Fury of the Northmen Mod

[Sebastian Seth]

@Wilpuri
Have you given any tought about Kaski farming? Thats basicly the
only kind of farming there was in finland and it was very efficient.
I read something like when normal farming earns 5 aer from 1,
the Kaski earns 25 aer from 1. Should we replace finnish farming
as Kaskeaminen or place Kaski farming and late form of farming?

[Wario]

about crosbows,

Duely noted. You do realize that this mod spans from roughly 750-1050 ad?

until the 1100 ad (i mean until,so i dont think they have loots of them in 750-1050 ad) there are only rare facts of the crosbows (warchiefs and other royals).But then in 1170 (plus-minus) some german qrosbow master from the livonian cruisaiders join the semigalians and train the most of infrantary how to use qrosbows.Poor germans curse then the qrosbowmaster becouse he "join the satan".Btw in Medieval TW Livonia and Lithuania is Ortodox culure ,thats a big bug for last pagans in europe.sorry for oftopic.
So there can be units type like "royal qrosbowmens" 12 0r 20 units maybe or
nosmal unit size if only for semigalians (they strong trade have with bizantyum and germans ) royal mountained qrosbowmens ,but no historical facts about that.
More units can be Semigalian cavalery and Curonian swordsmens.Becouse in lots of militar like cronicles about that region always Are somenting like:"they have best horses "and "Brave man with best swords" .Also there was a honor for diplomats from europe send to Viking Konungs as a gifts a Curonian swords.
And interesting unit can be "Houndface" (somenting like fanatics) Crazy degradated mans who eat human flesh after battle.So the point was if you show to enemy that "houndface" they dont wanna fight in this battle ,becouse if they die like heroes and houndface eat theyr heart they newer go to place where are they elders. But only lowest infrantay types fears them.Actualy i think they are next generations of "Free axemans" who live wery isolated. (there was a cronicle about some fight " Houndfaces screaming from the forest close to enemy in the night ,and dont give chance to enemy for rest before nextday fight , when they try to kill them they are ambushed from the back becouse they focuse only on the terrible screams.And so Hounfaces have a good meal then". I think not more than 12 units ,wery weak but terrorize the enemy .(what a exselent target for archers :)
I try to search for more interesting info.

[thrashaholic]

@ Wilpuri,

Yes I agree, Welsh can look pretty daunting to the uninitiated (I'm not that initiated myself and still get pretty scared when confronted with Welsh words and names, like Rhosllanerchrugog or Ysbyty Ystwyth ), but Welsh is a completely phonetic language, so it's pretty easy to work out (much harder to actually say though ).

Anyway, a quick guide to Welsh pronunciation for all that are interested:

The Welsh alphabet has 29 letters. A few letters used in English (namely k, q, v, x, and z) and are replaced by some uniquely Welsh letters ( namely 'ch', 'dd', 'ff', 'ng', 'ph', 'rh', and 'th'). The vowels are also different in Welsh, in addittion to the standard 'aeiou' 'w' and 'y' are also considered vowels.

a: Sometimes long as in 'start'
Sometimes short as in 'man'
b: As in 'butter'
c: As in 'cat
ch: As in 'Loch Ness' or 'Johann Sebastian Bach'
d: As in dad
dd: Pronounced as the English "th", as in 'this'
e: Sometimes long, as in the "a" in 'sale'
Sometimes short, as in the "e" in 'hell'
f: Pronounced as the English "v", as in 'love'
ff: Pronouced like "ph" in English, as in 'Elephant'
g: As in 'give'
h: As in 'hand'
i: Sometimes long, as in the double "e" in 'greed'
Sometimes short as in 'pin'
j: as the English "j" (foreigners always have trouble with this )
l: as in 'laugh'
ll: This is a unique letter to Welsh and must be learned. Put the tip of your tongue against the roof of your mouth and explode the breath out with a partial hiss (all while the tongue is touching the top of your mouth)
m: As in 'mud'
n: As in 'night'
ng: As in 'hang'
o: Sometimes long as in 'shore'
Sometimes short as in 'not'
p: As in 'pencil'
ph: As the English "ph"
r: as in 'pram'
rh: Pronouce as r + h. The "r" as above followed by a strong breath
s: as in 'sun'
t: as in 'ton'
th: as English "th"
u: Pronounced as the double "e" in 'greed'
w: Sometimes long, as the double "o" in 'fool'
Sometimes short, as the double "o" in 'book'
y: Sometimes pronouced as the double "e" in 'greed'
Sometimes pronouced as the "i" in 'pin'
Sometimes obscure like the "u" in 'funny'

