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Thread: Poland

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    early
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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Lional of Cornwall
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Author: Heynow
    Topic: Polish woes...




    Heynow
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    posted 08-29-2002 11:50 PM


    Ok this is my first post, I've been playing the hell out of this game and here are my thoughts.
    My first harddcore game (the first few aborted attempts were just learning) I chose the Poles, expert setting. They looked to have the hardest start and I wanted a challenge. I grabbed the Baltic sea states asap so I could set up my navy. The AI doesn't seem very aggressive, and it is woeful about exploiting the seas. Why does it build so many ports and not build ships?

    Anyway, I decided to lay low and build like crazy. You can play a LONG time doing nothing but grabbing neutrals and building your economy. Finally I thought I had a big enough lead tech-wise to start fighting the real armies. I went to war with the Danes.

    Despite having a two generation lead in technology, I was SPANKED for one reason. POLISH LEADERS ARE HORRIBLE. Not once did I get a 4 star general in all those hours of gameplay. And my navy was worse. Out of over a dozen ships maybe 2 had a single star admiral, the rest were completely incompetent. It didn't really matter though, because about the time I had finally gotten my 4 star general (through battle), my empire disintegrated into civil war. Split into 2 pieces. I saved and quit and haven't decided if I'll play it through.

    It may sound like I'm griping, but I'm not. It actually seems realistic that Poland has so many dunderheaded leaders, I mean they've never been a great power. The only problem I have is with the AI's treatment of the seas. It's way too easy to set up a huge chain of ships all over the world and never have to worry about anyone messing with it.

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    Lord Aeon
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    From:Cleveland, Ohio, USA
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    posted 08-29-2002 11:56 PM


    Uh huh. That's the price you pay when you're unwilling to get into the thick of things. Your generals will never improve fighting 200 non-faction peasants with a 600 man army. As a result, your generals weren't up to snuff when it was ime ot engage in some serious combat wih a rival faction.
    Also, with respect to your navy, it looks as though, because you didn't spend time improving your military through hard-fought battles (whch is quite expensive), you had plenty of money to cultivate your navy. Sure, you dominated the seas, but only because you weren't really spending money on anything else.

    But that's juts my opinion; i could be wrong.

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    dancho
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    posted 08-29-2002 11:57 PM


    Yeah, I got pretty frustrated playing Poland. Kraellin seems to have the right idea (see his posts in the 'Preliminaries' thread). He went north to fight the Rus. Seemed to work for him.
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    malkuth
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    posted 08-30-2002 12:35 AM


    I think you picked the wrong faction to pick on first. The Danes have some great generals throught the game.
    Sounds like you lost though. Tough luck. But you wanted a challenge and you got it. You should be happy that a faction AI actually gave you a good fight.

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    Papewaio
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    From:Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Registered: Sep 2001
    posted 08-30-2002 12:52 AM


    Cool
    You wanted a challenge and you got it I would say save the game. Play a few other campaigns and come back to this one in a month and see if you can win it from this setback.

    Nothing like a challenge to bring out a grin.

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    Boleslaw Wrymouth
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    From:NY, USA
    Registered: Jul 2002
    posted 08-30-2002 05:42 AM



    It may sound like I'm griping, but I'm not. It actually seems realistic that Poland has so many dunderheaded leaders, I mean they've never been a great power.


    Acually about a hundred years after the game ends they WERE a graet power. But that doesn't help you too much.

    I had the same problem with Poland and have two comments and a question. First, go east young man and don't stop until its all red. This is what I did and and its easier then getting involved in the west early on. Its also nice to own some well developed provinces in the east when the Horde shows up. Also, once you have enough troops to quell disorder (you don't need a lot) bribe Pomerania and Prussia. Save your money for this if you have to, it can really help at the start.

    Second, although its tempting to command the troops yourself when faced with an easy battle in order to minimize losses your better off letting the computer handle it. Your generals almost always get a star. (A bug?)

    Finally, what is your tax rate like. Someone else on the board was having the same problem that you and I did and it was suggested that he lower the tax rate. I had most of my provinces on high and very high so I tried it and put most of them back to normal. Its about thirty years later and I'm getting much better generals. This may be a coincidence but try it if you can afford it.

    It may be coded that Poland gets poor generals early then starts to get better ones later on. Its the mid 1200's and I have gotten many 4 and 5 star commanders and royalty recently. If thats the case, hang in there.

