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Thread: Danish

  1. #91
    Retired Member matteus the inbred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Whenever I first installed MTW I looked through all the factions and thought "What's gonna be the hardest faction to win with?" and I saw the Danes. They had one measily province, and was somewhat "surrounded" by the Germans. So, I chose them, and massacred the map with them. I love the Danes.
    I second that, love the Danes, love huscarls and the seemingly endless stream of disposable heirs. Am currently experimenting with smacking the HRE from the off, as RVG correctly states, it's a paper tiger that dies ridiculously quickly when you attack in concert with the French, Italians, Poles etc. The real problem comes when you and the French run out of people to attack except for each other! It's hard to maintain a decently small border when you move south into Europe, and France is your main trading partner unless England survives.
    If you want a challenging 'one-province starter', try Aragon instead! I'm still working on that one...
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  2. #92
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish





    -ZainDustin

  3. #93
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    I'm not too sure, but do you think I'm going to win?



    I only had Denmark, Sweden, and Norway and the Egyptians made their way up and attacked me. I drove them completely back into Constantinople, no cheatcodes, manual moderations, or save and reloads.

    This actually happened a while back, but I wonder if anyone knows what the outcome will be... because I do.

    -ZainDustin

  4. #94
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    The Almohads also border me to the West up near Denmark. Europe's falling to Muslims!!!

    -ZainDustin

  5. #95
    Flavius Claudius Julianus Member NodachiSam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    I hope you win :D Your performance seems to be impressive.
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  6. #96
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    I did this a while back. They eliminated my army after a long battle, and my poor self and defenseless provinces were overtaken. The Egyptians started a series of attacks on Denmark, and it stayed alive for about 4 years of huge attacks. Then Denmark fell, and it didn't take long for Sweden and Norway to fall.

    I lost.

    -ZainDustin

  7. #97
    Flavius Claudius Julianus Member NodachiSam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Sorry to hear that Did you fail to hold constatinople or did you suffer venturing south?
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  8. #98
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    After the year that I show in the picture, they attacked me with all the fully stacked armies you see. I lost that battle. Then they easily drilled through my weak underbelly and killed me off.

    I was poor to plan, and didn't manage my money well. I guess I'm somewhat good at working under poverty.

    -ZainDustin

  9. #99
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    My current campaign with the Danes is the link in my signature. Take a look everyone! It's a very slow process though...

    -ZainDustin

  10. #100
    Banker Member De' Medici's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    2 years ago I played a campaign with the Danes, in GA, from early period.

    I decided to conquer only Scandinavia and build massively in these provinces. I trained an assassin, killed agents on the map, until he reached the maximum stars.

    I eliminated many factions, killing kings and all that. Of course that I loaded this campaign many times at the beginning, because of the death of the assassin. But in time I managed to be among the two factions in the GA panel, the Danes and the Turks if i remember well. After 1400, the Holy Roman Empire came back, along with the Burgundians. Starting in the first period, Russia is not present in the GA panel. So I let them live and develop. Also the Pope ruled all Italy

    I don't have the saved games anymore but I think I'm going to play in that manner another time and post some pics.
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  11. #101

    Default Re: Danish

    Playing the Danes.

    HEIR WANTED!
    Medium to large Kingdom needs an heir urgently. Good advancement possibilities, as you’ll be next in line to be king.
    Salary and working conditions to be negotiated.
    Seriously the AI is shafting me. I know that the program cheats, but as Poul Newman proved in the film “The Sting”, knowing that the opponent cheats opens up possibilities. But when the opponent not only sets the parameters of the game and enforces them and then resorts to cheating, it gets a bit disheartening.
    As with the allotment of heirs. Right now my king only has princesses, and won’t produce heirs.
    Now in all the games I’ve played I haven’t resorted to cheat codes, but as I like this game, and seem to be heading for an abyss, is there a code that will give me an heir, and if so how do I use it? Also this seems like one of those circustances a cheat code is necessary, because it is one of those things where no amount of gameplay and/or ingenuity can help you!
    One glaring example of the AI cheating is the use of assassins. By now I’ve got 2 six star units; and a some four and five in the wings, that I use to go king and heir hunting. Twice now I’ve gotten the “…this faction leader has no heir!” pop-up, but when the leader gets it in the neck, the next turn shows a new heir who has come out of the woodpile.
    Any solution to my problem???
    Please!!!

  12. #102

    Default Re: Danish

    I've had the hidden heir on assassination problem as well and I suspect it only happens once at most per ruler. It's never popped more than one for me.

