hungrian units

[vlad_demstra]

I'm looking for info maybe on new units for hungrians. if any of you got any ideas please tell :P and links would be great as well.. thanks.. o is it possible to have long bows on horses? i think that would be interasting and deadly :O) i dont know if they did historicaly (sp?) but would be interasting to see.

[Plantagenet]

Magyar horse archers used composite bows (sometimes called "Avar bows"), that, while shorter than longbows, could be drawn further than other "short" bows. Also no "bowstring slap", which is they didn't wear bracers or other hand/arm protection. They generally wore 2 belts; 1 held their saber and the other a "hip" bowcase & quiver. I think they were basically equivalent to Avar, Hun, Mongol, etc., horse archers.

I would also guess that using a longbow on horseback was impossible (length, draw, stability). England used mounted longbowmen during the Hundred Years War, but they never fought from horseback; they were mounted to provide mobility for chevauchees and such, but they weren't "horse archers".

During the reign of Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa (1152-1190), "Hungarian Archers" were considered elite. The King of Hungary sent hundreds of them into Italy with the Austrian contingent of the imperial army to fight for Barbarossa. Whether they were mounted or not isn't specified by the Emperor's chronicler Otto of Freising, but knowing the Medieval Hungarians, its a safe guess that they were.

[vlad_demstra]

Thanks.. do you have any links or such on this type of info?

[katank]

yeah, longbows are impossible to draw on horseback. they could be the use horse to travel and then dismount to fight type of soldiers.

composite bows are definitely used on horseback though and has similar power and range.

they were good horsemen and fought cav heavy enemies. wes gave hungarian nobles an anti bonus and allowed szekelys to carry lance, shield, and bow

[vlad_demstra]

Magyar horse archers

Hungarian Archers

szekely

I would like one more if any one could think one one more unit for me to add :) I've been reading one some of the unit times and such and home to get a hungarian mod going here some time soon


edit: yes if decided to stick with it even tho it fusterates me to the point i want to throw the comp out the window.

[Plantagenet]

Quote[/b] (vlad_demstra @ Mar. 12 2004,18:19)]Thanks.. do you have any links or such on this type of info?

On the Hungarian archers that fought in Italy with Frederick I, see "The Deeds of Frederick Barbarossa" by Otto of Freising (in English translation).

http://www.wargamesdirectory.com/html....ult.asp
http://www.atarn.org/magyar/magyar_1.htm
http://www.redkaganate.org/tribelist/magyar.shtml (at bottom of page is section on arms & armor, and below that his sources).

Most of what I posted pertained to the early Magyars, who fought as light cavalry/horse archers. But after their decisive defeat by Otto I the Great at the Battle of the Lechfeld (955), they settled down, accepted Christianity, and became more open to Western influence. Several German Emperors thereafter invaded Hungary, and frequent contact with German knights resulted in the development of Hungarian heavy "knightly" cavalry (lance & sword). These were primarily the nobility, so proportion of heavy cav. would be smaller than in German and other Western armies. But add the German settlers in the west and Transylvania, Slavs in Slovakia, Slovenia, & Croatia, the Szekelys, Cumans, etc., and the Hungarians ended up with a wide range of troop types from several different nationalities. So they'd make a very interesting historical campaign.

[Nomad]

A few ideas
Generalis Exercitus or Skeltera
a mass levy of all lesser Noblemen of Hungary.
The Banderium.
The decline in the Generalis Exercitus led to the forming of The Banderium or the Noble's armed following. These retinues were originally made up of kinsmen called Familiaris or Servientes but later these bloodties gave way and they became known as Vexillum.
The Militia Portalis
born out of attempts to reorganise and reform the general levy. It first appeared in documents of 1397
Saxons of Sibui.
or any kind of Saxon foot levy from the Transylvania area
Hunyadi Banderia.
The majority of Janos Hunyadi's foot were ex-Hussite troops from Bohemia more professional and drawn often from mercanry elements.
Transylvanian or Szekly foot archers
Theoretically the Generalis Exercitus was an entirely mounted levy however Italian sources describe significant numbers of foot soldiers carrying composite bows and sabres.
also check out medmod. Wes' has got alot of good units in there Bashtina, Clipeati, Armati, knights of the Banderium etc.
Tabors(warwagons)would be good. think they might be appearing in the BKBSuperHigh mod.

Nomad

[Russ Mitchell]

This is my research specialty. I have to work on stuff for Wes (as soon as I decipher his last email), but an East-Central European mod in general would be neat, and I would be more than happy to help you: it is ABSOLUTELY dependent on period, as Hungary went through massive changes.