    I know nothing about navies. I only use ships for trade and transport and by the time I put my first ship to sea, Denmark and England were history, and my very good friend the HRE took care of the military ships for me. They're gone now so I guess I'm about to find out about crappy admirals.

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    Lional of Cornwall
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  5. #5
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ April 06 2004,18:49)]early
    MTW/ VI, GA-goals:
    The key IMHO to a good Polish campaigns relies on access to the sea and more territories. I usually follow this master plan:
    Only military build-up in Poland on early.
    Money upgrades in Silesia and all new territories.
    Peace with all naighbouring factions.
    First conquer the Baltic states an then advance east.

    1087 AD: In Poland I que WT/ Bow/ H.breed and TP. In Silesia and for all new provs I tend to go with this order in building; WT/ Fort/ TP/ +20%/ (mines)/ (port)/ BF/ +40%/ (mine complex) and now first I either goal a warf or military buildings.
    1091 AD: Que peasants (or similar) for gov´s in Silesia. Don´t be satisfied until you have replaced all gov´s below 5 acc.

    Go for Pomerania early since their guarding force isn´t that strong so you can usually take it with your original army. Prussia will usually req some add troops, espeially archers.
    From here I either go for Lithuania and Livonia and then head south or go directly south and take Volhynia, Moldavia, Kiev before I head north against Lithuania and Livonia. The last is usually better since it will cut off the Hungarians from the Russian steppes and force them to deal with the Byz. And later I will like to hold that bridge in Kiev when the Mongols arrive ;) My initial conquering is usually finished before 1105AD. So now you have something to forge a kingdom out of.

    Around 1100-1104AD you should be able to construct my 2nd armystack which I tend to let my heir command from Poland to guard my western and south front against HRE and Hungarian alliance breakers. By around 1120AD your first ships in the Baltic should be hitting the water and a couple of years later your warf in Kiev will produce that vital Black Sea fleet that will reach the rich Med.coast fater than if you only build ships in the Baltics. Ofcourse you can even get ships in 1102 AD if you go directly for fort, keep, warf. Although with my delay I will actually have a sound economical infrastructure early instead which will finance the fleet which will finance a 5 stack army just two decades later.
    Where you go from here is really up to you. Good luck

  6. #6
    Member Member HopelessCelt's Avatar
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    To add to Ramesses post i usually only go to the line of 3 provs to the right of poland, and leave it there. This amkes it easy to guard from the horde or anyone else who decides to attack from the east, you can one army there to save money. You do need The two p's north of poland for water. Now you should have a water prov in the north section of sea and the south. Then from their pick who you want to fight. I usually go south through hungry and take const. and leave that as a border. Then i take scand. and then progress west. have fun

  7. #7
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    top tip take Kiev and Moldavia. this allows for a defendable bridge and steppe cav in Kiev and Avar nobles in Moldavia I feel so enlightened

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    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I like to go for moldavia right away to get avar nobles and cut off Huns from expansion into the steppes and the rare byz attempt at land invasion of steppes.

    as for the steppes, race the Byz to Khazar and grab Kiev on the way as well as trying to secure Crimea.

    Livonia, Lithuania, and Chernigov are the onyl steppe provinces really worth it to me and the Novgorod can bash their heads on the rebels in worthless little provinces if they want.

    as the polish, be sure to take advantage of special builds of armored spearmen, and mtd-xbows

    the slav warrior units are also ideal for garrison and slav javs good king killers.

    if you want to take on Byz, have a few mtd x-bows run them ragged and then hit them with multiple javs while pinning with armored spears.

    the mighty katank princes all fall easily under a hail of bolts.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    new tactic: ransom Hungary.

    Attack hungary with everything in Poland first turn.

    Pull all units from Silesia to Poland and queue some slav warriors in Poland

    the battle in Hungary will be tough dealing with all the HAs.

    just use a huge encirclement maneuver and you'll be fine.

    have the spear wall hold and run the RK and your own HAs well clear of the enemy HAs until you are at their back and order a charge towards your own lines and the HAs will skirmish away from you cav right into your spear wall.

    close your forces around those HAs like a iron fist and you'll have collected your victory.

    move every unit from Poland into Hungary and assault the fort on the second turn with king's forces.

    after it falls, move in the slav warrior unit just built into hungary and attack Croatia with everything you got except for enough to maintain loyalty in Hungary

    this shoudl net you a 11k ransom and make the rest smooth sailng.

    your first heir should have matured in hungary so send him to finish off the Hungarian King in Croatia and later take Moldavia and Wallachia while your king goes for Venice on a delayed version of the Hungarian or German Venice grab.

    then ceasefire and ally with the Italians using your princess.

    note: Venice grab only works when their Doge is there and you have superior forces.

    by this time, you have gotten aroudn the biggest problem for Poles: the cash and also gianed two iron provinces, a bunch of nice farmladn etc.

    you can beat the Byz to the Balkans and both the Byz and Russians to the steppes.