Then there are the Dipthongs (Two vowels in combination)

'ae', 'ai', 'au' : all pronounced as in 'eye'
'ei', 'eu', 'ey' : all pronounced like 'hay', but without the "h"
'aw' : simply, "aa + ww"
'ew' : like the "e" in 'bet' immediately followed by the double "o" sound in 'fool'
'iw', 'yw' : Pronouced like 'yew'
'wy' : like the French 'oui'. oo+ee
'oe', 'ou', 'oi' : like 'oil', but without the 'l'

So there we have it, easy really :

Cymru is pronounced 'kumree'
Ryfelwyr is pronouced 'ri-velweer'
Bonheddwyr is pronounced 'bonhethweer'
Arwrweision is pronounced 'ar-oor-way-seeon'

I hope this helps

[Meneldil]

Well, the Frankish/Normans and western mercenaries list is ready. I can send it to anyone who wants (though there are no pics yet, and I've not been adding some units cause Frankish won't be a playable faction).

[PseRamesses]

Well, the Frankish/Normans and western mercenaries list is ready. I can send it to anyone who wants (though there are no pics yet, and I've not been adding some units cause Frankish won't be a playable faction).

Nice going Meneldil. First post it here for the rest of the community to view and comment on. Then, when finished, you can post it to me pse@brevet.se

[Wario]

What languages you can speak? We are at the
moment limited at english, finnish and swedish knowledge of
that area?

I can take Latvian (Semigalians ,Curonians names etc.) and Lithuanian languages on me.
I dont know if i now more than you about english, finnish and swedish history at the moment but icheck out all my materials.

There's going to be a baltic pagan religion. In the Finno-Ugric area.
and 6 factions in that religion. And it's under debate if theres gona
be pagan shamans as priests of that religion. Does this sound correct

No they are wery far from shamans ,closer to druids - "Zintnieki" aka "Knowledgemans".

Is there native name for these thunder sons?

"Peerkondeeli" (Thundersons) or "Peerkona deeli" (sons of thunder)
They are not like berserker becouse they are wery diciplined.

Also in baltic regions always in wars must be "Livland mercenaries"
They fight in all sides if you have a money ,even against his own country.

[wilpuri]

Wario, you are what exactly what I've been hoping for! A Balt with some insight into baltic history and understanding of the language, culture etc! It would be great if you would be willing to help us out! If you give me your email address, I could send you the Baltic name list and the Baltic unit roster, so you could look at it and help me with working on it, I'm sure you have some great sources and ideas that a non-balt would miss. What do you say, do you want to become part of the team and help us give the baltic peoples the representation they deserve in this mod?

The name "knowledgeman" or Zintniekim sounds VERY similar to the Finno-Ugric "Wisemen", don't let the term shaman confuse you. The Finnic wisemen were indeed much like druids, they were the collective meroy and history of the tribe, their lore was great, and they were the spiritual authority of the community and performed the religious rites.

Concerning the god Perkunas (Isn't that were Perkoondeeli comes from?) was also a god adopted by the Finnic peoples, and the name has survived to this day as a curse word and a word for the "devil": Perkele (I'm sure our Swedish friends have heard it before ) May be we could have something similar for the Finnic factions?

It sounds extremely interesting, and it would be really great if you could help us out with the Baltic factions.

[PseRamesses]

Wario, you are what exactly what I've been hoping for! A Balt with some insight into baltic history and understanding of the language, culture etc! It would be great if you would be willing to help us out! What do you say, do you want to become part of the team and help us give the baltic peoples the representation they deserve in this mod?

Wilpuri, I fully support you on this initiative. I was actually gonna send Wario a PM inviting him to join us.
It would be great if you, Wario, would help us out on this matter, making you our "Marshall in the Baltics", so to speak. Now, we do respect our crews personal life so we´ll never ask anything more of you than you decide to take upon yourself. As you know we haven´t set a releasedate for this mod due to our 2nd objective: to portray the viking era the best way possible and I do belive we could use a resource like you in this area of the map. Our third aim, when working with this mod, is to have a hell of a good time doing this. So when you no longer feel you want to be a part of this, or take a break, just let us know - no problem.

[Meneldil]

Well, I'm currently not at home, so I'll post it tomorrow at about 8 PM (French hours).
Anyway, units description is probably not that great, mostly because my english is not that great

[Meneldil]

Good news people.
I've managed to create a new unit (based on an existing one). Well, that wasn't that hard, and I still have to learn how to change weapons (which should be that hard too).

Any help in the process would be nice :)

[Sebastian Seth]

Good news people.
I've managed to create a new unit (based on an existing one). Well, that wasn't that hard, and I still have to learn how to change weapons (which should be that hard too).

