like the title says
finally got Gamespy to work and now i need some skills
i noticed my guys ALWAYS run away almost immediately and that ain't fun
i want to know how to make them stop running and how to own in MP. i need extensive hand-on training
if you are interested in training me plz post here with your MSN Messenber contact info preferably
thx
Edit: Thats Gamespy, Navaros...
Welcome to the Jousting Field
Rob The Bastard.
Greetings....the best advice that I can give you is to befriend a few vets or clan members in the foyer and play a few games with them. Then they could probably give you some tips on troop disposition and tactics.
A few tips I can give you might help....personally I always go for valour over upgrades(ranged units excepted) and keep your troops tight in formation as long as you can. By this I mean keep your army as a unit as close to each other as is prudent. Also remember the scissors paper stone philosophy...range kill all... swords kill spears... spears kill cav.... cav kill swords...obviously this is a simplistic tactic and depends on valour/upgrades etc but it is a starting point.
Above all this is a game of flanking so ANY unit behind or to the side of an enemy troop will do well in melee. I try to 'sandwhich' the enemy formations if possible that usually works well and affects the enemy formations nearby with a morale drop.
Hope that's been of assistance
InsaneApache
btw Hi to the guys
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
95% of all the recorded games I download are extremely boring, and consist of cookie cutter armies lining up and charging head long into eachother. I thought this was a game of tact? But, alas, I shouldn't be talking since I dont play online.
To win without risk is to have victory without glory.
Raggs I agree with you. I come from an RTS background and ever since playing Total War i've always been of the opinion that it's mostly just a matter of the computer AI arbitrarily deciding who should win the battle which generally conists of throwing your units at the enemy units. if you try to employ RTS tactics like using great micro do draw fire/bait the enemy then Total War slaps you in the face for doing that by routing your units off the map and saying they were Disenheartened by constant retreat
i've heard many MP players on these boards say that Total War is about tactics therefore i wish to become a master of knowledge in this game to find out with 100% certainty if my opinon at the current time (that Total War is not very strategic at all) is correct or not.
One important thing is to get the right units. That means less running as they are not getting wiped out so fast.
Valor 3 FMAA and valor 2/3 CMAA (for 10k games, +1 valor for 15k) is the most common infantry units and are good for the money. Cavalry is feudal/chiv knights with no upgrades. Get some pavs for missile. There is always some tweaking you can do but you might as well use these units first to learn the game. Try something like 3-4 missile, 5-7 inf and 5-7 cav.
Another thing is support. Units dont like being alone facing many enemies. So understand how morale works..no you dont need to memorize all the modifiers but some general knowledge of the system and you understand why units rout.
MORALE
States
Impetuous: 10 and above
Steady: 2 to 14
Uncertain: -5 to 5
Wavering: -14 to -5
Routing: Less than -6
Rout point is -16 in MTW v1.1, and probably moved to -18 in VI for MP. Routed units will keep routing until their morale rises to -6 or above.
Hitting the rally key pumps +8 morale into the unit.
Impetuous units will pursue enemies for longer, and may disregard orders to hold position. Some troop types may charge without orders.
Uncertain or wavering units which are not fighting are less likely to charge, and those who are fighting are more likely to fall back.
Negative
Loose or disordered formation: -2
Outnumbered 2 to 1: up to -4 (range = about 75 meters)
Outnumbered 10 to 1: up to -12 (range = about 75 meters)
Outclassed in quality and speed: modifies the outnumbered penalty.
One flank threatened: -2 (range = about 60 meters)
Two flanks threatened: -6 (range = about 60 meters
Charged in flank: -4
Infantry charged by cavalry in flank or while disordered: -6
Charged in flank by unit hidden in forest: -8
General's death (for first few seconds): -8 to all his units except highly disciplined units
General's death (after first few seconds): -2 to all his units except highly disciplined units
Routing Friends: up to -12 for seeing 2 equal or higher level friendly units routing. Elite and disciplined units consider lesser types as 1/2 a unit for this calculation.