    I personally like to chime in when the Turks war on the Byz and grab Bulgaria which gives semi-unique brigand unit, Greece for trade, and Const. for wealth and development.

    never underestimate javs and bolts for hitting Byz armor.

    be comforted if defeated in battle by the Byz that your units are a lot more replaceable and cheaper and that you'll win in the long run.

    let the Turks weaken them.

    units to build: slav warriors are really cheap and work as nice garrison troops with decent charge. they are actually better than vanilla spears and I use them to pin sometimes. they are also fast so they can catch any infantry they are able to rout

    UM for flanking armor on a budget.

    slav javs: hits armor real well form the behidn with javs and then charge in for the kill. also fast and can catch routers.

    medium cav: cheapo light cav for the early years where any cav is a huge advantage.

    mtd x-bows: bread and butter skirmisher unit for you.

    you are the only eastern faction without access to generic HA so this is your bet. good thing it has decent melee and can shoot armor piercing bolts.

    plays havoc with katanks and can lure them into javelin traps easily.

    good for annihilation of armor. just dont' try and duel archers using these as the slow fire rate will have them even more dead than vanilla archers. charge them or run away.

  10. #10
    Member Member Zortanius's Avatar
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    Hi everyone,

    I Think the tips for playing the Poles were very insightful - of course my first campaign with the Polish was done bereft of this knowledge (sigh...). However certain trends do happen to occur - eventually King Kasimierz turns up, lives till 70, gets upto rank 6 or so and presides over a large and established realm. Thereafter within 10 or 15 years, civil war erupts. I have played the poles 3 times - each time expanding in different directions and each time eventually civil war erupted. Unlike other factional fratricides though - this one is most self defeating - the 2 rival factions are roughly equal - if one is bigger (more provinces and or more men) the other faction will have better troops. Basically watch out when your higher nobility starts seeming to spring from the same families - Jagellionczyk, Turek, among others and when the names get so large that the font gets smaller in the banner at the top of the profile pages.

    Additionally, IMHO, the fate of the hungarians is inextricably tied to the your diplomacy towards them - if you ally with them and act nice to them (which I did out of fear at the start), they will expand nicely as well. If you take a chance and kill them off early - so be it. Other factions don't seem to grind down the hungarians as much.

    The above 2 phenomena happen in normal, hard and expert. I have never played the poles in easy. The first time I played the Poles, I wanted a challenge and played as normal - I allied with the hungarians, attacked the germans and did little else (being absolutely new to the game back then). I got as far as swabia but then in a rash attack got my king stuck in a forest with some german UM and spearmen - needless to say he died, everyone else fled, I had no remaining heirs (another heir died in another battle), and my realm degenerated into petty factions et al.

    Second time round was better - I played normal, got all of the steppes and eastern europe, most of central europe, most of asia minor and got as far as antioch before civil war erupted.

    Third time (hard) all the way upto naples and cordoba altho not beyond kiev - civil war.

    Finally played expert - balkans, denmark, western steppe and upto lorraine and tuscany before.. you guessed it civil war. This one was quite challenging.

    And yes I agree when the civil war happens you feel very sapped and just don't wanna hang aroun trying to beat or get all your previous armies back. Plus it hurts having to slaughter all those CMAA, Knights and arbalesters you yourself trained. Sorry, I take my game very personally =).

    Also despite having played the game with almost every faction - some of my most enjoyable battles were with the Poles - beating the Mongols with spearmen, archers and merc cavalry was classic. That battle lasted a very long time.

    The Polish are hard to play but that much more exhilarating - even on Glorius achievements.

    Anyway that was quite long,

    Cheers
    To persevere
    beyond the crimson horizon
    pervading the darkness
    enduring forever

  11. #11
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    I don't play Catholic factions much, but will have to try Katank's ransom blitz. I tried a different strategy but now the Hungarians are a dangerous threat, full of Szekelys. Very scary. Looks like eliminating the Hungarians early is the way to go.