Any help in the process would be nice :)

Did you draw the unit graphics or rename the files? I'll try to comprehend
the structure of the units in game but this may take a while.

[Meneldil]

I've only renamed and created a new file. Now, I'd like to add new weapons to this unit.

[Meneldil]

Western/Eastern Franks army list:

Here’s an army list for both Frankish factions, and possibly for the Polish:

I made this list with both my Warhammer ancient battle – shieldwall army list and my Osprey book – French medieval armies 1000-1300. The second one is often out of the timeframe, and almost all the units listed here are from the WHB – shieldwall book.
I’ve added some units that could be recruited as mercenaries (Stipendarii, Italian crossbowmen, though there could be many more like Basque warriors, Spanish jinetes, welsh auxiliaries, or cottereaux) and some province restricted units (Flemish spearmen, Breton devroet and Norman units).
I was thinking about adding a few other units like ‘Men of the Marches’ (a kind of crusader knight unit), Paladins (King Charlemagne’s best knights), a French and a German Knight and a kind of heavy axemen (who used francista), but since Franks aren't playable, I guess they are not needed.
Another thing is that my english is *far* from perfect, and sorry for any inconvenience like typo, grammatical errors and things like that.

Comes: Comes were part of the higher Frankish nobility, they were the king’s most important vassals. What distinguished them from the other members of the nobility was that they had their own vassals, loyal to them personally. When a Comes was granted land by the King, his part of the deal was that he would bring a certain number of knights to the battlefield when summoned. They were often used as the king’s elite bodyguards, or were asked to lead batailles (battlefield divisions) during important battles.

Units of 15 men
Armed with spears
Armoured
Irresistible charge
High moral
Impetuous
May charge without orders

Milites: Milites are the backbones of Frankish armies. They are fearsome warriors, and as cavalrymen, their skills are only matched by the Katraphraktoi and by the Normans knights.
Like many other knights, their arrogance might sometimes be a problem, and might aswell lead them in dangerous situations.

Unit of 40 men
Elite unit
Armed with spears
Armoured
Large shield
Irresistible charge
High moral
Impetuous
May charge without orders
May dismount before battle

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19258

Milites pedites: While they mostly fight as heavy cavalry, Milites are sometimes dismounted and used as heavy infantry. Though they may not be as effective as mounted Milites, they are a very effective heavy infantry. Protected by heavy armours and large shields, and armed with swords and axes, they are probably the best infantry a Frankish king could lead to the battle.

Unit of 40 men
Bonus vs. armoured troops
Elite unit
Armoured
Large shield
High moral
Impetuous
May charge without orders
Slow

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19257

Pueri: Pueri are light cavalry, mostly used to scout out the enemy positions and troop strengths, as well as to take care of skirmishers and light infantry. Unlike milites, pueri aren’t part of the high nobility, but rather poor knights or squires.

Unit of 40 men
Powerful charge
Armed with throwing spears
Missiles effective against armour
Fast

Liberi: Liberi are lesser warriors. Though they can stand a fight against more professional warriors, they are mainly used to make the number, and to support the heavy Frankish cavalry during long fights (which was unlikely to happen, since the Milites’ charge was often enough to break the enemy). Liberi usually use spears and shields or bows.

Liberi (spearmen):
Unit of 100 men
Powerful charge
Armed with spears
Large shield
Weak attack
Weak defence
Effective against cavalry
Can fight on 2 ranks

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19256

Liberi (archers):
Unit of 66 men
Good attack
Weak defence
Poor moral

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19255

Coloni: Coloni are nothing else than quickly-trained peasants. They are not really good at fighting, but they can form a cheap and useful militia in times of need.

Same thing as peasants from MTW

Here are some Normans, Britons and Flemish special units:

Norman Milites: Norman knights are probably the finest cavalry of the era. They learnt how to use lance when fighting as mercenaries for the Byzantines, but unlike Byzantine cavalry who used to charge at a brisk trot, Normans usually enter the fight at the highest speed possible, wreaking havoc in their enemy’s ranks, which usually lead to a quick victory.

Unit of 40 men
Armed with spears
Irresistible charge
High moral
Elite unit
Large shield
Heavily armoured
Impetuous
May charge without orders

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19259

PS: The use of the cavalry lance + high speed charge was probably not used before the mid/late 10th century, so I don’t know if they should have the irresistible charge. It’s up to you, though I think it would make Norman knights a nice unit.