10% of unit is dead: -2
50% of unit is dead: -8
80% of unit is dead: -12
Taking casualties from enemy missle fire: -2 for a duration less than the reload of the firing unit (additional -4 for gunpowder weapons)
Unit is very tired: -2
Unit is exhausted: -6
Unit is totally exhausted: -8
Losing: Up to -8 (up to -14 if losing to cavalry)
Skirmishing without ammo: -6
Skirmisher pursued for a long distance by equal speed unit: -6
Positive
Two flanks protected: +4
No retreat possible (usually castle sieges): +8
No enemies around: +4
Two enemies routing: up to +8
Uphill Position: +2
Winning: up to +6
Unordered charge: +4 (such as when impetuous knights charge automatically)
Outnumber Enemy 3 to 1: +4
General's unit: +2
Within 50 meters of general: +1 morale per command star
Beyond 50 meters from general: +1 morale per 2 command stars
Archer and xbow open fire range = 100 meters (2.5 tiles)
Normal infantry marching speed is 1.68 m/s (speed 6)
This the list of morale modifiers (with comments made by Yuuki)
And then just plain experience. Takes time to get the feel for the game.... but easier when you have the right units.
Being nice and also willing to listen to advice from other players is important too. There are lots of veterans who will be help if asked.
CBR
The game could easily be better. Spears are not worth much for example.
But it does consist of the basic 3 elements: Cavalry, Infantry and missile. Teamwork is important and terrain makes it more interesting too.
So the tactics of using different units is a bit limited compared to how it could have been but IMO there is still lots of good stuff in the game.
CBR
can you guys explain disordered formation to me? how do i KNOW whether my troops are in a disordered formation or not? and i really don't understand when the game says of certain units best 3 or more ranks deep etc. how do i know how many ranks deep one of my units is?
how do i know if a flank is threatened or not? wouldn't flanks be threatened at any time any enemy attacks a unit that is on the flanks' side? which would be in pretty much every battle ever?
Ok How many Ranks deep is the number of Rows of men deep your unit rectangle is.Originally Posted by [b
So Spearmen and Pikemen are good in a very deep formation because the guys behind the first few rows can still bring their spears into play because they are so long...
Archers are best in a very shallow formation at around 2 or 3 rows/ranks deep, otherwise the guys behind can't see over the heads of the guys in front of them and suffer in accuraccy.
Disordered formation is when you men break formation and fight as an unshapely mob (I am sure you've seen that one sometime).
Ok onto the second point.
A flank being threatened is exactly what you said it was an enemy unit getting in around the side or rear of the unit, potentially in a position to charge home or attack.
Units are happy if thir flanks are protected by another unit so ultimately you have to deoploy your troops in a tight formation to be mutually supportive.
Finally troops gain a morale boost from having their general near them, so always keep him close at hand even if he's just behind your lines shouting support to the troops.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."
1. how do i PREVENT my units from ever moving into a disordered state?
2. what is it that CAUSES disordered formation to happen (ie: if i charge will that disorder my formation?)
3. if i manually drag my unit men into rows instead of leaving them in their default position - will THAT turn
them into a disordered formation?
4. what are ALL THE THINGS what will disorder your formation?
5. how do i CHECK THE STATUS of if my formation is disordered or not in the middle of a battle?
6. what is the number + of morale boost of the general being near your units, and how near does he have to be in number of metres for this boost to work?
By giving them time to reform when they have just stopped fighting or running, or when changing the unit facing. This is especially important for spearmen. Don't give last-second formation-change orders to your spearmen.
You get disordered formation if there are gaps in the formation. These can be caused by casualties (try looking at spearunits who have fought for a long time without regrouping) and to a lesser extent running over long distances.
No. But you don't want your men reforming when they are about to be attacked.
Again: casualties, and to lesser extent move orders, without giving the unit time to regroup.
Look at the unit. If there are large holes in the frontline (i.e. the frontline is broken and individual men get flanked), the unit is in trouble.
See CBR's list.
Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!
If the use of maa is commonplace online, why not make your army completely cavalry? That makes the arbs and MAA next to usless... Not to mention you get far superior manuverability, I mean...you SHOULD be able to come around behind then with a unit or 2. I have seen ONE battle with unique style, and that was that one with mass horse archers, which was one awesome game. The rest were line up, shoot your arbs at their arbs for 2 minutes then charge in head first with everything.
To win without risk is to have victory without glory.
IIRC the morale bonus for generals is only for SP.
Dont worry too much about disordered units. A unit can take a lot of abuse before it turns into a disordered mob. And it can quickly reform.
