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Thread: Byzantium

  1. #31

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Hi everybody,

    This is my first post. I've been playing the Byz on level hard. I've not been playing too aggresively. Not initiating any wars myself. Just taking over the old eastern roman empire. I have wiped out the Turks, the Hungarians and the Egyptians. I control all of the middle-east, asia minor, russia as far north as smolensk and as far west as austria and sicily and corsica.

    Does anyone have advice as to how best to use the Byz armies later in the game? My infantry and cavalry are not as all conquering as they once were. My Treb archers are a lot less effective now that they are encountering more armoured troops. I'm also finding myself very vulnerable to heavy cavalry and heavy knights. The Mongols caused such heavy losses that i had to break up their armies with bribes. I've still not managed to get Kiev back from them.

    I built up to county militia hoping for pikemen and i don't get them. Arrgh. I very protective of my soldiers and losing 1200 of them to Mongolian rebels in a single battle makes me sad. Please help.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Ya Byzantine troops get more and more obsolete as the years go along. You gotta conquer as quickly as safely possible and by the late period youll prbly be relying on mercs a significant amount

  3. #33
    Hobbilars' whisperer... Member Advo-san's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Indeed... But the inferior Byzantine arsenal is countermeasured by a huge General Command Value.
    But, as it is said above, mercs must be your iron fist
    ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΠΡΟΜΑΧΟΥΝΤΕΣ ΑΘΗΝΑΙΟΙ ΜΑΡΑΘΩΝΙ ΜΗΔΩΝ ΧΡΥΣΟΦΟΡΩΝ ΕΣΤΟΡΕΣΑΝ ΔΥΝΑΜΙΝ

    Champions of the Greeks the Athenians in Marathon strewed the power of the goldendressed Persians

  4. #34
    The hair proves it... Senior Member EatYerGreens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbringer
    Hi everybody,
    Welcome to the forum!


    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbringer
    This is my first post.
    From your message count, this appears to be your only post!
    Sorry, couldn't resist. I hope it's the first of many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbringer
    I built up to county militia hoping for pikemen and i don't get them.
    You may have noticed, from the moment that you first upgraded from Town Watch to Town Guard that Militia Sergeants didn't come up as an option? That should have been a clue and pikemen are the far end of that tech tree.

    I was also annoyed by this, since the tech tree chart which comes with the game doesn't clearly mark them out as unavailable to Orthodox factions.

    In the buildings menu, you can preview what units can be trained, before you commit to a build. Luckily for me, I noticed that Town Guard came up blank for the Byz and saved my money.

    Pikemen are a strongly defensive unit but I've no idea what they are like as attackers. If your empire is as big as you describe, you should be in a position to be on the offensive and can probably manage without pikes.

    Well armoured spearmen for anti-cav should do as a substitute and Varangian Guards for meatgrinding position-holds in the forests are all the defensive units you'll need. Have a reinforcement stack of archers, to rotate in and out on long battles, or pavs for their longer lasting ammo and protection.

    Use the trees to shelter your foot troops from Mongol arrows, let them run out of ammo and bring on reinforcements to their heart's content but, in general, *make* them come to you and fight amongst the trees where horses are weakest. When they've wasted most of their armies attacking your provinces, then you can start to attack theirs, using fast cavalry to chase off their HA's and Katanks/PronA and infantry to hit anything that holds its ground, as soon as risk of missile fire has been shoved into some irrelevant part of the battlefield.

    The only major thing I can add to the excellent guides in this thread is to recommend that you build a church in every one of your principal troop producing provinces. Byz Inf benefit from this the most, because their default morale level is set to 'poor' and the +1 church boost cancels this out.

    That should be enough, what with high-star generals about but, optionally soup them up some more with monastery, Reliquary and Cathedral, if you can stand the build times when you might prefer to go for trader builds first.