Norman infantry (I have no idea if this unit is totally correct, but I know that while Franks were sometimes warring with cavalry armies only, Normans were rather using both infantry and cavalry, so I think it might be a good idea): Unlike franks who were mostly relying on their heavy cavalry and on their archers, Normans used both infantry and cavalry to win battles. Norman, having blood from both Vikings and franks, can form a superb infantry, a good combination of Frankish warfare and Vikings warlike.

Unit of 100 men
Armoured
Strong charge
High moral
Elite unit
Large shield
Impetuous
May charge without orders
Bonus vs. armoured troops

Devroet: Devroet means literally Breton exile. Whereas Brittany wasn’t actually a part of the Frankish empire, Britons were often used in both Normans and Frankish armies. They are famous for their horsemanship and are used as an effective medium cavalry, used to support heavier cavalry or infantry, or to rout enemy skirmishers or light infantry.

Unit of 40 men
Armed with spears and javelins
Very strong charge
Missiles effective vs. armoured troops
Good moral

Flemish spearmen: The county of Flanders is nominally a part of the Western Frank Empire. In fact, the county was often warring against the French king, and quickly became a semi-independent province. To protect Flanders from attacks from both Normans and Frankish armies, Flemish lords had to train professional warriors, which could defend themselves against the heavy cavalry they often had to fight. Those warriors were also often hired as mercenaries in west Europe.

Unit of 100 men
Armed with spears
Large shields
Very effective against cavalry
Powerful charge
Good moral
Good defence

Stipendarii: Mercenary knights are often recruited from all over north-west Europe, as well as Spain and Italy. Stipendarii is the name of those mercenary groups, often composed of fallen knights, fighting sometimes for glory, and often for money. These skilled warriors spend their time fighting for wealthy lords and kings and are a good and reliable cavalry, as well as an effective medium infantry.

Mounted stipendarii:
Unit of 60 men
Armed with spears
Fast
Powerful charge
Bonus versus armoured troop
Poor moral

Stipendarii pedites:
Unit of 60 men
Good attack
Bonus versus armoured troops
Poor moral

A pic that could be used for Stipendarii, though it's supposed to be a spanish mercenary knight from the XIIIth century :
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19463

Italian crossbowmen: Italian crossbowmen are considered as the best long range infantry a Christian lord could hire. Crossbow is a fearsome weapon that can easily kill a man in a single shot, and unlike long and composite bows, it can be used effectively after a few days of training. One thing is certain; mercenaries from Italia are famous for their use of the crossbow.

Unit of 60 men
Good attack
Long range
Weak defence
Slow rate of fire
Slow
Bonus vs. armoured troop
Poor moral

PS: I did not find any source mentioning Italian crossbowmen mercenaries before the late 10th century as well. Once again, it’s up to you if you want to add them or not.

29/09/2004
Here's a map of Normandy (about 1100 AD, but that's the only one I found so far)

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19456

Here's another one of the merovingian empire (it might be more accurate).

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19458

The same map with provinces

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=19459

My thoughts about the provinces are :
Britanny, Normandy, Anjou (or Maine), Flanders, Ardennes (or Champagne), Toxandrie, Saxe, Thuringie and Ile de France, or however you call the unattackable province (the one in the south)

[PseRamesses]

PS: I did not find any source mentioning Italian crossbowmen mercenaries before the late 10th century as well. Once again, it’s up to you if you want to add them or not.

Outstanding research Meneldil! Regarding CB´s before the 10th century I´m personally a bit sceptic but on the other hand I´m no historian. Has anyone else any intel on thehistory of crossbows? Any tip could be useful. Thanks!

[Meneldil]

"Crossbows were actively being used in European warfare from 800 to 1500 A.D."
from
Wikipedia
It's not the best source ever, but usually, what they say isn't total crap

[Sebastian Seth]

@Medeldil

\unit_prod.txt - The unit setting
\Projectilestats.rxt - projectile settings

Battle\UnitIcons\(unitref).tga - little battle icon of unit
campmap\Info_Pics\(unitref).bif - background of unit info
Textures\Men\(bodyref)\(bodyref).bif - body & weapon pictures
Textures\Men\(bodyref)\(bodyref)_H.bif - body & weapon pictures
Textures\Men\ActionsPage\unitref.txt - action & image linking
Textures\Men\ActionsDiddy\unitref.txt - action & image linking

The unit_prodfile refers to "work sheet" and
"unit def sheet" and I haven found these
yet. Could you tell me where they are?

The last two are full of numbers I have
difficulties to understand. Do you have
some understanding about them?

Is the list of directories missing some?

[Sebastian Seth]

@Wilpuri

I have started do to some preliminary work for the tech tree.

