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Thread: Danish

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    early
    Lional of Cornwall
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    high
    Lional of Cornwall
    proud member of the Round Table Knights
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    late
    Lional of Cornwall
    proud member of the Round Table Knights
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

  4. #4
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ April 06 2004,18:47)]early
    MTW/VI, GA-goal style.

    To create a Danish superpower early on trade and thus ship- building is the key to a sucessful campaign. Since I tend to kick back and relax from the conquest part of the game this guide is not for the land-hungry player.

    Main goals:
    1. Trade, ships to connect your Scandinavian kingdom.
    2. How to afford military build-up.
    3. More lands and the need for conquest. Most players argue to go for HRE early but I disagree since I found that most of the time you´ll lack the funds to maintain this hot-zone with troops and it´s far more important, if you want to meet the GA goals, to dominate Baltic trade.

    This is how I usually start the game:
    1087 AD Build keep and more troops in Den.
    1090 AD Take Swe. Que up watchtower, fort, +20% farm upgrade and coppermine.
    1095 AD Take Norway and que up like in Swe. Build peasants as gov´s in Swe.
    1100 AD Add trading-posts and ports to the que´s in Swe and Nor. And shift peasant-gov´s to Nor while build vikings in Swe to re-inforce you main army. Que 3 ships in Denmark.

    Around 1102-04AD I tend to get my first insufficiant funds messages so I stop all buildings except the gov- production. It´s really important to not stop this until you reach a 5 acc govc in each prov. You might even be down to 100 fl/ year. The status now is that all three provs should have fort, watch-tower, +20% farming, mines, ports and trading-posts. You should also have 2-3 ships and a full stack-army.

    Here is where I differ from most players that go for HRE to expand the kingdom. I make peace with HRE and go for all the rebels around the Baltic sea; Pomerania, Prussia, Lithuania, Livonia. I appoint high acc gov´s (5) to theese provs and don´build anything, yet, except a watchtower and a fort (to retreat to if attacked).
    Between around 1105-1110 AD I conquer theese four provs with my only army and builds a port in Pom to be able to get back to Den after the conquest. Now, I prioritize up-grading farms and mines in Den, Swe and Nor to get closer to being able to produce troops there and add income which I then re-invest in income up-grades in the Baltic sea provs which I the can use for producing more troops in Scandinavia. By now Den is pumping out ships and you can build additional troops in both Swe and Nor. Around 1115Ad you would be able to make 1000 fl/ year in profit and by 1125Ad you´ll double that to 2000 fl/ year.

    From here you can either sit back and play strictly GA-style or take out Novgorod, conquer some HRE-provs, conquer Scotland/ Ireland etc. By 1137AD you should be making around 4.000 fl/ year in profit and even 10 years later you should have around 30-40.000 fl. in the bank. Good Luck




  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    an alternative is to instead of attcking HRE to go for the English and take all of the British Isles and Flanders.

    that way, you have two 1 province borders and this wouldn't increase until you go for the Baltic rim.

    It seems inevitable that you come into conflict with the Polish though as they want the Baltic provinces as much as you do.

  6. #6

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    My early strategy is pretty similar to PseRamesses. I queue watchtowers and keep upgrade immediately on first turn in Denmark and start pumping out about five units of vikings. I usually attack Sweden on the second turn (1088), forcing the rebels to retreat to Norway with my King and two units of vikings.

    Once Sweden is taken I queue watchtowers, copper mine and fort, I leave the farm upgrade till later as I'm more concerned with containing costs and spending as little money as possible for quick expansion. I keep pumping out vikings until I have about 10 units of them.

    Usually I leave Norway till later as I don't want to waste troops taking the province and garrisoning it. Once Denmark has upgraded to a Keep I start building the Shipyard and start pumping out longboats. As soon as the first ship is built I rush Pomerania and take it before Poland. Sometimes they get it first much to my annoyance. Once my second ship is built I put it into the Baltic sea and try to get Finland before the Novgorods, like the Polish, sometimes they beat me to it too.

    Once they are secure I take Prussia, Lithuania and Livonia, building only watchtowers,docks, mines and forts. I don't upgrade to border forts till later as by this stage my funds are getting rather low and I'd rather put the money towards expanding my ships. I also only build trading posts in Lithuania, Sweden, Denmark and Pomerania as they give the best bang for buck. I don't do anymore upgrades until I start getting a better return in trade.

    As soon as I have four ships and can reach Ireland, I conduct a viking raid on it and secure it before one of the other factions do and then try to take Scotland next.

    From here on (usually about 1125) I sit back and concentrate on building up my provinces and economy, taking the odd German province if any rebellions arise too. Once I am feeling more confident I either take out the Novgorods or pick on the Germans.