  13. #103
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Arol
    As with the allotment of heirs. Right now my king only has princesses, and won’t produce heirs.
    Now in all the games I’ve played I haven’t resorted to cheat codes, but as I like this game, and seem to be heading for an abyss, is there a code that will give me an heir, and if so how do I use it? Also this seems like one of those circustances a cheat code is necessary, because it is one of those things where no amount of gameplay and/or ingenuity can help you!
    I don't think allotment of heirs is a cheating mechanism, rather a chance process that hasn't been optimized. However, you can get a heir by typing ".unfreeze." (without the quotation marks) on the campaignmap. I cannot help you with the hidden heir syndrome, however.
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  14. #104

    Default Re: Danish

    Hi all,

    I've started playing MTW:VI again, starting with the Danes.

    I started by taking hold of Sweden and Norway, building economic buildings such as ports and trading posts and shipbuilding in Denmark. Instead of going for the Baltic provinces my aim was to seize Scotland and Ireland before the English could.

    To my suprise my army of 400 vikings and royal knights were joined by the English Northumbrian Army. I let my English allies take the brunt of any Scottish attack, to the shame of the English they were completely routed & their General slain. The Scot's must have forgotten about my army which promptly charged their rear and slew them to a man as they were trapped between my army and that of the English who decided enough running away and screaming like girls and decided to fight.

    I wasn't expecting the fact that the English would take the province as they fielded the larger army. Feeling a little incensed at this I reloaded a previous few turns and promptly landed a larger army this time. Winning the battle outright the English still ran away screaming, so I decided to declare war and destroyed the Northumbrian Army on the same battlefield.

    Marching through Northumbria the remaining troops there fled to the fort. Instead of beseiging the fort I made for Mercia, to my suprise I took Mercia without a battle gaining a Castle and some decent buildings, now I can build Feudal Sergeants to bolster my army. I now proceeded to force the English out of Wales and Merica, when the English King decided to offer ceasefire by offering his only princess I accepted, he then proposed an alliance and the English holdings in France were being attacked by the French.

    I built up my new army of feudal sarge's, royal knights, vikings and landsmen to blitzkreig across French territory. My aim was to relieve any English forts beseiged by the French, gaining the appreciation for the English who were more than willing to forgive me for my past dealings with them. And low and behold on several ocassions they tagged onto my invasions into French provinces. I aimed for the French provinces that had castles and improved troop building facilities. Any other provinces had their buildings destroyed and armies put to the sword no ransoming unless I would get a lot of florrins for them. This left the French to deal with either more raids by me, the English, HRE or rebel uprisings.

    This left me to recoup any loses, and send any low value troops on suicide missions. I tend not to disband any troops as I have found I could face them as merc's. And sometimes they can supprise you and make gains.

    I'm aiming to get the English and French to border the Spanish and Aragoneese. Maybe aid them in the odd raid against Spanish and Alohmad provinces. I'm also using my mass army of sarges and knights to stomp all over HRE and drag the Polish, Hungarians and Italians into war with them also. Any attacks on my provinces usually have me marching onto where the attack comes from and wiping everything in that province out.

    My Danish army and navy is planning on making gains in the med as well to establish bases to raid and plunder the Papal States, Italians and Byzantines.
    If my blitzkreig tactic works on other factions I'll put it to good use.
    My tips for today:-
    If your allies aid your invasion of a rebel or enemy province make sure you field a bigger army and let the do all the dying. Why let your loyal troops die for you when you can have your allies do that instead, and if you feel that your allies are cowardly just put them to the sword as well as your enemy.

    If you can blitz enemy provinces and force them to retreat consider if the provinces is worth holding if not implement scorched earth policy and destroy any buildings and move on to a province with castles and superior troop building. Aim to hold and take this province, garisson it and build superior troops. Rinse and repeat.


    "Oh look a nice shiny new castle you shouldnt have built it for me, my battlehardend troops want to thank you properly for a job well done. Hmm running away screaming again oh well, probably dont want to get blood over your nice clean armor!" - King Olaf II

  15. #105
    Defeater of the Wicker People Member The Darkhorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Arol
    Playing the Danes.