1. First we have to have the castles (to point the tech level).

lvl.0 ... Travel House ... A place where hunting trips start.
lvl.1 ... Traiding Post ... A place where hunters trade goods.
lvl.2 ... Village ... Permanent simple place of population.
lvl.3 ... Stockade ... First defensive fortification.
lvl.4 ... Hill Fotification ... Serious defensive fortification
lvl 5 ... Stone Castle ... The last and most serious fortifications

2. Some defensive addons to castles: (tied to castle lvl)

lvl.2 ... Refuge Caves ... Place where women and children go.
lvl.3 ... Spikes ... Wooden spikes to protect from charging
lvl.4 ... Mount ... Dig and spikes around the fortification
lvl.5 ... Rock Throwers ... Like catapults but throwing many little rocks

3. Govermentical Buildings: (loosely tied to castle lvl)

lvl.0 ... Hunting Huts ... For organizasing major hunts (animal & human)
lvl.2 ... Chieftains House ... Title: Chieftain of (faction)
lvl.4 ... "Käräjät" ... Title: Tuomari of (faction)

I'm little out of ideas in this area. Mayby you have some ideas.

4. Religional Buildings: (loosely tied to castle lvl)
lvl.0 ... Wall paintings ... Mystic pictures on caves.
lvl.2 ... Shamans House ... Place where shaman lives.
lvl.4 ... "Hiidenkivi" ... Pagan peak building

These could have moral +1,+2,+3 effects and they should enamble
the shamans and should be required to produce battlefield shamans.

5. Farms. (Not tied to castle lvl, tied to resource WOOD)
lvl.1 ... wood cutters hut ... place to organize wood gathering
lvl.3 ... Kaskifarming ... the higly productive kaskifarms

We need more of these structures. Source of income.

6. Fishing. (Not tied to castle lvl, tied to resource FISH)
lvl.1 ... Fish traps ... the standard fish traps
lvl.3 ... river nets ... huge nets across the rivers.

We need more of these too. source or income.

7. Horses. (tied to castle lvl and resource HORSES)
lvl.1 ... Horse Stables
lvl.3 ... Horse Farmer
lvl.5 ... Horse breeder

8. Tanner (tied to castle level)
lvl.2 ... Tanner ... Armour +1
lvl.3 ... Tanners house ... Armour +2
lvl.4 ... Tannery ... Armour +3

The armours where leather so this could be good.'

9 ports:
lvl.1 ... Seaport .... trade (needs "Traiding Post")
lvl.2 ... boat builder .... basic boats more trade
lvl.3 ... slipway .... bigger boats (needs "Village")
lvl.5 .... Shipwright .... The best boats (needs "Stone Castle")

and ofcourse the Bowmakers, Spearmakers, Smiths, Alerting towers,
basic farms and all i havent yeat think of.

How does it look so far?

@Wario

How does this fit to the baltics? (Don't mind the titles they can be
changed)

[wilpuri]

Looks quite good. I would remove the "Shaman's house" and may be replace it with "Uhrilehto", a site which has been declared sacred by the shaman. Uhrilehto would give the title of "Tietäjä", which I have posted earlier in the thread. I don't think we will need that many buildings for horses, since the Finns only have access to 2 types of cavalry, and the baltic factions have access to one calvalry unit (at the moment anyway).

Concerning Hill forts, they were not a permanent place of settlements. They were only used when attacked. Also, Hill forts were used for launching points of attacks, so may be this could be represented somehow? The raiding "crusade" would be great, if it is possible? A hill fort would enable pagan jihads/raiding campaigns..

Also, I think two Boatbuilder type buildings is enough, since Baltic/Finnic factions only have access to 2 types of boat. (Small Boat and Uisko).

Battlefield Shamans sounds very fantasy like, since each village had no more than a few shamans probably. Besides, we already have the Finnish Berserkers (Can you think of a good name in Finnish for them?)

On the whole it looks good, SS. We have to get this represented more visually, on an actual Tech-tree chart. However, I have exams all week, so I don't have much time on my hands right now

I've also been formulating this idea: Instead of having watch towers, The Finnish factions and the Estonian factions should have Warning Beacons, which were lit to warn of danger. May be Vaaravalkea or Vartiotuli or something similar in Finnish?

[Sebastian Seth]

Looks quite good. I would remove the "Shaman's house" and may be replace it with "Uhrilehto", a site which has been declared sacred by the shaman. Uhrilehto would give the title of "Tietäjä", which I have posted earlier in the thread.

Yes, this is good. I'll mark it up instantly.

I don't think we will need that many buildings for horses, since the Finns only have access to 2 types of cavalry, and the baltic factions have access to one calvalry unit (at the moment anyway).

