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  1. #1
    Man behind the screen Member Empirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    I recently played a Late, Hard, GA HRE game. It basically goes exactly as an early game, except you don't have to worry about crusades to the holy land for GA points. I never quite figured out how to "control" two thirds of North Sea trade. I had games in which the Germans were down to three provinces, one of them coastal, having no ships whatsoever, and were still awarded the points. In my game I was the only one having fleets in the North Sea (everybody had turned on me, you know...), and I didn't get the points. Strange, to say the least.
    Anyway, I started by putting all of my armies together, as in the first few turns nobody is likely to start a war with you, giving you a breathing span of probably six to eight years. I blitzed the Poles, which is only sensible, and also secured Lithuania by crusade from Prussia. I kept up the crusade production there, mainly to come by some nice Teutonic Knights. You can't easily produce knights anywhere, and you definitely need some heavy cavalry. I also killed the Swiss, if only for producing Swiss Halberdiers and Pikemen. This can be skipped, though, as it cost me A LOT of men. Produce lots of Crossbowmen and Arbalesters, once you can get them, and send them east.

    The Hungarians have no other way of expanding than attacking you: In the south they're usually held off by either Turks or Byzantines, and in the east the Horde looms rather large. Against the Hungarians and the Horde, you need a decent supply of superior foot missile units to beat their endless waves of Horse Archers, Szekely, and whatnot. In my game I tried to get a short border to the east (Lithuania plus Kiev are ideal), had a lengthy and rather bloody war against the Hungarians in which I was finally able to push them out of Bulgaria and Hungary proper, securing short borders there, too.

    The need for short borders is obvious: You have a large territory and are vulnerable all over. I basically kept one large army per region and defended most provinces with just one unit of crap, to withdraw into the castle once attacked. I could then free the province using the larger army. Key is to outmaneuver the enemy and destroy their actual fighting force. You need to be good on the battle map for this, so you can conserve your troops, as reinforcements usually take a long time getting to the front.

    The west was difficult as well, but I had the good luck that the English were (unusually) able to take much of France and hold on to it, buying me some time. If the French seem to be winning against the English, though, stab them in the back as soon as possible. They MUST NOT become a power. Take Lorraine and Burgundy to shorten the border. England left me alone for quite a while, but I kept some armies on that border just in case, so they tied up troops just as if there's been a real threat. The Italians usually concentrate on shipbuilding, trade and overseas expansion, so I left the southern border mostly unguarded. In most of my HRE games, this has proven a viable course of action, as the Italians rarely attack and you simply don't have the armies to defend on all fronts.

    Strategically, it is defend-where-you-can, expand-where-it-makes-defense-easier, then. What about money? It's tight. Real tight. And it will stay tight. Try to make the most out of plunder: I went into a building and troop-training spree every time I was able to take a rich province. Try to develop some trade, but don't get your hopes up too much: It takes a while for trade to repay the initial investments of Port, Trader, and many many ships. Besides, you don't have many provinces on the sea, and not all of these have trading goods. I concentrated on farming and mines instead. I typically built 20% and 40% farming as soon as possible and assigned good governors, as well as maxing out tax income. More advanced farms are not recommendable, as they take too much money out of your treasury and don't repay the investment for a long while. Don't waste money on anything you don't need RIGHT NOW. Especially don't bribe anything, don't use mercenaries.

    You can make do with your own troops - it's a large country, and in many provinces there's some halfway decent unit to be trained. Just make sure you move these to any of your several fronts on a regular basis - and don't commission too many troops for training, only where you really need them. I had to make do with armies composed of mostly inferior troops for the period, as knights are simply unavailable, and arbalesters need some building up to get. But Chivalric Men-at-Arms can be trained in at least two places, and Halberdiers were a staple of my armies (try to build at least a church where you train them, though!). Still, it was uphill fighting for a long while, Crossbowmen and Militia Sergeants against a lot of Chivalric units in Hungary, and against Mongol Heavy Cavalry, Warriors and Mounted Archers in the east. Be sure to secure some other advantage, like numbers, rain (against archer-heavy armies) and terrain, and keep your casualties low.

    In my game I now have a secure east, with Lithuania, Kiev, Bulgaria, Hungary and Austria being my border provinces. In the west the English (very powerful now) have taken to attack me, but I could beat their Longbowmen-Billmen-combo by using heavy rain and exclusive melee heavy-hitters (CMAA, and lots of them). This destroyed their most elite army, and I was able to push them out of Flanders. I'm trying to hold at this point and concentrate on naval warfare (slowly turning the table round to my side there as well).
    My plans are consolidating a little more, and especially teching up a little. My domain is now so large that I can actually make a little money as long as I look to how I spend it.
    Last edited by Empirate; 08-03-2006 at 10:09.
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  2. #2
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    Good late strategy. They should have followed it when I was playing Burgundy in Late XL. Now they have to make due with Kazar and Georgia.