    Seriously the AI is shafting me. I know that the program cheats, but as Poul Newman proved in the film “The Sting”, knowing that the opponent cheats opens up possibilities. But when the opponent not only sets the parameters of the game and enforces them and then resorts to cheating, it gets a bit disheartening.
    As with the allotment of heirs. Right now my king only has princesses, and won’t produce heirs.
    Now in all the games I’ve played I haven’t resorted to cheat codes, but as I like this game, and seem to be heading for an abyss, is there a code that will give me an heir, and if so how do I use it? Also this seems like one of those circustances a cheat code is necessary, because it is one of those things where no amount of gameplay and/or ingenuity can help you!
    One glaring example of the AI cheating is the use of assassins. By now I’ve got 2 six star units; and a some four and five in the wings, that I use to go king and heir hunting. Twice now I’ve gotten the “…this faction leader has no heir!” pop-up, but when the leader gets it in the neck, the next turn shows a new heir who has come out of the woodpile.
    Any solution to my problem???
    Please!!!
    This is common. I do occasionally wipe out a faction by assination or burning. It's not a hidden heir. What's happening is the AI is waiting for an heir to mature before letting you slit the king's throat. I've sent wave after wave (5-6 per turn) of high valour (mix of 3-7 stars) at a ruler for years. Occasionally you will get him before his heir matures. So, it is cheating, but not absolute cheating. If that doesn't make sense, then here's what I mean: The AI seems programmed to make it MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to kill the ruler if he has no heir. If you don't believe me, pay attention. The year (or within a couple) his heir matures, as he thumbs his nose at your inability to get him, that wave of assassins will get him. Look at the age of the new king. He will be at most 17 or 18. It's probably better and easier to assissinate the heirs. But, they are harder to get to as they may be buried in a stack where you can't get to them. Inquisitions have the same difficulty getting him till he has an heir. He can be running around naked, sh1tting on the alter, cursing God and bufu-ing the devil , but they can't burn him till his idiot son matures. It's blatant cheating, but it's still fun because, as I said it's not absolute...just very hard. I have gotten him before.
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  16. #106
    Man behind the screen Member Empirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    I don't agree on the hidden heir issue. I read about the Khan assassination trick on this forum, and having huge piles of gold to throw around (Egyptian game, VH, Early), I trained close to 20 assassins, most in the three star range, but with at least two five and one six star. The poor clergy of Egypt must have been shocked to find four or five alims murdered each year...
    Anyway, the Horde turned up as usual, bringing like ten stacks of good troops I itched to bribe. I had my assassins in Khazar, as well as a like amount of emissaries. The assassins were sent to kill the Khan, the emissaries waited till the deed was done. They ostensibly had no heirs, and the Khan went down easily. I think he fell to the third or fourth assassin to try his luck - which left me with plenty of able agents for later...! But instead of turning rebel, the Mongols stayed in the game, and a new king had come from nowhere, at 23 years of age! He couldn't have come from another province, as the Horde had only turned up in Khazar, and I had checked every stack thoroughly. Sound like a hidden heir to me!

    ADDENDUM: It might be that the new Khan had arisen in a kind of quick civil war... can that be?
    Last edited by Empirate; 08-16-2006 at 15:44.
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  17. #107
    Believer of Murphy's Law Member Sensei Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    More than once in this thread people have mentioned rushing Sweden on the first turn. If you rush with the King and the Vikings the Swedish rebels will retreat to Norway, and if you attack with just the King they will stay and fight.

    Well, I started a campaign as the Danish MTW/VI Early/Expert/TD and had an unusual outcome I thought I would share. On the first turn I moved the King into Sweden figuring I would give the inevitable battle a shot and see what happens. The rebels predictably stay and fight. I get slaughtered and my King killed and was forced to endure the Failed game screen.

    After a couple of vallent, but unsuccessful tries I decide to add the unit of Vikings and watch the Swedish rebels beat a hasty retreat. So I load up a game from the previous start point where the King is already positioned in Sweden, I plop the Vikings in Sweden next to the King (I did not put it in the King's stack), and ended the year.

    Lo and behold I am sent to the battle screen to fight the battle. Typically they retreat, but for some reason they decided to stay and I actually had a battle with the Swedish rebels using both my King and a Viking unit.

    Weird huh? I don't know but it seems like they stayed and fought because I put 2 single units in Sweden in different stacks. I don't know why that would make a difference but I figured I would share to possibly give another option to the first turn King to Sweden gambit.
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  18. #108
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Put the King and his bodyguard on a hilltop. You get a bonus for charging downhill. Repeat this a few times and the vikings are routed, leaving you "King of the Hill".
    If you would rather have them flee to Norway it's not really a problem. I have VI and with a 20% farm upgrade and a Horse Farm I can churn out some adequate horse units. They are the bane of the Vikings.
    Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.

  19. #109
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    The Danes

    Early, Expert, both GA and Conquest


    Have you ever wondered what the short end of the stick looks like? It looks like Denmark in Early.

    Your Danes start practically without land, income, troops, buildings, ships or agents. What they do have, right from the start, is a fickle neighbourhood. To make matters worse most of it is Catholic – and your mission is to conquer it because conquest is the name of your game.