I was thinking that the level 5 buildings shouldn't produce more units exept
some very special ones, but more likely give morale, valour or weapon
bonuses to units. Or mayby if possible: faster horses.

Concerning Hill forts, they were not a permanent place of settlements. They were only used when attacked. Also, Hill forts were used for launching points of attacks, so may be this could be represented somehow?

How does this sound?
(lvl - fort building . .. fort addon "level referance word")
0 - Travel House ... Guard Posts "savage"
1 - Traiding Post ... Guard Towers "trading"
2 - Hamlet ... Cave Refuge "culture"
3 - Village ... Hill Fort "Village"
4 - Stockade ... Stone Towers "City"
5 - Stone Bastion ... Kings Keep "Capital"

The raiding "crusade" would be great, if it is possible? A hill fort would enable pagan jihads/raiding campaigns..

Yes, if it's possible. But if we seperate Hill Fort to an addon it would be
better to use hiidenkivi as jihad starter. That way the Tietäjä and
Jihad would come from same line of building type.

Also, I think two Boatbuilder type buildings is enough, since Baltic/Finnic factions only have access to 2 types of boat. (Small Boat and Uisko).

Oh, my bad. I have seemed to mix up the "sea-trading" category with
"ship building" category. and I have later added "fishing" category too.

lvl. "sea-trading" "ship building" "fishing"
0 - - Fish Traps
1 Docks - -
2 - Boat Builder River Nets
3 Seaport - -
4 - Shipwright Offshore Fishing
5 Merchant - -

Docks and Hamlet enables Boat builder and Boat builder, seaport and
stockade enables shipwright.
Boat builder enables small boats and ship builder "Uisko".
Sea-traiding creates trading income and fishing creates fishing income.

Battlefield Shamans sounds very fantasy like, since each village had no more than a few shamans probably. Besides, we already have the Finnish Berserkers (Can you think of a good name in Finnish for them?)

I actualy meant the berserkers and talked about shamans. My bad (again).

(Can you think of a good name in Finnish for them?)

No better than you allready did:

Concerning the god Perkunas (Isn't that were Perkoondeeli comes from?) was also a god adopted by the Finnic peoples, and the name has survived to this day as a curse word and a word for the "devil": Perkele (I'm sure our Swedish friends have heard it before ) May be we could have something similar for the Finnic factions?

Perkeleet. "Sieltä ne perkeleet tulee". "Ei niille perkeleille voi mitään".

On the whole it looks good, SS. We have to get this represented more visually, on an actual Tech-tree chart. However, I have exams all week, so I don't have much time on my hands right now

I have done this to exel sheet, but its's not ready yeat. Should we do
it with pictures to adobe (unfamiliar to me)?

I've also been formulating this idea: Instead of having watch towers, The Finnish factions and the Estonian factions should have Warning Beacons, which were lit to warn of danger. May be Vaaravalkea or Vartiotuli or something similar in Finnish?

I did but them as "Alarm Guards" and "Guard Towers". This could be little
too much to foregn players if we put Vaaravalkea in it. Mayby just
"Alarm Fire Guards" and Alarm Fire Towers?

[Sebastian Seth]

This is How the fortifications would look like:
http://www.geocities.com/siidon/FotN/F1-F11.JPG

[Sebastian Seth]

@Wario

We are doing the finnish-baltic tech tree and I need your help on it.
Theres going to be some govermentical buildings:
Chieftains House - Law House - Throne Room (preliminary)
Chieftains House - Käräjä House - Throne Room (finnish)

Does this repesent the other baltics well?

Theres going to be offices assosiated with these buildings
War Chief - Judge - Vice King (preliminary)
Sotapäällikkö - Tuomari - Varakuningas (finnish)
I would need translations of these to Saaremaa, Curonia, Lithua and Prusia.
Could you plese provide?

[PseRamesses]

Nores PC is still down but between an exam and a course he´s working on fixing it. He asked me to post this information for your knowledge:

FROM NORSEMAN

Hello everybody

Lately there has been many good posts swarming with ideas, both on units,
tech-tree and other things. This is all very nice, and much needed to make
a good mod with some unique features.

However, it is very hard for those who will do the actual modding(VH,
PseR, me, some others?) to get the overview, even if we read all posts,
and find the specific information we need at a given time in the thread.
Furthermore, both PseR and I have now had serious computer crashes -
hopefully I won't lose anything.