I would say that its mostly when a unit is running/persuing that you will get that disordered formation. A quick formation change or turning wont effect the unit for long.
CBR
Most of the games are team games and you wont get the kind of room for action like this. You're right that the cav would work best for flanking, but as far as head-on fighting goes the swords simply dominate. Swords become the most cost-effective unit for head-on fighting once you get above the 7-8k florin range. Missiles are also very useful. There will be stalemate games where pavs just fire at one another, but they are also a great tool for shaping the front line. Victories in the pav war can curl your opponents' line up, gaining your team control over how the melee will be fought. Not taking pavs and just rushing can make you predictable. If you'd like added action to the pav war, seek out 2v2 games and Early era games. There's room in those for higher levels of skirmishing.
I also want to make some suggestions for making good relations with the people in this community. These suggestions may seem pretty silly and insignificant, but I feel they make a difference here. This is not like other game communities. From my observations, the mentality is similar to that of a small, rural town. Everybody knows everybody and politeness and tradition are respected. To gain their respect, first impressions are key. Try to hold back on the counter-strike/FPS/internet slang. Many will consider it to be inappropriate for such a civilized community. We like to consider ourselves above those who jump around shooting a rocket launcher typing sophomoric insults using numbers instead of letters. It never hurts to use perfect grammar and spelling. The question wat r the best soldiers is not going to get as much replies as What is the best infantry unit. Training takes some effort from both people involved, and many wont bother if you dont care enough to type properly.
"Never in physical action had I discovered the chilling satisfaction of words. Never in words had I experienced the hot darkness of action. Somewhere there must be a higher principle which reconciles art and action. That principle, it occurred to me, was death." -Yukio Mishima
actually in my first multiplayer game i ever played of Total War i took Italians and i only brought 4 units of Gothic Knight Cav with v4. i had some {Crusader} guys as my allies, and we totally whomped the enemy; who each brought a full army.
altho in later games with me trying to use this same all-cav strat, it did not turn out so well. LOL
so you guys are telling me that charging with my units will disorder their formation?
how do i MAKE my guys re-form during a battle; when they are already engaged?
is it better to usually just wait around and let the enemy come to me in a battle so that my formation will not get disordered?
Hmmmm, always get the full 16 units Navaros. Pumping up 3 or 4 units and charging them into the fray will not win you any battles. Granted, your uberunit can take on a single unit of your opponent with ease, but for each of your units he will have 4 and he WILL use them too.
Right on Kongamoto
Navaros,
I really do not worry that much about the ordered/disordered state. It can become a factor when your unit is chasing an enemy and gets flanked by another unit. What is important is to flank the enemy and to not get flanked by them. Remember the units get a little bonus for charging.
It is not best to just wait around. Usually in team games there is a discussion of strategy. It is best to double (or slightly outnumber) one of your opponents, not let anyone on your team get doubled.
ichi
Stay Calm, Be Alert, Think Clearly, Act Decisively
CoH
yeah, going with full 16 units is recommended, spread valor out also.
V4 units are not really that cost effective, esp. heavy cav.
to have only 4 units is a bit crazy.
going with 12 pumped up units though can sometimes pay dividends.
Junior patrons can now reply to topics in the MP forums.
Moved to Jousting Fields.
Ja mata
TosaInu
Not much I can ad to this thread. Some guys have played the total war games for 3 years now. Also, The TW community (at least MP) has a very large number of "ahum" more mature players (20-40 or even beyond that).
They know a lot, life experience and game experience. If you respect them, they will respect you.
Look for the famous clans and/or ronins, and ask for help. Im sure you will get some....
Sulla
A good general must love his army, A great general must be able to order the death of the thing he loves.....
hehe ichi
i like the politically correct version of doubling a playeroutnumber indeed :)
have fun all
HighFist
UglyFist
" Paradise Is In The Shadow Of Swords "
Disordered is anytime the men in the unit are not lined up in neat rows. The best way to stay ordered is to walk straight ahead. In general, that means making any lateral or rotational moves with your army before getting within engagement range of the enemy, that is a range where you can be attacked before your army finishes the move. Of greater concern about these kinds of moves is that many individual unit flanks can be exposed during the move, and if a unit is charged in the flank not only do you get a big morale penalty, but the enemy gets a big combat bonus which means your unit usually takes heavy losses and then routs.