    Even in GA mode, all you need to do for the first 213 years is hang on to your homeland of Denmark and conquer at least 32 other territories. No Crusades, no Cathedrals, no bling bling. You just have to attack, conquer and consolidate at least one country every six turns; keep the Pope happy; keep your populace happy; invade piss-poor islands with exotic names and build whole new armies there from nothing; train agents; prevent rebellions; ward off enemy assassins and inquisitors; build a huge fleet, and tech up like mad. Oh, and all this on 1 dollar a day.

    In the High period (after 1205) Livonia is added to your Homelands. In Late (after 1300) your Kalmar Union must top the German Hanse League in trade income as additional GA goal.

    Wat’s more, you can not pull off any opening blitzes, ransom parties, raids or stunts. Those are just not in the cards. On the other hand you can not afford to sit back and count your Vikings or you will be overrun.

    In short, the Danish faction is the toughest nut in the pack. Since we like ‘em that way, let’s get cracking.


    For starters we have:

    • one barely developed country
    • almost no income
    • almost no troops
    • a dynasty prone to all the known vices if you don’t let them fight often
    • an environment that is in constant flux for at least 50 years
    • one angry neighbour in Lederhosen
    • no ability to crusade
    • lots of deep water staring back at you



    Redeeming factors are:

    • lots of deep water staring back at the opposition (i.e. serving as your natural border)
    • Vikings "R" Us! You can raise them wherever you go. Alright, so can some of the neighbours; and alright, Norway has the better Vikings because of the provincial bonus. But it’s a start since Vikings are good value for your money in Early and Norway will be yours soon.
    • you have only two borders to defend; if you play it well you will have only one border to defend for a couple of years
    • the other factions’ emissaries will all come to you (this literally saves expenses)
    • rebel Sweden is ideal prey. It is weakly defended and it has an iron deposit, the largest granary around and a huge trading potential
    • you will be left alone by your Catholic neighbours as long as you don’t install huge armies in border provinces as your territory is not a GA goal for any faction


    Since the attitude of the neighbours as well as territorial changes in the region are different in each new Danish campaign, there is no ideal opening scenario. There are only general rules. In any case your goal should be to raise Denmark to the status of a regular Catholic kingdom by the year 1205.


    1. Take care of your income first or you will be bleeding interest by the year 1110.

    Trade is your lifeline for the first one hundred years, so Denmark goes to Keep right away, then to Shipwright, after which it starts pumping out bonus Longboats like there is no tomorrow. Send the ships into the Baltic first; you may need them right away against the Polish if you are unlucky. Meanwhile, raise Vikings and one or two Archer units.

    2. Ally like mad.

    Be nice to every Tom, Dick and Harry who comes along; you will have to make difficult choices between your allies (for instance the French and English) soon enough. And soon afterwards you will have to pick a preferred victim as well, a neighbouring country which you are going to completely take apart and conquer in the most treacherous fashion. Usually this is either the Holy Roman Empire, the Polish Kingdom or the English Kingdom.

    In case of distant alliances you should be clear in your preferences and stick to them. Be nice to the Italian signore who always gets there first (namely by sea) because you need his friendship if you want to keep your Mediterranean trading fleet afloat. Be very nice to the Papal emissary; you need the Pope’s backing against your neighbours. Besides, once His Holiness is in the money he will be sending you one-thousand-florin gifts for ‘services rendered to the Church’. Little does He know…

    3. As soon as you have your first heir (this should be around 1090) you take Sweden.

    There are various ways to go about it, all of them easy. However, if you want the rebel Vikings in Sweden to fight instead of flee to Norway (making that harder to take later on) you should bring either only your Royal Knights or one Viking unit plus one Archer unit. I prefer the latter because it trains a new General (you don’t have any other beside your ruler) which comes in handy in Norway later on.

    In any case, the Vikings in Sweden will stay and fight only as long as your combat strength does not exceed theirs. In order to find out, you can consult the Unit Comparison Tool of Clan Berserk. Click on the ‘units’ icon in the overhead menu bar, insert units and compare the combined Combat Ratings.

    Once you have taken Sweden, put a Governor with at least 4 Acumen in charge and queue the Watch Tower, Copper mine, 20% farming, Trading Post and Port there. After that, tech up to Metalsmith for your first weapons upgrade. Meanwhile, tech up to Armourer in Denmark. You will these upgrades to sustain your initial campaign of conquest. Always put quality above quantity.