Because of this, as PseR has pointed out to me, it is about time we get
some serious information storage routines. This means that when several
people have discussed a topic(like let's say for instance "Finnish units")
and come to a conclusion, it must all be boiled down to a single post
summarizing it all in a clear and easy-to-understand fashion. I'm not
saying we haven't done so earlier, I'm just saying that we need to be
better at doing this with all information we intend to make use of in the
mod.

At the moment I can see 3 types of information relevant for us; UNITS,
TECH-TREE, and REGIONS. Later there may be more, that we will deal with
when it comes up.
REGIONS:
*Posting a small map with regions drawn on to it is preferable. If not a
good description is needed, using modern day names to describe the
borders.
*We need information on:
-region NAME
-LANDSCAPE FEATURES(hilly, flat, plains, coastline, rivers, woodland?)
-name of CAPITAL from the timeperiod and it's position.
-If coastal region, a PORT TOWN and it's position.
-CULTURE of the population(not necessarily the ruling faction)
-ARCHITECTURE
-REBELLIOUSNESS
-TRADEGOODS/RESOURCES
-?


TECH-TREE
*A general, but as short as possible, description of the culture of the
faction in question. A freemen or feudal society? Independant warlords?
The position and strength of the King?
Did the king travel from place to place(like viking kings), or did he have
a royal seat of power? What was major source of income? Farming, trading,
raids...? Other minor sources of income? Any unique buildings(e.g like the
viking Jomsborg),
*Suggestions on building names.

UNITS
*A overview of the fighting style of the faction(s) in question. E.g. "the
Danish vikings relied heavily upon the warlord's freemen and housecarls
early on. Later organized armies supplemented with spearmen and archers,
and possibly also light raider cavalry when royal forts was constructed
around the kingdom."
*For each unit:
-A general, but as short as possible, description of each unit which
includes what is regarded as the units streangths/weaknesses.
-Some stats, as you think it should be. These don't have to be given as
numbers from the unit_prod file, if you are not familiar with them.
Instead you can use text, like "good attack" etc.
-Some notes on appearance.

If anyone think of something more, please let me know. When the
information is collected, I suggest at least 2 of us, maybe even 3, store
this information on their HD. I have tried this more or less myself from
the beginning, but must admit I've not been thorough enough. I suggest
PseR, myself and possibly also VH try to store this information on our
HD's. Is that ok for you?

Do anybody possibly have a better system for info storage?

As for my PC, I have now finally gotten hold of a new XP CD. Due to real
life issues however, I won't be much online the coming period until about
the 20th of october, even if I do get my PC up and running. I will however
do my best to follow the progress of the thread and post when I find the
time.

Norseman

[Meneldil]

I've posted some maps in my unit post. All the new things I'll find about normans/franks will be posted there.

A map that could possibly be of some use (though I doubt it) :
http://www.agegames.com/mw/dipmap.jpg

[Sebastian Seth]

I'm collecting the finnish-baltic tech tree at the moment. I will make it
to exel sheet when it's finished, but it's not even nearly completed yet.

I could start to collect the unit list too but i must say that it's far to
messy at the moment. It would solve this poblem if the units would
have class (peasantry,raider,professional,special,nobility). This way
we could write the tech trees and reference the unit category instead
of the name of the unit.
(like "fort2" and "spearmaker" enables "raider class spearmen"
or "fort3" and "religional building3" enables "berserker+2")

I also would like to hear about the other tech trees. It can be nasty
suprise if the other tech trees enable some units that are superior
to the units other techtrees enable in same time. Who is working
on the other tech trees?

btw. what is whit the norsemans computer, i have worked in pereinstallation
unit and i found it hard to imagine that getting computer fixed
takes more than a 4 hours. and by that time you could build the
computer from components. is he an "overclocker" or is there some
componets causing issues?

btw2. this might sound very stupid but you should make different
partition to your work. that way you can format the whole
operating system without losing your work. I have two HD:s
another formated in fat32 and this is the storage the other
one divided to two partitions both in NTFS the other one
haves winXp the other haves games & programs & multimedia &
backups from c. so it takes about 1 hour to get the computer
back up after formating c and i have my work safely in other
partitions (you knew this, right?)

[VikingHorde]

btw. what is whit the norsemans computer, i have worked in pereinstallation
unit and i found it hard to imagine that getting computer fixed
takes more than a 4 hours. and by that time you could build the
computer from components. is he an "overclocker" or is there some
componets causing issues?

btw2. this might sound very stupid but you should make different
partition to your work. that way you can format the whole
operating system without losing your work. I have two HD:s
another formated in fat32 and this is the storage the other
one divided to two partitions both in NTFS the other one
haves winXp the other haves games & programs & multimedia &
backups from c. so it takes about 1 hour to get the computer
back up after formating c and i have my work safely in other
partitions (you knew this, right?)