    I usually specialise my provinces like this:

    Norway: Spears
    Sweden: Swords
    Denmark: Ships & Missile
    Pomerania: Militia/Halberdiers
    Prussia: Ships and Siege
    Lithuania: Cavalry
    Livonia: Strategy units
    Finland: Strategy units
    Ireland: Ships
    Scotland: Whatever

    That should be enough to get people up and going.

  7. #7

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    hmm, well i am always too tempted to take all of british isles as quickly as possible, so that's what i go for
    pillage, plunder, burn...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    @opeth, I suggest at least 20% in sweden as farms pay off faster than mines and sweden is a good agricultural province.

    also, norways has a valour bonus for vikings and it shouldn't be used for spears.

    thralls make reasonable spear before you can get feudal sergeants and I don't see any need for FMAA when V1 viking are better as well as huscarles.

    also, border forts are useful as the +10 loyalty actually reduces costs in the long run.

  9. #9
    Member Member Kristaps's Avatar
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    EARLY: NORWAY ISSUE...

    Hmm, taking Norway is actually my #1 priority when playing Danish in Early. Norway has +1 Valor bonus to vikings... And, you need only a fort to get those guys meaner guys with axes... :)

    I Attack Sweden in year 1087: just with my King and 1 unit of vikings. The AI still retreats... :)
    Kristaps aka Kurlander
    A Livonian Rebel

  10. #10
    Member Member Kristaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ May 20 2004,11:43)]@opeth, I suggest at least 20% in sweden as farms pay off faster than mines and sweden is a good agricultural province.
    Actually, there was a calculation here in the forum which showed that mines have the shortest payback from all upgrades...
    Kristaps aka Kurlander
    A Livonian Rebel

  11. #11

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    I still build a farm and mining complex in Sweden but not in the first 20 years or so. The 1500 florins I'd spend on these improvements I'd rather put towards a keep upgrade in another province and start pumping out ships for trade.

    I try to avoid 'insufficient funds' messages, hence my choice to not go for farm upgrades immediately and concentrate more on establishing trade routes first, especially as the Danish don't own a handful of provinces at the start like other factions do. If I am playing one of the other more province rich factions (like England or HRE) then I will invest earlier in farming then I do with the Danish.

    Never really crossed my mind about the +1 valour bonus in Norway, maybe I'll grab that right after Sweden next Danish game I play and see how things go.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    It's hard to say whether to take norway.

    if I rush, then yes as though it's not economically viable to garrison, the early boost to vikings make them better than FMAA and they also get AP.

    if turtling, it's not worth it and I get trade going before norway as it's a real trade province and isn't worth anything before trade.

    it's also no easy task to kill off 6 vikings early on.




  13. #13
    Member Member Kristaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ May 20 2004,20:20)]It's hard to say whether to take norway.

    if I rush, then yes as though it's not economically viable to garrison, the early boost to vikings make them better than FMAA and they also get AP.

    if turtling, it's not worth it and I get trade going before norway as it's a real trade province and isn't worth anything before trade.

    it's also no easy task to kill off 6 vikings early on.
    I take Norway a couple years after I get a fort in Sweden. My way of killing the six norge vikings: about 3-4 vikings from Denmark, the king and his two heirs (he has two by the time Swedens has a fort), a couple woodsmen from Sweden (cost savings: they cost only 22 per year to feed) and 3-4 archers from Denmark. Once in Norway: I pull them one by one using the archers: thin them out with arrows, charge with a viking unit and crush with the royals from the rear.

    At the time, when I attack Norway, Denmark has only one spearman unit garrisoning it and Sweden has no garrison except the woodsman unit coming out of the training camp the year after. I am allied with Germans by this time also.

    As to garrisoning Norway: I don't know what you guys are doing, but I've never had problems with it... The first year after I crush the initial 6 viking rebels there, I leave a couple woodsmen units garrisoning it. After I get the guard tower, border tower: it's only one thrall unit - basta. In the initial years after taking it, I might have a rebellion, but it's usually easy to crush and profitable too. With a fort and militia qurters up it's a loyal province of the kingdom in no time, same as denmark and sweden.

    Of course, in the initial years, I am taking some risks (i.e., Germans might attack Denmark while the king is campaigning in Norway, or someone might land a sea-born company in the province before I have my fleet establish control of the region).

    I will try to post the exact sequence one of these days here ;)

    My typical building sequence for Norway is:

    1. A fort (I don't build the guard towers first since I like rebellions: I just hear that jinxy sound of money coming into my coiffers as soon as I see the rebellion popup): I just cannot wait to get those +1 valor vikings out.

    2. A trader and a port (by this time I'd have longboats coming out of Denmark already).

    3. Keep and a church (morale boost for the vikings); then an armorer.

    4. I stubbornly refuse to use landsmen and huscarles... I guess, I like the Danish in the Early, the way they were before the VI expansion :)))



    Kristaps aka Kurlander
    A Livonian Rebel

  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    it's not too bad to kill the vikings there but still, the garrison takes costs as I don't use rebellions for money although perhaps I should.

    landsmenn aren't worth it over vkings esp. since you get a discount for vikigns and they are only 133 while landsmenn are 200.

    the +1 viks from norway also are superior.