    4. Take Norway around 1095.

    I don’t think you should wait and buy the Norwegian rebel army later on like some players suggest. Even if you can afford it, which is not sure at all, you will first need to train an Emissary. And in order to do that you need a Royal Palace which requires lots of money and years of construction which can be put to better use. So, attack Norway with whatever you can spare. Opinions differ on what units to bring. It’s up to you, but make it short and painless since you will need a sizeable garrison there for some time.

    After you have taken Norway, install a ‘friendly’ governor and queue a feel-good building followed by a Trading Post, Port, Keep and Shipwright.

    A word on Vikings
    From now on, train your Vikings in Norway for the Valour bonus, retrain them in Sweden to give them the weapons upgrade and/or retrain them in Denmark to give them the armour upgrade. As a result you are the owner of a bunch of nasty choppers and grinders which your rivals can not equal until 1205 when the Chivalric Men-at-arms come along. They are particularly effective against German peasant armies but they will eat Feudal Men-at-arms (who are armoured) as well.
    Apart from their anti-armour bonus, the Vikings' strength is in the 'shield wall', which means you should always put them on 'hold formation'. And since they have no rank bonus you can spread them thin, two ranks deep if need be, so they will not be surrounded by an enemy unit.
    When defending, let your Vikings hide in woods and jump the enemy armour first. When your Vikings have been decimated, retrain them locally – unless they are reduced to less than 40 men, in which case they would lose a valour point and you had better send them back to Norway for retraining.

    5. Further conquest will depend on your environment.

    The environment will change constantly in the first fifty years, and it will change differently in each new Danish campaign. However, the rebel territories should always come first. You can try and take some of the Baltic rebel states if the Germans or Polish haven’t beaten you to them. Or you can try and take rebel provinces in the British Isles. Always remember that you can land troops in provinces without ports, but you can not withdraw them from there if things go wrong. Wherever your expansion takes you, always build Trading Posts, Merchants, Ports and (if worthwhile) some agricultural upgrade first.

    6. Sooner or later you will have to crush another Catholic faction.

    If you are lucky, the Pope will let you fight other Catholics for quite a while. But be careful, you are still too weak to face multiple opponents. The Germans are watching you, so watch them. You wouldn’t be the first Danish player who forgets to do his daily Lederhosen-check and gets an unannounced visit from the Kaiser followed by the ‘bye-bye’ screen with the funny music before 1205.

    So, fight one faction at a time. Choose your victim carefully. See if he owns a fleet that can do considerable damage to yours. If you decide to attack, stick with him until you have eliminated his faction if you can. Meanwhile respect all other alliances and neutralities (and never oppose another faction's Crusade unless you are sure you can handle his fleet as well).

    Once you have chosen your victim, attack one of his provinces at a time. Start with territories that do not belong to his homeland or GA goals. Bring enough troops to finish it off in two turns: one turn for the battle, one turn for storming the castle – this way you will be safe if the Pope threatens excommunication after two years of hostilities. Offer a ceasefire (or force it) whenever you can. Bow out, smile in every direction. Lie low for a while. Then attack again. In particular, try to induce a civil war in your favourite victim’s camp, resulting in easy pickings. The Germans are always ready to go at each other’s throats should the Kaiser drop his clanger. Keep the other factions divided as best you can. The French and the English will be constantly at it; if one is winning, support the other and vice versa. Oppose a Crusade that belongs to another faction's GA goals whenever you can afford it. Kiss every Italian or Sicilian princess. Stay away from Byzantine uber-fleet concentrations, those guys are trigger-happy.

    7. Huscarls top Vikings, barques top longboats.

    Huscarls are Vikings with a vengeance, and it is personal. They are elite, armour-piercing and near-impenetrable on 'hold formation'. In Early you can just wind them up, let them loose and watch the show. Later on they still make great bridge-takers or bridge-defenders against spear-heavy enemies and even against Mongol Heavy Cavalry. Keep your Huscarls close to your commanders if you can. As a unit of last resort, Huscarls will never run without putting up a good fight to cover your retreat. Huscarls also make good governors with decent acumen and above average piety and loyalty.

    Train your Huscarls in Sweden (with the weapons upgrade) and retrain them in Denmark if possible to give them the armour upgrade as well, or vice versa. Your Huscarls should gradually replace your Vikings and Norway should take over shipbuilding (barques, not longboats) from Denmark which now has other priorities.

    8. Endgame

    By 1205 you should have made significant inroads into the European mainland and taken the odd island in the Mediterranean, a strip of Barbary Coast (Northern Africa) and/or part of Britain. Your financial worries should be over (at least 200.000 florins in the bank) and tech-wise you should be ready for the conversion of your forces into regular Catholic armies. No more Viking nostalgia, although you may want to maintain some uber-Huscarls as flankers in your Royalty’s armies (something I prefer). So, start churning our those Chivalric Sergeants and Pavised units in readiness for the Horde.