It's a good idea. I have devided my HD in two for the last 7 years or so and work very well. I save all my stuff on drive D and keep my C drive clean so that I can reinstall my drive any time. Backup on two HD's is best, if one should break.

Last weekend I made two new units and I 'll make some more when my eyes get better (A good idea, don't work too many hours in front of the computer!). They use the Housecarl body, but have new shields and weaponds. They have been added to the viking era for now.

[PseRamesses]

FROM NORSEMAN

I'm collecting the finnish-baltic tech tree at the
moment. I will make it
to exel sheet when it's finished, but it's not even nearly completed yet.

I could start to collect the unit list too but i must say that it's far to
messy at the moment. It would solve this poblem if the units would
have class (peasantry,raider,professional,special,nobility). This way
we could write the tech trees and reference the unit category instead
of the name of the unit.
(like "fort2" and "spearmaker" enables "raider class spearmen"
or "fort3" and "religional building3" enables "berserker+2")

I also would like to hear about the other tech trees. It can be nasty
suprise if the other tech trees enable some units that are superior
to the units other techtrees enable in same time. Who is working
on the other tech trees?

I'm the one working on the other Tech-trees. Don't worry about balance
issues now. First we make the Tech-trees/units as we think it should be
for that faction/culture, then we balance things. Also keep in mind that
the tech-tree you come up with now will probably be changed quite a bit to
suit the mod(that goes for my work as well), so don't put too much work
into making it "perfect". Right now it's more important to get a proper
view of how society in Finland was around these times.

btw. what is whit the norsemans computer, i have
worked in pereinstallation
unit and i found it hard to imagine that getting computer fixed
takes more than a 4 hours. and by that time you could build the
computer from components. is he an "overclocker" or is there some
componets causing issues?

btw2. this might sound very stupid but you should make different
partition to your work. that way you can format the whole
operating system without losing your work. I have two HD:s
another formated in fat32 and this is the storage the other
one divided to two partitions both in NTFS the other one
haves winXp the other haves games & programs & multimedia &
backups from c. so it takes about 1 hour to get the computer
back up after formating c and i have my work safely in other
partitions (you knew this, right?)

It's not so much a problem with the PC itself as other things...
I'm using a student-license for my Windows-system, and it took some time
to get a new version of it. I might as well upgrade my system now that I
need to reinstall. Furthermore I've had very little free time the last 2-3
weeks. I'm involved in a course that has been taking my weekends(from
friday evening to sunday night - living in tents) and most of my evenings.
Inbetween this course, uni at daytime, training and some other activities
I've simply not had a single evening off for a long time.

And yes, I'm using partitions, 4 on my current PC with 2 HDs.
Most likely I haven't lost info, but that is impossible to say with
absolute certainty until I've actually gotten it up and running. Besides,
I don't know for certain what caused the crash. I've still not ruled out a
hardware failure completely, it behaves rather odd when I try to turn it
on. Hopefully all I need is a reinstall.

I can ensure you that when I find the time and energy to fix it, you will
hear from me again from my own PC.

Btw I might as well mention now that after my mid-term exam I'm going
hunting, and will be back 20-21 of october.

Norseman

[PseRamesses]

For future needs I´ve arranged for a 2nd mail-adress with larger storage capacity at Yahoo.
pseramesses1@yahoo.se for files up to 100MB.
pse@brevet.se for files up to 10MB.

[Sebastian Seth]

@Norseman

I just reminded me why I don't like school. The time it takes is little too
much for me. Good luck to the exams.

@Norse & Pse

Could you post a map you are working at the moment so we could all
see how much land is there in the map.

@Everyone

Faction/Culture (tech-tree)/Religion

1.Suoma Finnish-Baltic Baltic Pagans
2.Karjala Finnish-Baltic Baltic Pagans
3.Saaremaa Finnish-Baltic Baltic Pagans
4.Curonia Finnish-Baltic Baltic Pagans
5.Lithuania Finnish-Baltic Baltic Pagans
6.Prussia Finnish-Baltic Baltic Pagans

Is there any more baltic pagans?

The tech-tree of the finns is going to be a tech tree of the baltics too and
this is the main problem for me. The Finns and Baltics have lot of similareties
and on the other hand lot of differences. So I'll probably do a version 1 of
the tech tree and then post a link to it here and then we can start debate
over it.

[PseRamesses]

Hi guys,
I´ve been uploading, on several occasions since SS´s request for a map, pics to the old Org-adress but they are never accessable, so can anyone tell me, or give me an adress, where I can upload pics to use in a message.

[tombom]

www.imageshack.us