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  3. #3
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    One problem with playing the HRE faction is that the entire game is basically determined within the first 20 turns.
    On Expert you routinely get attacked by 2-3 factions simultaneously, and if you survive, then you might as well quit, since it will be virtually impossible to lose the game after that.
    For example, in my latest HRE game (Early, Expert) I got attacked by the French, the Italians and the English. When the dust settled, the French have been reduced to just Bretagne and Toulouse, Italians have been banished to the islands, and the English lost the naval control of the English Channel effectively splitting their kingdom in half.
    That's it, game over. NOTHING in the game will be able to stop the HRE juggernaught at this point.

    Granted, I got lucky, because neither the Poles nor the Hungarians expressed any aggression towards me, otherwise things would have been a bit trickier, but still... the year is 1118, and the game is basically won.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  4. #4
    Man behind the screen Member Empirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    If you have any doubts about winning just about any kind of campaign (haven't tried late Byzzies yet, though...), you haven't been playing this game very long. It should be a foregone conclusion that you will eventually win. But it's getting there that is fun. HRE have an interesting starting position (as in "may you live in interesting times"). After they have survived the initial phase of all-out war on all fronts, they will be very powerful, yes. But just because the game is "basically" won then doesn't mean there's a reason to quit, does it? It's still fun to play. If it wasn't, I'd not be playing M:TW at all anymore.

    Sorry for the double post. Moderator, please remove, if possible. Thanks.
    Last edited by Empirate; 08-29-2006 at 16:13.
    People know what they do,
    And they know why they do what they do,
    But they do not know what what they are doing does
    -Catherine Bell

  5. #5
    Member Member Maximillian von Hapsburg's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    MedMod sounds interesting. I've got a few questions,

    1) Are the units historically accurate?
    2) Is it compatible with XL?
    3) Where can I get it?! :D


    Yours,



    Max :)
    I charged the Swiss pikemen with chivalric knights.


  6. #6
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian von Hapsburg
    1) Are the units historically accurate?
    2) Is it compatible with XL?
    3) Where can I get it?! :D
    hi max,

    1) although I'm studying history myself I really don't have a clue. at least their names sound quite realistic....

    2) no, you'll either have to make a separate MTW install or uninstall XL - if that's not possible, you'll have to re-install MTW:VI again. A much easier way is to use a mod-switcher tool which allows you to activate and deactivate mods as you need. ...although you need a clean MTW:VI install to get it to work properly.

    3) this link
    leads to a thread about the mod with all important information and a discussion. WesW, the mod's creator, is no longer active but the available stuff should suffice.

    If you want to share your HRE MedMod experiences I'd be interested, the MedMod campaign with this faction is among the most outstanding I ever had.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  7. #7
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: HRE

    As for the first question, historical accuracy was never the first concern of the MedMod. WesW claimed he has improved things in the v4 version, but as long as he uses Huscarles as the Danish Royal Guard I would take that with a pinch of salt.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: HRE

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian von Hapsburg
    MedMod sounds interesting. I've got a few questions,

    1) Are the units historically accurate?
    2) Is it compatible with XL?
    3) Where can I get it?! :D


    Yours,



    Max :)
    There are no very historically accurate mods for MTW. MTW doesn't have it's EB or it's RTR. IMHO the most historically accurate mod I've come across to date is probably the BKB Super Mod. It's not totally accurate of course but it's probably as close to it as they come.

    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  9. #9

    Default Re: HRE

    Also it isnt all over once you subdued your enemies.If you get excomm'ed for aggression and experience mass uprisings as a result,things get interesting,expecially if the Hungarians/French decide to take advantage of the uprisings.

  10. #10
    Man behind the screen Member Empirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE

    If you have any doubts about winning just about any kind of campaign (haven't tried late Byzzies yet, though...), you haven't been playing this game very long. It should be a foregone conclusion that you will eventually win. But it's getting there that is fun. HRE have an interesting starting position (as in "may you live in interesting times"). After they have survived the initial phase of all-out war on all fronts, they will be very powerful, yes. But just because the game is "basically" won then doesn't mean there's a reason to quit, does it? It's still fun to play. If it wasn't, I'd not be playing M:TW at all anymore.
    People know what they do,
    And they know why they do what they do,
    But they do not know what what they are doing does
    -Catherine Bell

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