    If the Byzantines dominate the Mediterranean by this time, they will not be in the least impressed by the Mongol invasion. Byzantium will fight both you and the Horde at the same time, so don’t be surprised if you have to face the yellow Horde and purple Jedi simultaneously. Don't ever forget that you are not fighting the 'Byz', the 'Almos' or the 'Spanish' - you are fighting a machine, called 'AI', which controls all other factions and may make them act in a coordinated fashion to take you down a peg or two. Consider it an honour if they try.

    The rest, as they say, is history.
    Last edited by Adrian II; 02-15-2007 at 19:50.
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  20. #110

    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    A word on Vikings
    From now on, train your Vikings in Norway for the Valour bonus, retrain them in Sweden to give them the weapons upgrade and/or retrain them in Denmark to give them the armour upgrade. As a result you are the owner of a bunch of nasty choppers and grinders which your rivals can not equal until 1205 when the Chivalric Men-at-arms come along. They are particularly effective against German peasant armies but they will eat Feudal Men-at-arms (who are armoured) as well.
    Apart from their anti-armour bonus,
    the Vikings' strength is in the 'shield wall', which means you should always put them on 'hold formation'. And since they have no rank bonus you can spread them thin, two ranks deep if need be, so they will not be surrounded by an enemy unit.
    When defending, let your Vikings hide in woods and jump the enemy armour first. When your Vikings have been decimated, retrain them locally – unless they are reduced to less than 40 men, in which case they would lose a valour point and you had better send them back to Norway for retraining.
    A great post Adrian II! Can I be so bold as to query this section though?

    The blurb in the description for "Vikings" does indeed mention about the Vikings' strength being in the "shield wall", but this does not really apply to the unit. The Viking stats are:

    Charge: 3, Attack: 3, Defence: 0, Armour: 2, Morale: 4

    As you can see they're nothing special in the defensive department. Compared with Feudal Men At Arms:

    Charge: 3, Attack: 3, Defence: 2, Armour: 3, Morale: 2

    The key difference here is the base defense, armour and morale values, as well as the Vikings' AP ability. These units are essentially attackers. They don't get any attack/defence bonuses vs cavalry, the Vikings do get their attack bonus vs armoured troops of course. With upgrades the Vikings become the stronger unit, and this down to the higher starting morale, the AP ability. The valour bonus region is another advantage. While the Vikings don't get a valour bonus from a dependancy building, and the Feudal Men at Arms do, teching up to a Master Swordsmith in the early era is no small task.

    In view of all this I'm not sure why I would put Vikings, in particular, on hold formation and try to use them defensively. If I were to do this, I would presumably do the the same with FMAA, and going by the stats above they would be better suited in some respects. The only time I would place any sword infantry on hold formation (excepting desperate situations where you have no spears, and a few exceptional units such as VG and Huscarles), would be in certain cases when charging, to prevent them forming into a "swarm". As soon as the charge hits home, I will change them back into engage at will. Also there are certain cases where it is desirable for infantry to plug a gap (spears are general better for this, but on some occasions units other types of Infantry can do the job), having the unit on engage at will causes men to stray and the unit to lose cohesion rapidly. It is then easily flanked and destroyed.

    Good to see someone else that appreciates the Vanilla Vikings by the way!

    Last edited by caravel; 02-07-2007 at 14:43.

  21. #111
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Good to see someone else that appreciates the Vanilla Vikings by the way!



    We are of one mind when it comes to that. One particular charm of this game is that nearly all factions have certain more or less unique units and I always treat these with particular respect.

    On topic though, let me try and answer your point. I believe you are counting without the Norwegian valour bonus, even though you mentioned it. This is essential.

    The +1 Norwegian valour bonus adds +1 Attack, +1 Defense and +2 Morale points. Now if you put your Vikings on ‘hold formation’ as I recommend, they suffer -2 Attack and gain +2 Defense points. Together with an armour-piercing bonus against FMAA of +1 Attack, you get some really nice stats. In 'Hold Formation' your Vikings' Attack doesn't suffer fatally, whilst their Defense benefits considerably from the formation.

    Vikings: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 3 Armour 2 Morale 5

    All in all this makes them superior to ordinary Feudal Men-at-arms:

    FMAA: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 2 Armour 3 Morale 2

    Of course upgrades add to the stats on both sides, but if you tech up to Metalsmith in Sweden and to Armourer in Denmark (skip the Swordsmith in both provinces!) and then process your Norwegian Vikings through these upgrades, they are a killing machine in Early. That’s what I was saying. You are of course right that your ordinary Viking is slightly inferior to your ordinary FMAA.