    I find it difficult to believe that you forgo huscarles though as they are the one of the best infantry units around and beat CMAA easily.

  15. #15
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Take scandanavia fast..... and then take the province directly under denmark (saxon something I have a chinese version of hte game:/) to act as a buffer zone and also give you to option to strike at a huge number of province when you want to.

    Then try to build up and take finland/scotland/ireland when possible.... invading the british isle is usually the easist and simplist.. like others said u still have one boder that way... now you have 3 border along with flanders and finland (though u can choose to expand a bit in this direction ... or hold it with a small garrison) almost all ur land have good trade, go for it... once u link up ur trade rout u'll be so flithy rich you can do anything... I usually just sit back and wait for chances to take rebel lands. then when ur rdy overrun western europe and later the iberians fast. then go through north africa as the hoard should be helping u tear up east europe and mid east... clear them up using stratigic units and then at last take the italian penensulas and the damn pope.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    finland? it's a pretty worthless province IMHO.

    Novgorod would be better.

    sure they have jedi boyar generals but your huscarles can maul them.

  17. #17
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Finland has trading and is extremely easy to take usually.... that's why I take it... if i can get my shot at norvogod then yes I go for that too as it's a pretty rich province and also have trading....

  18. #18
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    it's only 1 trade good though and it's not very loyal.

    it also serves little strategic purpose unlike novgorod or other baltic provinces.

    after securing novgorod, livonia, lithuania, etc. then go after finland.

  19. #19
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    That works too, except that I like to start with finland as a. it tend to be badly defended and b. it's on the road to novorgod anyway :P

    Anyway in my current danish (early/GA/hard) campaign i'm still in second place in GA score with about 90 years left:/, spain is in the lead cause it managed to go all the way from the iberians to the middle east (thus completeling a **** load of GA goals) while I have all of the baltic and acturally every costal province along the northern part of the map and most of the stepps ... but now I'm out to kill Spain as obvioulsy I nee to kill them if I want to win by GA score (I can crush the rest of them too I guess but easier to just kill spain :P)

    So now I'm using the scorch earth hide and seek tactic against them landing mutliple assuals on the iberian and than running from one province to another... working really well as I manage to take out a HUGE amount of their troops this way as their forces split and manage to squeeze out gold in the process to help finace the war (having trouble running trade route now everyone is against me and I have to keep 3 ship in every water in the med to not get sinked )

    Anyway I now have the iberians under my belt and probably win anyway thx to homeland score diff....

  20. #20
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    hey mate try medmod then your danish longboats get sunk by the smart AI

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    In medmod, I doubt the Danes can even get a single ship into the med

  22. #22

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    I only try and get Finland early because I'd rather have it then let them stink'n Novgorods get it

  23. #23
    Member Member yalpe's Avatar
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    I tried a different approach to make the conquest of Norway much easier. This was on normal difficulty so I don't know if it would work on harder modes but I will try in the future for sure.

    In 1087, attack Sweden with your king alone. This way they AI won't retreat and you will get to fight them. If you win, it is -120 vikings to fight in Norway and it isn't really hard to win 21 vs 120 on normal. I proceeded like this :

    Close in to the first squad of enemy vikings so they charge you, then tell your knights to charge to the left and begin a flanking motion until you are behind their general's squad, and charge them, this way, the first squad will be stuck behind the general's one and they won't attack, soon you should kill the general and their moral at the same time making them rout. Fall back a little and charge the other squad immediatly. You should win this with a few casualities (I had 6 deaths) but they should rout pretty fast. You can then capture the rest of the vikings.

    Now you will get to fight 240 vikings instead of 360 in norway.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    that's quite interesting.

    will give that a whirl

    it's a bit cheesy though to exploit the jedi general and replenshing king unit but I do that all the time.

    having 240 viks to face is certainly easier than 360. good tip

  25. #25
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    Sorry katank haven't read this for a while, as the danes in scandinavia you CAN'T get a boat to scandinavia. you can't go past portrugal. problem solved.

  26. #26

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    I do not know if this is a bug or what but many times i've played the danes , when in the later stages it's hard to produce male heirs. When I was almost conquered the whole world my line ended... :-(
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    it's weird but I think you need to be really proactive about plying for princesses.

    at least it isn't as bad as this guy who had his king die in 1453 and the line with it.

  28. #28
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    .unfreeze. is the only cheat code i sanction for the above reason

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    so true, me too.

    I hate having my line wiped out.

    However, this also requires limiting.

    One must restrict to at most 1 .unfreeze. per monarch or one can build an army of RKs really fast by doing this every turn.

  30. #30
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    too true,
    OT Katank you've got nearly 15 fliiping posts a day

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