    I have found, though, that one one unit of horse archers the Poles get in early scares the dickens out of HRE units. They abandoned Bohemia and Austria without a fight when I invaded with a lot of woodmen and the HA. Then I took Barvaria from them temporarily -- just to start an HRE civil war. I then abandoned Barvaria, let it go rebel and grabbed Venice. Didn't get one excomm warning the whole time.

    Went north, built up Pomerinia and crossed the Baltic. Again, the big bunch of woodsmen and the single HA scared off the Vikings in Sweden. I'm only a few moves into the game and the empire stretches from the Arctic to the Adriatic. The only "battle" fought so far was storming the keep in Venice.

    The only thing keeping the Hungarians from wiping me out is the threat of the Byzantines. Hopefully, those two will get into a war. Hopefully I can tech up and get some armored spearmen going.

    Right now, my plan is to seize Denmark, get my warning, storm the keep before I can get excommunicated and then either reduce the HRE or stab the Hungarians in the back.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  12. #12
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Also, woodsmen should do about as well as urban militia for an anti-armor flanking unit. They're cheaper and can come straight from the fort.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    woodsmen are awesome add some armor and they rock for the price.

    simply use them in woods and they should be fine.

    only protected archers can kill them cost effectively and also they are vulnerable to cav but in the woods, all that is solved.

    dashing in bad weather from tree clump to tree clump until up close and then unleashing swarms of woodsmen is a good tactic.

    after two or 3 waves of pure woodsmen, all the best enemy units should be heavily attrited and you can finish them off using your own elite units.

    get some armor for the woodsmen and build em from Lithuania for good measure.

  14. #14

    Post Re: Poland

    In my experience as playing the Poles, I've found that I have to keep careful watch on my heir stats (i.e. kill off any heirs that have low command/ bad vices so i don't get a drunken idiot as my next king). I usually keep my borders to Poland/ Silesia in the west, Moldavia/ Kiev inthe south, Lithuania / Livonia in the East, and Sweden/Pomerania/ Prussia up north. this gives me good trade income and upgradable troop production, decent borders, lets me satisfy my GA goals, and gives me a few ship/ agent provinces.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Poland

    O_o my first topical post!!!

    Well I needed a challenge after playing as the Spanish Steam roller and rich as Hell Egyptians. So I figured the Polish would be a good bet. They have large borders, poor lands and no Tanktakeonallcomerunits. I also decided to limit my ship building to only guard my home waters and limit the trading upgrades to one for each age reached (in each province). And have only bought one merc unit so far ---------> English Longbowmen

    First thing I did was take up all the rebel provinces I could north and east of my homelands. This had the "advantage" of poor lands and establishing pre-empitive borders with the Mongols. Soon enough I had all the steppe provinces but Volga-Bulgaria,, Khazar, Finland and Novgorod. Oh yeah and the HRE crusaded for Livonia !!! Soon enough I decided to take Moldavia from the Hungarians to even up my borders to the south. What problems did i have there? SZEKELY's !!!

    However eventually I just cornered them all and advanced behind my armored spearman wall and the army soon crumbled and the province was mine with flanking provided by Horsemen units (A massive bonus in early). They tried to retake it and even attacked Poland too but I crushed both the Invasions and their Leader was Duke Nukem'd by my own King !!! Unfortunately my armies were not in postion to take over there now very weak position and guess who jumped at the Chance. . The Byzantines. . . I considered going for all out war with them but I needed to prepare for the horde appearing.

    The challenge I set for the Horde was to not use Halbs and as few Armour piercing shooters as possible (one per province) and no chivalric units. So My basic starting army consisted of(Stationed in Muscovy, Ryazan, Chernigov, Kiev):-

    2 Armored Spearmen
    2 Militia Seargeants
    1 Feudal men at arms
    1 Feudal Knights
    1 Royal unit
    5 Archers
    1 Pavise Crossbowmen
    2 Catapults
    1 Slav Warriors

    I used the Armored Spearmen cos the mogols don't have any armor piercing wepons and they held every position against the horde they were given. (Flanks protected by Militia Seargeants or men at arms of course ;) . If there was a forest then the seargeants and slav warriors set up shop there and I use it to guard the whole of my Armies flank.

    The key is to really not put your archers on fire at will. DON'T DO IT. Especially in bridge battles. You need to concentrate all your fire on one unit at a time. This way there Morale gets destroyed and the units battle effectiveness is reduced quickly. I normally stop shooting something when it gets to half strenght and find a larger target (the armored Spearmen and flanking seargeants and/or Knights should be able to take the half strenght units out. Also made sure that my crossbowmen and catapults only fired at the Heavy cavalry so as to maximize their fear and armor piercing properties.