    As for the added effectivity of the 'shield wall', I couldn't vouch for the existence of any 'shield wall bonus'' . To me this is just another, historically more correct name for 'Hold formation'. I like to think that the developers, who introduced all those special units with such love and care, intended it that way when they wrote the blurb.

    Hope this didn't sound too stupid.
    Last edited by Adrian II; 02-07-2007 at 19:12.
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  22. #112

    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    I believe you are counting without the Norwegian valour bonus, even though you mentioned it. This is essential.
    I was trying to include it, unfortunately I probably wasn't very exacting. My point about it was, that the Vikings don't get a valour bonus from e.g. a master spearmaker or a master swordsmith, wheras units such as FS and FMAA do, but of course that take a lot more teching up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    The +1 Norwegian valour bonus adds +1 Attack, +1 Defense and +2 Morale points. Now if you put your Vikings on ‘hold formation’ as I recommend, they suffer -2 Attack and gain +2 Defense points. Together with an armour-piercing bonus against FMAA of +1 Attack, you get some really nice stats. In 'Hold Formation' your Vikings' Attack doesn't suffer fatally, whilst their Defense benefits considerably from the formation.

    Vikings: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 3 Armour 2 Morale 5

    All in all this makes them superior to ordinary Feudal Men-at-arms:

    FMAA: Charge 3 Attack 3 Defense 2 Armour 3 Morale 2

    Of course upgrades add to the stats on both sides, but if you tech up to Metalsmith in Sweden and to Armourer in Denmark (skip the Swordsmith in both provinces!) and then process your Norwegian Vikings through these upgrades, they are a killing machine in Early. That’s what I was saying. You are of course right that your ordinary Viking is slightly inferior to your ordinary FMAA.
    This is all very true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    As for the added effectivity of the 'shield wall', I couldn't vouch for the existence of any 'shield wall bonus'' . To me this is just another, historically more correct name for 'Hold formation'. I like to think that the developers, who introduced all those special units with such love and care, intended it that way when they wrote the blurb.

    Hope this didn't sound too stupid.
    You have made a very good case for using Vikings defensively in the early period. I wonder how they would do in the place of Feudal Sergeants? :

    Vs Infantry:
    Charge: 5 Attack: 0 Defence: -1 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

    + Hold Formation:
    Charge: 5 Attack: -2 Defence: 1 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

    Vs Cavalry:
    Charge: 5 Attack: 1 Defence: 3 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

    + Hold Formation:
    Charge: 5 Attack: -1 Defence: 5 Armour: 1 Morale: 2

    I'm guessing that at the end of the day that +5 defence bonus may swing it in their favour, build some churches and get the morale upgraded and it looks even better.

    Last edited by caravel; 02-08-2007 at 14:15.

  23. #113
    Member Member Caerfanan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Arol
    One glaring example of the AI cheating is the use of assassins. By now I’ve got 2 six star units; and a some four and five in the wings, that I use to go king and heir hunting. Twice now I’ve gotten the “…this faction leader has no heir!” pop-up, but when the leader gets it in the neck, the next turn shows a new heir who has come out of the woodpile.
    Any solution to my problem???
    Please!!!
    Now I think I have an answer. I think that the assassin text is based on wether or not the king has sons who would be his heirs. But the king's brothers can inherit the kingdom, would that poor king die choking on a chicken breast. I get it's only a "bug" in the assassination outcome pannel, forgetting that the brothers could take the throne.

    My two cents!

  24. #114
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Hmm,

    I got a hankering to play the Danish last night, so I gave it a shot: Early, Hard, GA. Turn 1 (1088) I stayed in Denmark and built an archer. 1089, I sent the king, the viking and the archer into Sweden, I build another viking unit in Denmark.. I thought the rebels might stick around, as they were only outnumbered by 20 men. No such luck, away they went. Fine by me. 1090 I move the thralls from Denmark up to Sweden, move the King back to Denmark and add another viking. In 1091, my heir arrives, along with a unit of Landsmenn (they seem to get better accumen then vanilla vikings, and I still didn't have a governor for Denmark, though I did for Sweden). I slide the archers from Sweden down to Denmark.

    So, now I'm faced with a dilmena. I could wait for ships (4 more years to get a keep, 4 more to get a shipyard and 3 to get a ship itself, really 6 for 2 ships) or I could take the shortcut to Lithuania. And that's what I decided to do. The Holy Roman Emperor made this effort too alluring, as he pulled one of his vikings and his spearmen out of Saxony, leaving only 3 vikings. So, I went for it! The vikings holded up in Dresden.