    As my campaign followed the pattern of Turks, then Eggies, then up against Spain in the desert, I built the church ahead of the armourer, postponing the armourer until desert numbers were adequate. Early-built TAs went to the desert, later ones are armoured for Europe and armoured BIs can come from Treb when needed. Meanwhile, Connie is busy with silver Kats and VGs and it's the only place to get monastery and Reliquary so far. Cathedral under construction... look out world, monster Tanks and VGs coming your way!

    EYG

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  5. #35
    Member Member Varangian Berserker's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Byzantium

    I'm just starting out, so I was wondering, does any one ever leave the Holy Land in the hands of Rebels, Egyptians, or Crusaders? When I start a new game, I'm tempted to just pillage Antioch and let the rebels re-take it since several countries go crusading after it in Glorious Achievement Mode. In my present game (Late, Glorious Achievement, EZ) I often just let the Crusaders Pass Through/Pillage since they soften up the Egyptians that are on my southern border.

    BTW, has any one ever tried to send packs of Assassins after the Turks, Golden Horde, Hungarians, etc... in an attempt to make their Royal Lines collapse? Such a technique would be fitting of the "devious Greeks".


    "SHOW ME THE FLORIIINSSS!!!!!!!!!!"
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  6. #36
    Don't worry, I don't exist Member King of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Well, i dont play gloriuos achievment, but i wouldnt recommend not taking antioch, and all of the levant. Those can be some rich provinces...

    And yes assasinating bloodlines can be awesome, but takes patience, and an assasiination training program(train assasins to kill other assasins, gaining higher valour..)

  7. #37
    Member Member Varangian Berserker's Avatar
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    Question Re: Byzantium

    Training assassins to kill other assassins? How? I thought they were invisible to everyone except thier owners, Towers, and spies. And even then, you only found out about the assassin when the parchment came up saying that a spy, Tower, etc had detected, captured, or killed one.
    "SHOW ME THE FLORIIINSSS!!!!!!!!!!"
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  8. #38
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Varangian Beserker
    Training assassins to kill other assassins? How? I thought they were invisible to everyone except thier owners, Towers, and spies. And even then, you only found out about the assassin when the parchment came up saying that a spy, Tower, etc had detected, captured, or killed one.
    I think he means your own assassins, you know, produce ten so one can kill the other nine and become experienced in assassination proficiency. Since assassins are covert "agent" units I doubt there would be political repercussions as when you start killing your own generals in their sleep.

    Oh, and The Levant is worth all the Crusades you'll fight. It's one of the richest places in the game; with Antioch, Tripoli, and Egypt. At the peak of trading one could make more than 10k+ money for each of these provinces.

  9. #39
    Hobbilars' whisperer... Member Advo-san's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    I think he means your own assassins, you know, produce ten so one can kill the other nine and become experienced in assassination proficiency. Since assassins are covert "agent" units I doubt there would be political repercussions as when you start killing your own generals in their sleep.
    What valour will you gain by killing 9 0valour assassins?
    ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΠΡΟΜΑΧΟΥΝΤΕΣ ΑΘΗΝΑΙΟΙ ΜΑΡΑΘΩΝΙ ΜΗΔΩΝ ΧΡΥΣΟΦΟΡΩΝ ΕΣΤΟΡΕΣΑΝ ΔΥΝΑΜΙΝ

    Champions of the Greeks the Athenians in Marathon strewed the power of the goldendressed Persians

  10. #40
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Why kill your own assasins? Generally the other factions will send more then enough bishops or alims to your territory, asking for it

  11. #41
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    Since assassins are covert "agent" units I doubt there would be political repercussions as when you start killing your own generals in their sleep.
    Actually I've never succeeded in doing so. Playing HRE in High, my kings and all their heirs were a bunch of idiots, de-stabilizing the empire way more than any invasion, including the Mongols, could do....so I sent assassins, and not fresh ones, after them but they failed every single time, adding another horrible line of traits to the "victim". Oh why?? It was only a matter of time until the civil war broke out, in which I sided with the rebels and established a somewhat fitter line of kings; if only their empire would have been nearly as large...
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  12. #42
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Varangian Beserker
    In my present game (Late, Glorious Achievement, EZ)
    Do you have a good strat for late byz empire? At some point I inevitably can't help falling victim to one of the countless enemies one quickly has. Without Varangians, the game seems insurmountable. Any hints?
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  13. #43
    Member Member Varangian Berserker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus ret.
    Do you have a good strat for late byz empire? At some point I inevitably can't help falling victim to one of the countless enemies one quickly has. Without Varangians, the game seems insurmountable. Any hints?

    No, even though I had survived until 1453, the game still said that I lost because I did'nt take over 60%+ of the map. Like I said, it was my first game ever. I'm doing a new one on early era.
    "SHOW ME THE FLORIIINSSS!!!!!!!!!!"
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  14. #44
    Urban Cohort Fanatic Member Lanemerkel1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    One final note on the opening moves; the island provinces of Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus are a lot of trouble, but work to keep them. They can make good shipbuilding centers. Their loyalty will improve once they have a ship link to some other port in the Byzantine Empire.

    or in my case, as a last resort for your empire (16 crusade sized armies battering my empire, well I need a place to go, and since I have naval superiority in that area I can build up all the army I want as long as I can afford it)

    anyway in another Byz campaign I have this is my unit roster:
    Bulgarian Brigands
    Trebizond Archers
    Geonese Sailors
    Slav Warriors
    Slav Javlinmen
    Lithuanian Cavalry
    Steppe Cavalry
    Pronoiai Allagion
    Kataphraktoi
    Varangian Guard
    Byzantine Cavalry
    Byzantine Infantry
    Byzantine Lancers
    Swiss Pikemen
    Swiss Armoured Pikemen
    Swiss Halberdiers
    Highland Clansmen
    Kerns
    Gallowglasses
    Woodsmen
    Urban Militia
    Peasants
    Spearmen
    Pavise Crossbows
    Pavise Arbalesters
    Crossbowmen
    Arbalesters
    Arquebusiers
    Archers
    Royal Knights
    Horse Archers

    I expanded all the way to Scotland, my only real enemy is the Elmoheads, besides them the pope is a minor thorn, and since he always comes back he's the last one I'm going to knock out

    my weak infantry and Cavalry (Peasants, Archers, Searmen, Urban Militia, Horse Archers)
    are all out of date so I just sent them to italy to keep the pope in order

    most of the rest of my infantry are in the pyrennes war with mr. Elmohead and most cavalry is in the Nile war with the same person
    Last edited by Lanemerkel1; 01-06-2006 at 18:10.



    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    If I werent playing games Id be killing small anamils at a higher rate than I am now

  15. #45
    Member Member dagiz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    I adopted an early strike method of going after the North Africa and stopping at Morocco to hold off the Spanish with one stack and than another two behind it for reinforcements. Controlling all provinces around the Black Sea and as well as serbia. It worked and I was able to build up quite significantly and be able to hold off the Spanish and the GH (it took a bit to get Kiev and Crimea back) also I bribed quite a bit early on to save man power.

    In battle, I always have at least three cav units off to the side and as hidden as possible to come up from behind - especially when the opposing army as Siege weapons -- I sneak around those and take them out and then charge down and pick that army out from behind, usually leading to a quick route.

    If you're not picking about losing men (and I actually am) the Byz. Inf. due to their numbers are great for causing mass panic amoung higher tech units, especially the skirmishers. The Naptha throwers are great for bringing around from behind as well.

    Whenever going against the GH, I tend to have more Cav than anything else to counter theirs.

    I think the best I ever did was against the Spanish who sent 7000 to my 3000, I came away losing about 400 to their three thousand, also helped that they started out in a deep valley and a lucky shot from a trebuchet killed the general before they got close.
    Do as I say and not as I do, or is it do as I do and not as I say?

  16. #46
    Urban Cohort Fanatic Member Lanemerkel1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by dagiz
    I adopted an early strike method of going after the North Africa and stopping at Morocco to hold off the Spanish with one stack and than another two behind it for reinforcements. Controlling all provinces around the Black Sea and as well as serbia. It worked and I was able to build up quite significantly and be able to hold off the Spanish and the GH (it took a bit to get Kiev and Crimea back) also I bribed quite a bit early on to save man power.

    In battle, I always have at least three cav units off to the side and as hidden as possible to come up from behind - especially when the opposing army as Siege weapons -- I sneak around those and take them out and then charge down and pick that army out from behind, usually leading to a quick route.

    If you're not picking about losing men (and I actually am) the Byz. Inf. due to their numbers are great for causing mass panic amoung higher tech units, especially the skirmishers. The Naptha throwers are great for bringing around from behind as well.

    Whenever going against the GH, I tend to have more Cav than anything else to counter theirs.

    I think the best I ever did was against the Spanish who sent 7000 to my 3000, I came away losing about 400 to their three thousand, also helped that they started out in a deep valley and a lucky shot from a trebuchet killed the general before they got close.


    my ranks as Byzantium (since my new policy is only for them)

    consists of three parts:

    Byzantine Cavalry (Pre-Battle Skirmishing, Long Range Knockout)
    Byzantine Lancers (Initial Charge, Flanking Attacks)
    Byzantine Infantry (Main Fighting Force/Distraction)
    Steppe Cavalry (Flanking Attack out of nowhere, Router Pursuit)

    Steppe is only occasional in my ranks


    otherwise it only has stuff that has "byzantine" at the beginning



    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    If I werent playing games Id be killing small anamils at a higher rate than I am now

  17. #47
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    I am playing a Byz campaign with the XL mod in the high period. I have recaptured Greece and Constantonople (SP?). I am only in maybe 6 turns I bribed those armies. I never got into the Byz before despite years of playing MTW.

    Be intrested in advice on how and what to do from the high period on? My first goal is to begin building up the provinces I have economically while building some stack armies to go on the offensive in and around the black sea. I know the Horde is coming and I am pretty sure the defenses I build will hold, but I dont see much on the Byz starting from the high period.

    Any tips ?
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

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  18. #48

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I enjoy much playing Byz in high period.

    After taking some pains killing Turks I allied myself with French against egypt and let the crusaders to take many attacks which weakened Eggies to the point where I attacked. I took them in few years blitz finished by marvellous bribe of Cairo and establishing nice empire with few borders.
    This tactics however led to sad situation when Tripoli and Cyprus are in french hands. Fortunately, poor them got involved in mainland war against english and HRE at the same time. They will either lose their royal line in some far-away battle and then I will take their Outremer possesions by bribe, or I will simply attack them in the unlikely case they will turn the anglo-german tide.

    I play quite conservative style, leaving my fellow christians alone and attacking the muslim solely. Now it will have to change soon, as Almos are steadily beaten by many crusades (Morocco owned by HRE now!). Hungarians are now most likely target as I have no trade with them.

    However I have not tasted the european steel yet and I fear that the attack on Hungarians could force my italian allies to leave me/attack me and disrupt my trade. I am at the point where without trade my Romanoi would be poorest of poor...

    The Horde somehow posed no threat at all, since in 5 years they were beaten by my fellow Russians. I did not have resources and time to move from Georgia to Khazar, but quite conveniently and historically I took Crimea.

    Basically I performed so far following steps:

    1. Unification
    2. Seljuks elimination
    3. Trip to Egypt
    4. Expanding trade ad absurdum

    Now I slowly prepare for Hungarians and/or Sicilians who foolishly angered my imperial pride by siding with egyptians.

    Sorry for boring first post.

  19. #49
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirron
    I enjoy much playing Byz in high period.

    After taking some pains killing Turks I allied myself with French against egypt and let the crusaders to take many attacks which weakened Eggies to the point where I attacked. I took them in few years blitz finished by marvellous bribe of Cairo and establishing nice empire with few borders.
    This tactics however led to sad situation when Tripoli and Cyprus are in french hands. Fortunately, poor them got involved in mainland war against english and HRE at the same time. They will either lose their royal line in some far-away battle and then I will take their Outremer possesions by bribe, or I will simply attack them in the unlikely case they will turn the anglo-german tide.

    I play quite conservative style, leaving my fellow christians alone and attacking the muslim solely. Now it will have to change soon, as Almos are steadily beaten by many crusades (Morocco owned by HRE now!). Hungarians are now most likely target as I have no trade with them.

    However I have not tasted the european steel yet and I fear that the attack on Hungarians could force my italian allies to leave me/attack me and disrupt my trade. I am at the point where without trade my Romanoi would be poorest of poor...

    The Horde somehow posed no threat at all, since in 5 years they were beaten by my fellow Russians. I did not have resources and time to move from Georgia to Khazar, but quite conveniently and historically I took Crimea.

    Basically I performed so far following steps:

    1. Unification
    2. Seljuks elimination
    3. Trip to Egypt
    4. Expanding trade ad absurdum

    Now I slowly prepare for Hungarians and/or Sicilians who foolishly angered my imperial pride by siding with egyptians.

    Sorry for boring first post.
    Not boring at all mate, welcome to the org.

    I usually play conservative to only because blitzing is far to easy particularly with the Byz. High period is a bit of a challenge straight away though, but once you reestablish some sembelance of a base you can expand. when I play I usually stick to my religion, so christians be dammed (no pun intended) for my game.

    My real concern is do I take on the turks now, or build up and see what the mongols do? I have been burnt in a russian game by not properly preparing for the mongols. I hoped they would go middle east, they didnt they went north.

    I can handle the turks now, my units are superior at this point (as long as I dont spend years fighting in the desert), but nothing has really happened yet, no crusades no eggies invading italy nothing...its eeriely quite.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

  20. #50

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I have only extremely limited experience with Mongols, so far. I have started all my serious campaigns on early, except this Byzantine one.

    I looked forward for double challenge - defending against Horde going south and fighting Turk at the same time.

    After reading all posts from mighty medieval total warriors regarding Mongol threat I decided to take Georgia, then I vacated it in order to support other attacks (except puny garrison of 1 horse archers and 1 peasant units). The turks invaded Georgia and I was happy to retreat to the fort (the early wooden structure) with surviving 9 HAs. They laid siege (expected to take 5 or more years). As I kicked them out of Rum (worthy exchange for G.) , I was quite happy and garrisoned Trebisond to prevent any further problems.

    Without Rum Turks were in dire situation, and I thought that their armies in Armenia/Georgia would create nice buffer between me and the Horde.

    But surprisingly (or not surprisingly at all! ) my loyal subjects in Georgia revolted against the Seljuks fielding two foot knights (?gothic/chivalric? - I dont remember exactly). I excitedly moved the archers fro Trebizond in and could not resist to wipe them out of Georgia for good. Then adding some cavalry from Rum I rolled into Armenia and Turks were reduced to Anatolia. Knights did marvellous meat-mincing job until they were wiped out later in apocalyptic battle (from my point of view with egyptians).

    So with no buffer zone at all I trembled before the horde ARRIVAL. AND HERE THEY RODE FROM THE STEPPES! And only against Russians, who after repeated battles annihilated Mongols without any major effort.

    I was not able to muster enough forces to HELP my Russian friend and occupy Khazaria, though.

    At the same time, the Seljuks were put to - hopefully - eternal sleep after huge battle in Anatolia + short siege. RIP.

    So, somehow fortunately I was able to get rid both of the Turks and Horde until circa 1235-6.

    But to finally answer your notion my original plan vs. Horde and Turks was:

    1. Get Turks between my Empire and Horde
    2. Let them fight and slow the Horde
    3. Wait and see and liberate Asia minor in the meantime
    4. Ally with Horde if they would get too dangerous, and pursue my Middle
    East policies while Horde would fight against others.

    Thanks to the prayers of Patriarch of Constantinople and all his bishops and priests my Roman Empire (DID YOU KNOW THAT THE BYZANTINES DID NOT CALL THEMSELVES BYZANTINES AT ALL? They were Romanoi - Romans and referred to their empire as Roman until 1461 when the Trebizond empire, the last successor state of Byz fell to Osman Turks) unexpectedly and quickly became a serious Power.

    Long post again.

  21. #51
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirron
    Long post again.
    But an interesting one, though this forum is about general strategy and not campaign stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirron
    Thanks to the prayers of Patriarch of Constantinople and all his bishops and priests my Roman Empire (DID YOU KNOW THAT THE BYZANTINES DID NOT CALL THEMSELVES BYZANTINES AT ALL? They were Romanoi - Romans and referred to their empire as Roman until 1461 when the Trebizond empire, the last successor state of Byz fell to Osman Turks) unexpectedly and quickly became a serious Power.
    Yes, I know that, though I don't think everyone on this forum does. Although there are a few references to the "Byzantine Empire" from early "Byzantines", the term did not become popular until somewhere in the eitheenth or ninetheenth century. Modern-day Greeks still use "Romaioi" (sp?) as a term for Greekness.

    Welcome to the Org, .
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  22. #52
    Fidei Defensor Member metatron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    The Mongols are probably the best source of mercenaries in the entire game. Just kill their Khan in the initial invasion and his armies default to rebel with almost zero loyalty. Cheap, loyal, and a boat load of 'em.

    Onward, Christian soldier...
    [War's] glory is all moonshine; even success most brilliant is over dead and mangled bodies, with the anguish and lamentations of distant families.
    — William Tecumseh Sherman


  23. #53
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by metatron
    The Mongols are probably the best source of mercenaries in the entire game. Just kill their Khan in the initial invasion and his armies default to rebel with almost zero loyalty. Cheap, loyal, and a boat load of 'em.

    Onward, Christian soldier...
    Indeed, a sound tactic for surviving the Horde. I got a chance to play a little mroe last night. The armenians (I am using XL Mod) have cleaned up turkey, I took antolia so the orthodox faith has restablished itsself which is a nice addendum to my game. The Cumans have secured the northen black sea provinces and are in a death match with Poland which I believe they are winning.

    The Horde showed up last night and I had to save the game as I had stuff to do. They entered in Khazar and I am sending an emmissary up there to see if they move south, west or north. My concern is south, the armenians (a good ally that aided my assault in antolia) owns as far as Georgia and my fear is that they will be swallowed by the horde fast as the war with turkey exhausted thier resources.

    As the Byz I have a few jedi leaders (playing on hard) 6 star heirs so I am have 2 full stack armies and I am slowing building a merc force comprised of arbelastors and mortar as a small response force should one of the christians get cute in the west. I am bordered by 2 other orthdox factions to my north (i forgot thier faction names) so overall my position is secure until I figure out what the mongols are going to do.

    If I can ally with them, then we take out the Cumans, my overall mindset for the game is to play along religion lines, supporting the orthodox cause against the pagans and keeping the chirsitans at arms length.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

  24. #54

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Dear generals, do you have any suggestions for archer use playing Byz after cca 1300 ?

    1. Fighting catholics do you rely only on arbalesters/handgunners?

    2. Do you prefer Trebizond archers or Genoese sailors if you can get them?

    3. Is the archers rate of fire important to you, or do you use primarily armor
    piercing units late in the game?

    In my campaign I use 3 units of archers (trebizond, genoese and occasional mercenary longbow) and 3 units of arbalests in my attack armies and I have noticed that even royal/chivalric knights suffer some important losses when targeted solely by archer wing of missile units...

    Thank you.

  25. #55
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirron
    Dear generals, do you have any suggestions for archer use playing Byz after cca 1300 ?

    1. Fighting catholics do you rely only on arbalesters/handgunners?

    2. Do you prefer Trebizond archers or Genoese sailors if you can get them?

    3. Is the archers rate of fire important to you, or do you use primarily armor
    piercing units late in the game?

    In my campaign I use 3 units of archers (trebizond, genoese and occasional mercenary longbow) and 3 units of arbalests in my attack armies and I have noticed that even royal/chivalric knights suffer some important losses when targeted solely by archer wing of missile units...

    Thank you.
    1. Arbs/Handgunners are the main damage dealers in my Byz armies. I also use the spear/naptha combo. Spear pins, naptha kills. Everything. Sure, your spears die, but who cares, you got more where those came from. As Byz in Late you must learn the meaning of the word SACRIFICE.

    2. Neither. I actually prefer Bulgarian Brigands. Genose Sailors are only available in specific situations, while Treb archers have exorbitant maintenance costs. Bulgarian Brigands have good stats and are cheap to maintain. If given weapon/armor/morale upgrades, they also perform quite well in melee (in a pinch of course).

    3. Both. Arbies in the front, with archers behind them. Even in Late, arrows do enough damage to make them worthwhile.

    Hope that helped.
    Last edited by rvg; 02-20-2006 at 19:52.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  26. #56

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Thank you rvg, it helped a lot.

    And here is another question, which would help me in my current campaign.

    Do other Catholics tend to defend the Papacy if it gets attacked by so called infidels?

    I mean, if I (as the Byz) would attack the Pope, will they attack me or at least some of them? Would it be different from the usual allied help, which sometimes occurs?

    I am tempted to bring papacy down but I do not want to put my trade routes in danger.

  27. #57

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirron
    Thank you rvg, it helped a lot.

    And here is another question, which would help me in my current campaign.

    Do other Catholics tend to defend the Papacy if it gets attacked by so called infidels?

    I mean, if I (as the Byz) would attack the Pope, will they attack me or at least some of them? Would it be different from the usual allied help, which sometimes occurs?

    I am tempted to bring papacy down but I do not want to put my trade routes in danger.
    If you attack the Papacy its likely most Catholic if not all Catholic factions will rally and unite against you.

    Its always best to pick off the enemies of the Papacy (excommunicated factions are best) the power of the Pope isnt military, but influence, if it doesnt hold sway over the major Catholic factions or they have been destroyed then the Pope is defenceless. You need to be cautious, as Catholics factions look for any excuse to launch a load of crusades at you, its bad enough when they randomly decide to crusade against Byzantium but giving them all the excuse they need by attacking the Pope is a bad move. You'll lose most alliances and become totally isolated.

  28. #58
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Just some of my miscellaneous Byzantine ramblings....mostly addressing the fun factor.

    Kill the Turks. They breathe your air.

    At some point I like to conquer a coastal province with Iron. Usually Aragon.

    V2 Treb Archers with full armor/weapon upgrades are fearsome in melee.

    Once you got Varangian assembly line going, you will hate your Byz Infantry units.

    Byz Lancers are surprisingly good in the desert, provided that they have no extra armor.

    Royalty will provide all the Katanks you'll ever need. I hardly ever build them, but I do repair/upgrade the ones I have.

    Grab Khazar.

    Byz Cavalry is a fine unit, especially for its purely Byzantine flavor, but Steppe Heavy Cav. is better. And cheaper.

    Slav Warriors from Bulgaria are a great substitute for Peasant garrisons.

    If you attack and conquer Egypt before 1110, the rest of the game will be far too easy and boring.

    Vanilla spears aren't *that* bad. Good for desert warfare.

    All Byzantine units speak fluent Russian.

    Speaking of Russians/PoN, Orthodox or not, they'll still attack you if the opportunity presents itself.

    A Fortress in Khazar loaded with Varangians will deplete Mongol assault force by a few thousand. And they ALWAYS assault the Khazar fortress.

    Don't overextend your trade network, or you'll be bored silly with way too much money.

    Sicilians are evil and must be destroyed.

    Defensive war + a total naval blockade is fun.

    Island provinces should be building boats as quickly as you can afford. The entire Mediterranean must be flooded with purple galleys.

    Try to ally with the biggest Catholic faction and help them become a superpower. Leter on they'll provide a bit of challenge and fun in the game.

    Don't stockpile too many Varangians, otherwise you'll get bored with easy combat.

    V2 Pronoia from Nikea is far more useful than a V2 Katank from Constantinople. Purely because of the speed aspect.

    Combine all of your highest valor units into one compact army of whoopass, led by a 9 star general.

    Take on obscure unit (like Urban Militia) and try to valor it up to a near-Jedi status (w/ full upgrades and all). Valor 13 UM is no joke in combat.

    Any artillery capable of turning is a boon to any bridge battle (offensive or defensive).

    High quality gunpowder artillery is useful in *any* defensive battle, and some offensive ones as well.

    See to it that the HRE is eliminated. There's only room for *one* Emperor on the map.

    Kill the Pope. Take his lands. Assign a sizeable army to fight re-emergences.

    And last, but not least, always play in GA mode. Having to conquer the entire map becomes a mindless task after the first couple of times.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  29. #59

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Couple of other things to note. Although Byzantium units do get somewhat obsolete earlier they are insanely powerful. Pronoai allagion (V2 from nicaea+MHB) will always kick major backside. V1 Varangians are available less than 20 years in if you prepare. Also the humble byzantine infantry, if trained in constantinople or another well built province can get the +1 valour for master swordsmith and insane armour. A morale boost from a church/cathedral means that even in late they kick some serious backside.

    Bulgarian bridands are nice, and have a low upkeep (is money a problem by that time though?) But valour 2 trebizond archers well armoured are quite a force as well.

    One thing I would recommend with the Byzantines is to specialise your provinces. I am always building in Constantinople and Nicea. Constantinople builds for +1 valour varangian guards, then towards kataphracts (with a couple of trade buildings thrown in). Nicaea goes for the guards then pronoi allagion. Trebizond goes for archery buildings are armour upgrades only. Greece for trade and anatolia farming. Islands build ships, strategic units and build for title buildings- chancellery etc. I tend to maintain a stable border to greece and not expand too much in Europe to try and keep the game interesting. Then I take a general, varangians and pronoi allagion and go on a round the world rebel killing crusade. If its rebel and has a port I'll be there. This improves your general, but more importantly nets you great valour for your varangians and pronoi. Then you have a truly elite army that will last forever.

    The problem I find is that I love playing as Byzantium in early but its far too easy. I'm considering modding the Novgorodians or Italians to give them a much better start so they can do some real damage.

    I would love to stop at the turkish provinces, but the Egyptians ALWAYS attack me (leading to their destruction a few turns later) I offer peace (with 8 influence) and they snub me every time.

    Incidentally an early bribe to Khazar is a cool alternative to the mercenary blitzkrieg, if they agree to the first bribe they will have a lower upkeep cost and gain valour.

    Seriously though, how much harder would this game be if the AI used mercenaries? I've had to stop using them since it means that any faction can gain an unassailable lead (even aragon- all of spain within 15-20 years)

  30. #60
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Just a quick note on holding Naples in Early: Grab Serbia asap and build a port there. That will allow you to send reenforcements to Naples with just one galley.

    You'll already have a bunch of UM, Spears and possibly Byz Inf there and Archers, so get some Cavalry + a high star general (they're a dime a dozen for the Byz), and your Naples colony will be absolutely secure.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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