    I also remember getting one lucky shot and crushing a mongol prince/general with a huge rock. SPLAT!!! There was much rejoicing. At the moment all the mongol Invasions have been crushed except I gave up Peryeslav (was too poor) and they are now stuck there and volga bulgaria with the Byzantine Machine behing=d them and me in front. I plan on taking them out in one attack and the I am sure the Byzantines are getting too big for their boots . . .

    It's a greta game atm. Money is tight but I still have 7 standing effective Armies, without getting the rich provinces such as Constantinople or Venice . Try it this way, it's hard but a great challenge . I also limited my agents to oly a few of each type and the now 2 6 start spies I have literraly rock the world !!!

    Oh yeah also I (well Marquis de Said) changed a few royal units to make the game more interseting. The Danes got Huscarles in early (they actually did something ) and Poles got Polish Retainers in early. While an advantage at first (big unit size ;) )you soon use them efficiently as the get whittled down adn you can't repair them . I have one general now who is from the old days, is totally dis-loyal, 1 man (I refuse to repair the old ones from early ) who is like a heat seeking missile. He goes for the enemy general every time in the flank. He more often than not succeeds as well and chases them down as they flee before his wrath !!!

    Lets see the how the game is panning out soon. . .

  16. #16

    Default Re: Poland

    Unlike many other players, I tend to attack the HRE before I move East. There are very fertile lands in the Holy Roman Empire which serve you very well later on in the game when you need to bolster your empire with a huge army. Ever since the first time I played as the Poles, I have had a patent distrust for the HRE. It tends to break alliance and attack at the worst possible moments. The easiest way to deal with this is to attack early in the game.

    Also, the early HRE armies are surprisingly weak if you take the time to bolster your own army with regular troops. HRE armies consist of a great number of peasant units early on in the game, which makes them very easy to break. If you conquer a few rebel territories before you move on against Germany, you can use woodsmen against the Imperial troops, which is a great advantage. Polish Retainers are also invaluable when charging the less experienced peasants and foot soldiers that they can array against you.

    The fighting isn't easy, and you may be forced to flee in the face of superior numbers on a few occasions, but the fruits of your efforts are some of the richest lands in all of Europe. At this point, you are poised to make moves against many of the European powers including Hungary or Italy to the south, France to the west, or Denmark to the north. Russia can be used as an effective breakwater against the mongol invasion when it arrives and the Baltic states can be used to create a great navy for trade and further invasion.

    Personally, I prefer to move into the Crimea as my next step and then prepare a navy for an amphibious landing against the Holy Land. The idea of a Polish crusader state appeals to me for some reason. In a situation where you are playing for Glorious Achievements, this decision is particularly useful because you are then depriving the other European powers of many important glory points if you remain allied with them and remain on the Pope's good side. It is extremely important to remain on the Pope's good side as the Poles. The Papacy can be a very powerful ally which will protect you from some of the more aggressive ambitions of the other European powers.

    Cliff's Notes: Try moving against Germany after you conquer the rebel territories to the east and north. After this, you have a multitude of different choices, but one of the cooler ones is to make a campaign against the Holy Land or to annex Hungary or both. Use Russia as a breakwater against the Mongol tide later in the game. Also, stay in the good graces of the Pope. Keep his Holiness as a pal, and he will pay you back time after time when he sides with you over other aggressive powers. Don't underestimate the power of both Polish Retainers and Woodsmen against less experienced or lighter troops. These units, along with Crossbowmen should be the shock troops of your army early on in the game. Do this, and the world is your oyster.

  17. #17
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Post Poland

    Comrades, my first post.

    Playing with the Poland faktion is very exciting and challenge. Agreed, they have no leaders to start, and regret, armies leave the battle field before 1/4 time have ellapsed. In some cases, routing can only be avoided by withdrawal from the field, especially when facing superior armies and troops from HRE and Danes. So much for Polish courage, but complete armies have been lost in single battles . . . !
    I used halbadiers4 and arbalesters4 steppe cavalry2 and boyars1 very succesfully as Russian faktion, but somehow, the same strategy does not work so well for the Polish faktion. The strategy is well described in the posts for Russian Guides. Thank you cde Katank and others ...
    Any suggestion on what strategy can be emplyed for Polish armies?

    cde Charlè

  18. #18

    Default Re: Poland

    The key to Poland (in VI) is in the stepps. You have to make use of the units you can make there. You can get Avar nobles from Molavia. They are one of the best (if not the best) Heavy calvary in early. You need to also use the two stepp calvary types. Normal Stepp calvary is damn fast and great for flanking. Nice in early when you have to use spears. Then you get the Heavy Stepp calvary. They are one of the best missle cav in the game.
    If you can manage to take Pomerania, Prussa, Volhynia, Lithuania, Kiev, and Molavia quickly and get trade going you should be in great position to build up and crush everyone later on.
    What, you never seen a Polock in Viking Armor on a Camel?

  19. #19

    Default A look at why playing as Poland is not that bad.

    It seems as Poland has gotten a bad rep by some in MTW. This is unfounded. Poland is probable one of the most fun factions to play. They have a great starting positions, a lot of different units they can easily get, plus they can get very good generals towards the end of the game. Lets look closer.

    Poland's starting position

    Some would say that Poland is in a terrible position to start, this is not so. To the west of Poland you have the HRE and the Hungarians. Both are catholic factions and can be allied with easily at the start of the game. They will all most always leave you alone until much later in the game. The HRE gets into wars with every one else and love that fact that you protect its eastern boarder. The Hungarians tend to get in to a war with the Byz.
    Now to your east you have the Stepps. All rebel territory just waiting to be taken. You can more then double your size in ten turns. Gaining 5 sea provinces on your way. Never getting into a war the whole time. This means that you can have a large empire, with the begining of a great trade network before you ever have to get into a major conflict.

    The Polish units roster

    Poland get only one unique unit, the Polish Retainers. They are arguable the best Medium cav in the game. You do have to wait until the late period to make them, but they still have a advantage over kights. There stamina. Retainers can run for longer amounts of time on the battle field. This means they can chase router, and flank charge more often then knights. They are also cheaper to produce and maintain.
    Poland also has access to a number of other semi unique units (units available to other factions as well). Lets look at these.

    Slav warriors - these are cheap peasant like unit, but they are far better then peasants. They are great for garrison duties, and can take out most early spear units because of there numbers. Very early they will be a the back bone of your armies.

    Slav javelin men - javelins are great for taking out any thing with armor, and those pesky jedi generals.

    Armoured spearmen - These guys are great. They are basically Chivalric sergeants -1 defence. They can stand up to almost any early unit very well. They give you a huge advantage in the spear category. Even when Chivalric sergeants become available these guys will remain very useful. Just a great unit.

    Mounted Crossbows - These are the bane of the Byzantine Kataphraktoi. Like all crossbows they are armor piercing so they can easily destroy Kataphraktoi which are not fast enough to catch them. You can also put one unit right behind your arches and just let them fire at will. Because they are on horse back they will not get a sight penalty.

    Woodsman - these guys are the best at flanking charge or ambushes. Why, they have an 8 charge. That is as high as most cav. They are also armor piercing. So pin with your Armoured spears, then flank with your woodsmen and watch the insta-rout.

    Next Poland has easy access to a number of units that can only be produced in certain provinces. While any faction can produce these, no one can get them as easily as the Poles.

    Avar Nobles - produced in Moldavia these are basically Kataphraktoi with normal speed and a slightly weaker charge, and they are in early. This is a great heavy cav for any age. In early they can dominate the field if used correctly.

    Steppe Cavalry - Produced in a number of the provinces to Poland's east. Stepp Cavalry is fast, fast, fast. They are the best at taking out Horse Arches, and are great flankers. They are not weak nether, so they can take a beating. Again available in early.

    Steppe Heavy Cavalry - This unit is a medium cav that also thinks that they are Horse arches. They are great at both. They can wear units down with there bows, then engage them in melee quite well. They high armor also protects them from most arches. A great multi-purpose unit.

    Lithuanian Cavalry - They come from Lithuanian and are very close to Retainer. They take a long time to reach (tech wise) so are not that useful.

    Bulgarian Brigands - Arches with some melee skill. They are also fast of infantry. They are great to use at your flanks were they can wear down enemy units then engage them until you can send help.

    Viking Huscarles, Landsmen - Poland is very close to Sweden and Norway. If you can get them early you can produce both Viking Landsmen (Good) and then Huscarlers (Better). These guys can kick the hell out of most other things in early, and in late, and still some things in high. They can only be produced in early so make as many as you can. Beware the Polish Vikings.

    So lets review, Poland, with a little work can field any army in early that is as good (if not better) then most armies in late. A Polish army of Armored spear with Vikings on the flanks, backed up with Steppe Heavies and Avar nobles is a scary thing. No other faction, save Novgorod, is in a position to do this. So does anyone still think Poland is weak?

    I almost forgot. Poland my not start with a good number of stars in there royal line, but this can be a good thing. Each generation of royals will be slightly better then the last. You will never run into a situation were your nine star king starts to produce zero star heirs. Polish generals also seem to pick up the mighty warrior, and natural leader virtues very often. So your general may only have 3-4 stars, but give +2 moral, and can beat up the other general in a fight. This with the fact that your kings tend to produce a good number of heirs means you will find your self with some good general.
    Last edited by m52nickerson; 04-18-2010 at 22:07.
    What, you never seen a Polock in Viking Armor on a Camel?

  20. #20
    Defeater of the Wicker People Member The Darkhorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: A look at why playing as Poland is not that bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by m52nickerson
    ...

    Avar Nobles - produced in Moldavia these are basically Kataphraktoi with normal speed and a slightly weaker charge, and they are in early. This is a great heavy cav for any age. In early they can dominate the field if used correctly.

    Steppe Cavalry - Produced in a number of the provinces to Poland's east. Steep Cavalry is fast, fast, fast. They are the best at taking out Horse Arches, and are great flankers. They are not weak nether, so they can take a beating. Again available in early.

    ...
    You are so right. I love playing Poland . These two you mentioned are the best Heavy and Medium in Early AND High. Steppies butcher, cook, and eat Horse Archers and then come back and still charge into the rear of a stuck in Mongol Heavy Cavalry (routing them of course)...and still have the fun of running down routing infantry. I sometimes have trouble tiring them out!

    I recommend spamming Avar noble if you can afford it and basically use them as your Heavy Cavarly for the rest of the game. Tech it up as much as possible with Silver armor and Master Horse Breeder. You've only got till 1205, so you have to capture it fast. Silver Avars will kick butt. Try charging 8 Avars right at the enemy....while flanking and charging their flanks and rear with 8 Steppies. Watch the great skidaddle and laugh menacingly!
    We are men of action...lies do not become us.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Poland

    I basically do the same as most of you said, i ally with my neighboors and build up slowly expanding, but i try to keep novogrod around as they can provide a bunker for when the horde shows up, so that later i can step in and the take their weakened provinces.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Poland

    yeah, i do exactly the same, i am playing GA at hard, year is 1353 and i still haven't fought with anyone apart from rebels:)
    i have developed a well earned trade system, took Constantinople and Portugal cause of high income, i am currently behind at score but advancing well, Almohads look burned off. Still awaiting for climax.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Poland

    forgot to ask, what versions and level difficulty do u play?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Poland

    I have played a lot on normal. My current campaign is hard GA, doing Ok but not as well as I would like.
    What, you never seen a Polock in Viking Armor on a Camel?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by m52nickerson
    I have played a lot on normal. My current campaign is hard GA, doing Ok but not as well as I would like.
    how do u start? ok i know the two starting provinces are nothing really, but with 6000 florins u should be able to manage well with the rebels near u. I started with attacking the two rebel provinces that drive u to the sea, i don't remember the names, one is to the north (Norht sea) and one drives to the south (Black sea). that will help u to start develop sea trade and accelerate ur income. and also avoid conflict with main powers like HRE and Byzantines. It will be very good also if u can take Sweden before Danish do, cause of its high income.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Poland

    sorry meant 4000 florins:)

  27. #27

    Default Re: Poland

    A good start is to take Moldavia ASAP, probably (turn 2 or 3), and immediately start building for Avar nobles, which will take about 25 years. After another 4 or 5 years move into Kiev. Rebels in Moldavia will retreat but in Kiev they will fight. Make sure you have enough and the right kind of troops to beat horse archers and steppe cavalry, which can sometimes be tricky, take your king and one of his heirs. In Kiev build for trade and shipbuilding initially, and steppe heavy cavalry later. Kiev is potentially your richest province once you get its trade working.
    After Kiev head up and take Pomerania and again build for trade and shipping. You should be able to take all three before 1100. It is a good idea to consolidate for a while before heading for Lithuania (Volhynia should prove no problem, but leave Prussia as it is rebellious and not worth much) with its three trade goods. In the short term you will be down to virtually no money but by about 1150 you should start to see your income pick up considerably as your trade routes grow.
    All the time you are doing this you want to keep on good relations with HRE, Hungary, and Byzantium, making alliances. Don't do anything to lose them as allies (sometimes attacking Novgorod can lose you Byzantium, which is bad news) Though Poland starts weak it is not too difficult to build it into a powerful faction by around 1150-1200, as mentioned in earlier mails, its army is excellent. In early the cavalry combination of Avar nobles (easily the best buildable cavalry in the early period IMHO. ) mounted sergeants and steppe cavalry, plus Armoured spearmen and lithuanian woodsmen, make it, for me, the most enjoyable faction in the early period.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Poland

    One thing that can help, try to fight the rebels in each provence instead of making them retreat. That way you will not have to face huge rebel armies later. For example Moldavia normally has only one unit of spears guarding it. Send in a unit of Slav warriors to take the provence. It will be a close fight but you should win and kill most of the spear unit.

    Also try to bribe the forces in the forts in Kiev and Lithuania. Once they accept your bribe move the rest of your forces into the provence, that way the rebels will not be able to retreat into the fort, there is a less of a chance of the building being destroyed.
    What, you never seen a Polock in Viking Armor on a Camel?

  29. #29
    Member Member HopelessCelt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    I have played Polish several different times from the first time I got the game up to now. I find them different to most of the other factions, being unable to launch Crusades, having large boarders and always having to face the Horde makes them a challenge in most cases. I generally grab several lands around me, and then see how the situation is around me to see where to go next. In the East, the best two lands are Kiev and Lithuania; these give you only two provinces in the east. One army can cover both of them, usually placed in Kiev due to it’s easiness to defend.

    My aims in the early years (first ten) is to take control of Prussia, Pomerania and Volhynia. These, along with Poland and Silesia, become the back bone of your army production. I generally use Prussia and Pomerania as ship produces to take control of the North Sea Trade and troop movement for later. Now it’s time to check the rest of the world. Depending on who is weak (HRE or Hungary), you will advance West or South. I generally leave the Danes alone until I can attack Denmark via land just so I can retreat with ease.

    If Hungary is weak, make a push towards Constantinople, thus going to war with the Byzantines. Hopefully, you will crush the Hungarians completely and take them out of the game, but the Byzantines will be left alive so peace is necessary (not for land reasons, but the Byzantines are buggers for building ships and interrupting trade.) This push south would have allowed you to start building ships in the Balkans and increase your trade more. Placing a nice defensive army in Constantinople, you know have two boarders guarded with two armies, keeping most of your armies in an offensive role.

    The push west depends on who has taken power there, and it is usually a long slog before you reach your target provinces of either Toulouse/Aquitaine or Navarre/Aragon, depending if you wish to go to war with the extra two provinces. Now take Scandinavia and Britain, and you should now have removed any northern boarders. With choke holds in the east, south and west, your two main problems lie in the Horde appearing and the Italians/Papacy (depending again on how far you pushed). I generally like to push up to the Papacy as they are generally quiet and only require a small boarding army. Now spend your time readying to defeat the Horde (if it hasn’t already appeared.)

    Once the Horde has been subdued, it’s down to you whether your attention turns to Spain, the Steppes or Asia. Once again, I like to take Spain and hold Morocco. Now your three Boarders are covered in by four provinces, economic or what? Now the Steppes, stopping at Khazar or Georgia. Prepare yourself for the assault on Asia and dig in. Push yourself along North Africa and into Egypt. Moving your two eastern armies down, you will generally catch the rest of Asia stuck between three armies and each other if one has not taken dominance.

    Finally, it’s the island assault to finish of the Byzantines and Sicily. Finally, crush the Pope and the world belongs to the Poles.

    Enjoy.

  30. #30
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    As natural born Pole (:P) i think i should reply here.
    First of all Poland on early had some great generals. King Boleslav Krzywousty won war with HRE.
    During high era there were feudal division into Poland (same like in rest of europe) but there were some well generals too. But similar situation was on every country in the Europe.
    But on late in Poland there were so many great generals that mentioning their would take really long time. For example king Wladislav Łokietek - the one who united country and held Teutonic Order or king Wladislav Jagiello - winner from Grunwald Battle. They should have not less than 4 to 6 stars :)
    In campaign best option is capture rebel countries on east. If there are mongols, you should start war with them - at the beginning they got strong army but weak economy. If you crush their army, there will be no next.
    When you conquer east Europe, you should upgrade economy - especially Novogrod, Kiev, Khazar and Latvia. And if you manage to do it - you can attack whatever you want :)
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

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