    Now, I'm sitting at work, having a mental debate. On the plus side, the HRE outnumbers me in terms of provinces immensely. The more time I give them to tech up, the more I'm signing my own death warrant. I'm thinking Friesland, not Pomerania, will be my next stop (keep the Kaiser's boats out of my lake). But before I persue an anti-Teutonic strategy for the rest of what could be a long but hopeless campaign, I'm just worried with this approach. Has anybody else tried this, forgoing everything but Sweden, even waiting to take Norway, in favor of hitting Saxony early?

    Thoughts? Am I doomed?
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 02-12-2007 at 21:32.
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  25. #115

    Default Re: Danish

    Was it an HRE faction leader you were trying to assassinate? The HRE will elect a new emperor from among their generals if the current one dies heirless. The same goes for the Pope. He doesn't produce heirs, so the best general becomes the next pope. If you keep assassinating, a new pope still appears even if there are no units.

  26. #116
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Hagen
    Now, I'm sitting at work, having a mental debate. On the plus side, the HRE outnumbers me in terms of provinces immensely. The more time I give them to tech up, the more I'm signing my own death warrant. I'm thinking Friesland, not Pomerania, will be my next stop (keep the Kaiser's boats out of my lake). But before I persue an anti-Teutonic strategy for the rest of what could be a long but hopeless campaign, I'm just worried with this approach. Has anybody else tried this, forgoing everything but Sweden, even waiting to take Norway, in favor of hitting Saxony early?

    Thoughts? Am I doomed?
    It really depends. The key question is this: Is the HRE at war with anyone besides yourself? If they are, then you should be able to pull it off without much difficulty, as it's they usually don't manage a two-front war very effectively. It especially helps if one of the other of Germany's combatants is the French -- they generally give the Imperials as good as they get.

    If you're the Germans' sole enemy, however, then you may be in for a spot of trouble, as they can (and will) concentrate all their efforts and resources upon yourself. You *can* ride it out provided you win a couple brilliant defensive victories, but it's definitely tough doing so. Generally your best bet in those situations is to hang on until the HRE gets excommed and/or falls into civil war.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  27. #117
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Hagen
    Thoughts? Am I doomed?
    Yes. Unless the HRE are fighting on two fronts, you're dead. Basically. Not in the next turn, but after,say, another ten or fifteen turns when you find yourself broke and unable to build that fleet. But hey, give it a shot anyway. You're the only human around in this game, that should count for something.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  28. #118
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    In for a penny, in for a pound I always say....

    I had 1/2 hour this morning. I took Friesland and Pomerania. In both cases, the HRE (and the Rebels, respectively) retreated, so I didnt' get any cheap spearmen victories (the HRE and the rebels were all spear armies... I can only imagine the valor I would have racked up in those confrontations).

    My main thought on taking Friesland was that now I can keep my sole enemy, the HRE, out of the North Sea and my trading can progress unharrassed. I sent my first daughter down to court the old codger and his 8-fingered, no-opposable-thumb heir. The emperor is sitting right in Franconia so he's not that far away.

    I don't think the HRE is at war with anyone else, but surprisingly, he's not teching up in my area (neither Lorriane, Franconia or Brandenberg even have a fort yet, and we're 9 years into the game).

    Anyway, I'm done with my hostilities with the HRE for now. I hope they take peace. I had two goals: 1) keeping black flags out of the North Sea and 2) having a land bridge to my fortcoming Baltic colonies. My King already has an influence of 6 due to his conquests. I think taking Norway will push him up to 7. So I need to wait for him to pass and let his son invade Lithuania (the reigonal HQ) and lead troops into Prussia, Livonia, Kiev from there.

    I know people claim there's no such thing as an influence bug, but when the influence wraps around, it's not 12 or 13, it's 2 or 3 cause I always get crappy heirs (and somehow, they always come of age when the king's influence is on the low end of the wrap-around).

    I'll keep you posted...
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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  29. #119
    Member Member Caerfanan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    This wrapping around influence looks like a bit more than a little itch in the neck... What version of the game do you have?

    Playing mostly in the viking campaign, I have'nt checked how influence was going for my king (alliances are not very reliable...), but I wonder for my futeures game in the "normal" campaigns...

  30. #120
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danish

    I've got VI installed so it should have all the patches. I can't check the exact revision code, but if it's a version-bug that i haven't ever updated over all these years, I'm going to kick myself.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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