rump of the horse.

But that's a relatively minor, if irritating matter. What **really** guts the effectiveness of the horse-archer and other skirmishing archers in this game is the assumption that the point of battle is to destroy the enemy and drive him from the field... so ...

1. if you play VI and play the Welsh as they should historically be played, as raiders looting the surrounding provinces, you automatically increase the opponent's army size, as their militarily abandoned provinces spark revolts.
2. if you take a unit of horse archers and kill 12 out of 20 of the enemy's royal knights with arrows while skirmishing around a bridge, and then leave, your unit commander gets a hideous reputation and commensurate penalties.

The advantage of the horse archer historically is that it has both strategic and tactical value. Tactically, 'nuff said, we all know it. But strategically, they are used to raid, harass, destroy infrastructure, and otherwise damage teh opponent's backfield and economy such that their ability to resist is eroded from the inside out. In tactical terms, in Scenario Two above, I am technically the "loser." In strategic terms, I'm golden -- his commanding unit has taken a serious battering, and is now essentially "combat ineffective."

How can this be handled? Is there some way to give a bonus for leaving the field with your troops intact, without giving generals an incentive to simply flee the field until they're unstoppable?

What do you gents think?

[hellenes]

The only thing that i can say is that i agree with you... Now as for the solution i think that the thing that can be done is the tweaking in the games exe (if this is possible) so the hesitant penalty (up to -6 morale ) wont be applied of course there is the horse archers not shooting while moving thing wich makes the mongols quite NOT MONGOL....

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]The only thing that i can say is that i agree with you... Now as for the solution i think that the thing that can be done is the tweaking in the games exe (if this is possible) so the hesitant penalty (up to -6 morale ) wont be applied of course there is the horse archers not shooting while moving thing wich makes the mongols quite NOT MONGOL....

Excellent sugestion.

As for the question, I agree. The game really benefits direct HtH engagements in detriment of horse skirmishers...

[Random Ronin]

I will never give up hope that the developers will get off their asses and develop a moving cavalry archer code But maybe some of the smartasses around here could beat them to it?

joke

[Ludens]

RTW is going to include the Parthian shot, so this will solve part of the problem. It will also feature larger battle grounds (if TC is any indication), as to make skirmishing more effect. Other than that: the horse archer tactic operates on a tactical as well as a strategical level. Unfortunately, the game separates these levels by the strategic map - battle map distinction. There are numerous problems which will arise when you try to put these together while maintaining essentially the same game. However, it is the job of the developers to overcome these problems. Just let them do that at their own pace.

Please do not accuse them of being biased when they cannot implement every real-life tactic in the way you wish.

[Eastside Character]

I love horse archers. I very often use them to weaken the enemy in some 2 or 3 skirmishes, and only then send an army to take a province.
Morale penalty can be dealt with, and your HA can even gain valor in those lost battles. Number of kills matters, but also the quality of the troops you are aiming at is important.
Peasants are good target practice but it takes really many of them to give you some valor. A way out of this would be decreasing stats of HA, leaving only the speed and maybe boosting morale a bit, along with appropriately modified MTLG stats this should make them gain valor much easier.
I agree, it's a shame they cant shoot while moving, just another limitaion of this game.

Regards,
EC

[Cebei]

I think this will be corrected in the RTW. I've heard too that the famous "parthian shot" (horse archer firing on the move) is in the game. So at least we got A difference between horse archers and foot archers.

The problem is very frustrating. Like Russ said, Ottoman akincis used to raid border provinces as horse archers and then withdraw. Imagine what happens when I do the same thing with my turcoman horse.