To visualize what constitutes a unit's flank imagine an X with four equal quadrants drawn over the unit. The flag bearer is at the center of the X facing one of the 90 degree quadrants. Let's say he's facing up in this case. The unit has 3 flanks: right, left and rear. An enemy unit within one of those quadrants and within about 75 meters of the unit's flag bearer "flanks" your unit and gives it the -2 morale penalty unless your unit's flank is "covered". Covered means you have a second unit positioned close by but not to the front of the first unit's threatened flank. I don't remember how far away a protecting unit can be before protection is lost, but I don't think it's more than something like 25 meters of space between the units. In addition, any of your units that have their flanks "covered" get morale bonuses. I think it's +2 morale for one flank covered and +4 morale for two flanks covered. In multiplayer, the general always has zero command stars, and only acts like a standard unit covering a flank for morale purposes as far as I can tell. The facing of an enemy unit on your flank doesn't matter for flanking purposes. However, the enemy unit will itself be flanked if your unit falls outside the enemy's front facing quadrant. One flank threatened is only -2 morale, but two flanks threatened is -6 morale.
The major morale effects to be concerned about early on are being greatly outnumbered in quality and quantity, seeing friendly units rout and death of your general. Later in the battle, units suffering more than 50% casualties, units that are exhasted and units that take casualties from guns have lowered morale and are likely to rout on one or two additional casualties.
_________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.
Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2
navaros i enjoy training people so if you catch me on the vi server ask and aslong as im not doing anything else i would happily train you :)
and tosa highfist puzz and ichi should you feel the need ill happily train you as well ;)
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Hi Nav,
Like Yuuk says, don't worry about the Ordered/Disordered states, that is about the most minor consideration.
Valor is the most important upgrade to a unit...
In general, don't waste Valor upgrades on units you don't expect to be in hand-to-hand fighting.
HOWEVER, this game is all about morale (flanking/rear attacks) thus, pumped up units rarely win when being double-teamed by 2 other units. Therefore, it is usually better to have more Units than a few power units. Get 16 Units if you can, and then selective upgrade.
This is also the idea behind multi-play... If me and my ally attack your army by itself, you have 16 units max. We will have my 16 units + whatever my ally helps me with... Thus you are outnumbered. You don not have enough units to be able to stop us from sending our extra units into your flanks and rear. You lose. Numbers of units make that much difference.
----------------
Like many have said, don't let units get isolated by themselves and doubled. Single units flee fast.
------------------
For your ARMY, don't let it get clumped into a big mass... you'll die every time.
Don't let your army as a whole be flanked... turning ur army into a big round mob inevitably exposes flanks.
Retreat? Hell, we're just attacking in a different direction...
THE DEADLY SHINGEN
Navaros, I'm happy to run you through some drills...let me know when you are usually online.
Hunter_Bachus
Same here, drop me an email/MSN: katsujin_ken@hotmail.com
I'll do what I can to help.
If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.
http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/__shak
Hi Nav..
I think Morale and in later stages of a game Fatigue is most important..
So choose Valour for morale..
For Fatigue..dont run if not necessary..try regroup and rest to 2 bars fatigue.
My advice is to play much and also save replays to see what u did right/wrong..also ask your fellow gamers online..you gonna find some1 thats help you..
If you want to know why you routed Navaros, just send me the replay of one of your matches. I will see if I can tell what caused your men to run.
I am kind of the King of the Routing Army, since I have probably lost more games in MP than anyone. I also, have incorporated it into a 4v4 team strategy, which sounds odd, but true. :)
My email is el-marko@insightbb.com. Or if you want to check out a group of guys from most of the clans in MTW & VI go to http://www.ugli.org. Register for the site and you will have access to all the forums. Ask away and several people there will help you.
I have seen the future of TW MP and it is XBox Live!
ugli.org that sounds nice.............
"The mind is everything. What you think you become."
"The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed."
Buddha
Sounds kind of like a porn site for Ugly people LOL :) We promise there is no nudity at the ugli.org cause we haven't found a "wide-angle" lens with a wide enough field of vision to cover our large posteriors
I have seen the future of TW MP and it is XBox Live!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks