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Thread: Spain

  1. #31
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I didn't mean more cautious in VI.

    I just meant compared to me.

    Then again, most humans are more cautious than me.

    except for perhaps Doug and me, few players will be willing to blitz several provinces on the first turn.

    My point is that Aragon needs to be destroyed early as they can spam RKs from heirs and be a pain.

    also, Toulouse is a very worthwhile province that needs to be grabbed and can be done only by going through Aragon.

    Navarre is easy province to grab early and maneuvering to kill those spears and peasants and chasing routers will gain some valor for your troops.

    Valencia is going to be secure for the first 5 turns or so as the Almos are scared of 5* El Cid parked there.

    They usually go for Portugal instead.

    Aragonese are also programmed to go for Navarre or Toulouse before Valencia.

    they also pump exclusively archers for the first few turns so your jinettes will have a field day running them all down.

  2. #32
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Tried out the Aragon-Toulouse start, and it worked wonderfully. I autoresolved battles to make sure it wasn't dependent on micro or luck. However, I still had the good fortune to kill the Aragonian king in open battle on my second try, avoiding any excommunication risk.

    Advantages and observations:

    1. Not only was the British-French war was much more protracted, it became a three-way war with the Holy Roman Empire getting entangled. I became the dominant power in Western Europe automatically.

    2. The Spanish ability to build a chapter house without a keep doesn't last forever. Use it or lose it.

    3. The Almohads didn't make a move on Valencia before I conquered the province.

    4. Taking Cordoba and storming the castle gives you a province with a keep and a port right where you need it — on the Spanish east coast. Build a navy there and you can cut off the Italians.

    5. I was able to crush the Almos and then transfer Crusader units to West. Nobody was going to get Aquitaine or Province back.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  3. #33
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    yep. I always had more luck with this method.

    previously, I would ignore the Aragonese and hence not fight the French and instead send my Crusaders back to kill the Aragonese.

    As Aragon, I tend to go for Toulouse fast so I tried to do the same strats with similar factions. Ie. as turks/eggy/Byz, I always have Georgia, Const, Egypt Triangle.

    Brits or French, I always have all of Isles +France

    I tried taking Aragonese out early as I needed to do so anyhow and this is the only way to hit Toulouse in reasonable time.

    Going to Aquitaine would only make French stronger and that's really undesirable.

    I actually haven't been so lucky as to preserve the Cordoba Keep even storming.

    My soldiers seem a bit too greed and pillaged everything

    I've actually have had huge stalemate on the Western front once I took Aquitiane and Toulouse this way.

    HRE joined in too and became a huge three way brawl.

    I switched alliances to Brits and HRE and the French never managed to dominate until two decades later by which time I was already well within the Holy Lands due to North Africa crusade run

    I pity the Eggy who had to deal with 3 solid stacks of knights santiago and order foot not to mention the mountains of fanatics who can still eat their peasant hordes alive.

  4. #34
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    pity, but i prefer, lancers (i know it's irrelevant)
    On a more relevant point, your high risk strat works, very well

  5. #35
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    you do realize that v1 CKs can tie lancers in melee, right? and that it's also possible to get v2 CKs by building the master's buildings and in Toulouse while you can't build even v1 lancers?

    thus, v2 CKs>v0 lancers end of story.

    must say, lancers do look cooler.

  6. #36
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Last night, I attacked Navarre on the second turn but didn't attack Aragon on the third turn, waiting for some more units to get trained. (I play huge unit size, so it takes two turns to make a unit.)

    I received 1,000 florins from the Pope. I also had an heir mature and a son born.

    Cool. So I attack Aragon on the fourth turn and get an excommunication warning. The Aragonian king retreats to the fort. I storm it on the fifth turn, while there's still no mature Aragonian heir with a bodyguard, taking the province. Turn six comes. I get another 1,000 florins from the Pope.

    Go figure.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  7. #37
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I have a hunch that the heirs can't mature if they are being sieged.

    ie. heir can't mature inside castle.

    BTW, I've had heirs mature in a province in which my king was laying siege to the AI and even though I don't comepletely own the province, my heir actually gets the upgrades from there.

  8. #38
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ June 17 2004,08:43)]I have a hunch that the heirs can't mature if they are being sieged.

    ie. heir can't mature inside castle.
    Hmmm. That could well be true. I'll watch for that sort of thing in the future.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  9. #39
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    In all my campaigns, I've never seen a single faction get heirs matured while their king is getting sieged in a castle.

    having a mature heir would help them greatly.

    having an heir mature woudl require the province to be owned IMHO.

    ownership doesn't require full ownership but having the field and sieging the castle would also qualify.

    For example, my Polish King sieging the Byz in Const had my maturing heir get silver armor which must have been from Const.'s armor guild even though I didn't storm the castle yet.

  10. #40
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ June 17 2004,01:53)]you do realize that v1 CKs can tie lancers in melee, right? and that it's also possible to get v2 CKs by building the master's buildings and in Toulouse while you can't build even v1 lancers?

    thus, v2 CKs>v0 lancers end of story.

    must say, lancers do look cooler.
    exactly, as said before, i'm the master n00b and i like looks so go lancer. You're right about the heir thing though i've read about it somewhere

  11. #41
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    I like the crusading down north africa option a bit more... it give you a HUGE (and very secured in terms of land border) empire fast... and almost all ur province are wealthy beyond belive (with either good farm/trade or mining)...

    all you gotta do is keep buying mercs and putting them into the crusade and it can't really fail... (but you must remember to keep all ur logistics going right... i.e coverting the muslim province... and garrison them with something.... and keep building more inns for mercs. and start a ship lane etc...)

    The argonese won't prove to be a tough oppenet as long as you are somewhat vigilent and ally/marry them a bit .....

    One of the good part about doing this rout is that it give you excess to huge trade profit very quickly.... and also let you get turcopoles which when combiend with jinnets and the spanish knights is a unstoppable cav force only the mongols could hope to out cav....

    After you take the middle east though... you MUST build up ur shipping before pushing on or the risk of civil war mass rebellion and being ganbanged from every side is just too great to take.... (espically them damn sicilian/italian dropping into north africa would be a disastor as u'll probably immediately lose the middle east to mass rebellion this way)

    You should keep a low profile and build up a sick force and try to take some rebel lands (ireland... scandanavia) try to keep the trade going as long as possible...

    If you don't want to mass merc abuse i think bribing el cid is worth it... he's a instant 8 star on the attack ... and jinnets make good general units etc.... i think a tip though is to make alliance with ur emmisary on the first turn (to the argonese) so he gets a star... it'll raise ur chace or bribing him succesffully without paying 50-100% more considerablly...

    gold/gold lancer sounds nice except that they'll probably go to totally exhausted just by walking to the enemy line XD..... so now they just become a expensive katank XD

  12. #42
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I still think taking out the Aragonese in the 8 years before the crusade run is a good idea as is overrunning Toulouse through Aragon as that makes victory for the French in the war with the Brits a lot slower and more uncertain.

    flip your alliance to French and then sack Aquitaine when the opportunity arises for a nice short border.

  13. #43
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    I suppose... take on the catholic before u get instant excommunication for getting backstabbed by any other catholic is not a bad idea XD still... castile/valencia and talous/aquantine are still both 2 province border (though yes the later is better if possible.. but i think that could get you more likely drawn into the west europ conflict faster too....

  14. #44
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    actually no.

    I find that when I sack Toulouse, the French win the fight a lot slower and I don't have a unified French on my back, hungering for more territory.

    In fact, it's far more likely to degenerate into a three way stalemate with the HRE joining in the party.

    getting Southern France also makes sure that whoever wins wouldn't have all of France.

  15. #45
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    and potentially lancerlike CK's with v2

  16. #46
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    v2 CKs are actually better. 2 more attack and defence beats 2 more defence and 2 more armor.

  17. #47
    Member Member buddylee's Avatar
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    Long time lurker first time poster. These boards have given me endless amounts of pleasure while dealing witht he drudgery at work, so I thought I would add something for the others.

    Spain is one of my favorite factions. I usually play Spain on expert, not GA. I always pump out Peasants from Castille and Jinettes from Leon right off the bat. Get all my provences to the highest tax rate I can without rebellion, as building troops will quickly bankrupt you in Expert. I always take Naverra, Valencia and then Portugal. Portugal is always last, as you will need to leave a large garrison there to keep it from rebelling.

    I then mass troops until I run out of money, maily peasants, UM's, and as many Jinettes and archers as I can afford. I do almost no economic building at this point, straigt troop production except for border forts and keeps in the new provinces. After about 10 years or so, I hit the Elmo's in Cordoba. If the army is big enough, they usually just retreat to Morocco, or the castle. I leave a force in Cordoba and next turn attack Morocco, the Elmo's usually retrat again to Algeria. I then split the forces next turn, take Granada, and the Elmo's usually counter attack in Morocco. The Elmo's this early really have very little to counter Jinettes, and is they do, I usually target it first with the archers. They almost always break against my Morocco forces, and are not a threat from then on. I then take Algeria and Tunsia, and stop there. I leave a large force in Tunsia, but leave the Elmo's the last provice as a buffer between me and the Egyptians. I stop at Tunsia as it's the last good money province in North Africa, without fighting the Egyptians.

    Backin Europe I ally with everyone except the Argonese. I take my armies back to Castille, and then attack Aragon. At this point it my armies are usually large enough that they instantly retreat, or if they fight, I overwhelm them. If I am lucky the Argonese have taken Toulese, and I get that also. If not, I try and take Toulese as whenever I get the chance. Aragon, Naverra ( the reason I always take it), Castille, and Leon are my troop producing provinces. The all have iron, so they are perfect for this purpose. All other provinces are set up for economy, with 3 start pumping out ships, Portugal (+1 valor on galleys), Valencia, and Algeria usually. I like Toulese mainly to bulid it up for the +1 valor bonus for Chiv Knights. I grab Aquitainne if I can, to give me a buffer for my troop producing provinces.

    If this works, and it always does,I hold Aquitaine, Toulese, all of Spain, Morocco, Algeria, and Tunsia. I then turtle to give the AI a chance to develop me an opponent, wait until the 1200's and then attack whomever with a huge navy, and all teched out armies. The game is essentialy over once I get to this point in the early 1120's.

    The main problem with this strategy is that it works too well. It also doesn't help the AI come up with a dominate opponent for me. The French usually take western Europe and England, the Bzy or Egyptians battle it out in the east, but neither is a match. I am considering turtling for another 50-100 years until the 1300's just to see what happens. The French usually won't let me wait that long though, and the Bzy or Egyptians can never hold an empire together for that long.

  18. #48
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    if you do my initial blitz of Aragon and combine that with Crusade run, it works even better and faster.

    I franky think you are conservative and I would already consider what you described as fairly hardcore turtling.

    my turtling usually end with me thinking can't hurt to take another province, can it?

    How long does it take you to reach your turtle phase?

  19. #49
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    buddylee welcome to the Org

  20. #50
    Member Member buddylee's Avatar
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    I guess I am a hardcore turtler I usually reach this stage by about 1125-1130, maybe a bit earlier. I have always been a strategy game perfectionist, I like to build up my economies to maximum production and get everything just perfect. I do sometimes employ the rushes you and others talk about, I am not as good a general as most of you though, at least not yet. I do have a question though. Can I help the AI develop a dominate empire to oppose me? Such as if I pushed in North Africa and took Eqypt and maybe a few other provinces, would that weaken Eqypt to such a point that the Bzy or Turks would find it that much easier to grow? I do find in campaigns where I do not take Toulese or Aquitatine, the French grow considerably stronger. Any thoughts or suggestions?

  21. #51
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I suggested my sack of Toulouse through Aragon mainly to curb French power.

    good observation.

    In most games, the AI French wipes out or close to wipes out the Brits and puts a healthy dent in the HRE.

    if allowed to have Southern France, they will do this and often also have a sizeable fleet and turn into a veritable power.

    if denied southern france, the outcome is a lot less certain.

  22. #52
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    I guess... right now in my turk insane/early campaign the french owned all of the british isle and the former HRE land and was crushing italy of the the mainland.... and spain killed the almos... but using ships and agents and jihads i was able to relive the french of the british isles (along with a reemerging brit XD) and the Spaniards of the iberian and eventrually to obliviant... the french are still quiet powerful though but a small civil war and a reemerging HRE is weakening them a bit....

  23. #53
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    you can slow them destroying brits down by at least a decade for conquering Aquitaine and Toulouse

    and perhaps indefinitely if the HRE joins the party early.

  24. #54
    Member Member Archlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    oops, neglected to read the 2nd page before posting.
    Last edited by Archlight; 08-17-2004 at 03:37.
    Therefore, those who win every battle are not really skillful-those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are best of all. Sun Tzu

  25. #55

    Question Re: Spain

    Hello,

    I am a new member here but i have a huge question.

    While playing the spain on the campaigne i was doing great.

    I was making about 7000- 8000 florins a year profit.

    I decided it would be good to take out all of the people in my pininsula and eventually wiped the almohades at their own game. while conquering north africa i get this message 'You have 20 years left in this campaign.'
    so i decided to go north with my other 5 huge armies.

    At about 7 years left in the campaign i left my computer, got some supper, and came back. When i got back i saw a message on my screen that said this province has had a civil war witch side do you choose. of course i chose my side but when i looked all of my provinces and armies had turned to the almohades. the only explanation i could think of was that they had bribed all of my provinces against me. but it is impossible to bribe royalty. im sooooo confused and angry

  26. #56
    Chief Sniffer Senior Member ichi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Welcome to the Org Nuggetthegreat

    I copied your question over to the Main Hall, maybe it'll get more replies in there

    Click on this link
    Main Hall

    ichi
    Stay Calm, Be Alert, Think Clearly, Act Decisively

    CoH

  27. #57
    Member Member jacked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    How could all your porvinces get bribed

  28. #58

    Default Re: Spain

    I have no idea i thik it was civil war but i went back and i am owning as the spanish now me and aragon are trying to kill each other . im blowing him to pieces and he is trying to kill all of my generals with his 2 rank 5 grand inquisitors . but ive got many friends and the italians are next on my hit list lol its kinda like a big circle doing the same thing to each civ lol

  29. #59
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    I agree with Katank's method of going for the Aragonese. However, in early, I usually take out Cordoba turn 1 or 2 and push them all the back to the other side of Gibralter. I take the province there to consolidate in that direction. Then I bash the Aragonese and Portugal. I get crusade happy and take everything to the Sinai with them within not all that many turns.

    I got bored in that campaign and quit ... huge numbers of Santiagos get boring.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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  30. #60

    Default Re: Spain

    Played Spain with 1.0 version, GA, hard.
    I reached in year 1200 or so having exterminate Almohads (was too easy i think). i had a good income, around 1500-2000 per year. then next day i installed VI expansion (2.0) and realise, unless was my misestimation that my income rocketed and i have been still earning around 5000 per year. Is it VI more trade advantage style or i think so?
    and why really Spain consider as hard level? i have got around 25 provinces at year 1285 with 300.000 florins and 6-8000 income, is maybe the easiest nation i have picked up to today.

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