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Thread: Poland

  1. #31
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Poland

    The Polish leaders are just not good enough to keep the men on the field. The Russian leaders are able to keep the men in battle even when outnumbered. Perhaps my strategy need to improve.

    This is what I do in battle:
    Form a medium length line with Halbs and Arbls, 5 units of each, supported by Polish retainers to flank and chase the routed troops.
    Put the Arbls on HOLD POSITION, to keep them in place so that they fire at least 3 shots at the advancing enemy
    Move forward with Halbs to make contact with charging enemy.
    (I never allow enemy to attack the flank of my line, I meet them square on), but the Polish Halbs lose their courrage very quick and run. Soon I have chaos of getting everybody over the border with many losses, because the halbs are slow, and Arbls dont fight to well in the gaps left by the 'not so brave comrades'

    I have adapted a cowardly strategy to abandon the field as soon as I notice the 2nd or 3rd Halbs units are losing their courrage. They loose courrage when only 6 men out of 60 have perished, where Russian Halbs have fought to the last man!!!

    Now I have to command my Retainer and Arbls to run, this way I save 1/2 my army (exept the Halbs) but not much pride . . .
    Last edited by Charlè; 01-03-2006 at 13:40.

  2. #32
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    I've found Froggy's guide very informative in regards to halberdiers. Their morale is so low that they require a lot of management. I don't use them in battle, but as castle defenders they're hard to beat.


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  3. #33
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlè
    The Polish leaders are just not good enough to keep the men on the field. The Russian leaders are able to keep the men in battle even when outnumbered. Perhaps my strategy need to improve.

    This is what I do in battle:
    Form a medium length line with Halbs and Arbls, 5 units of each, supported by Polish retainers to flank and chase the routed troops.
    Put the Arbls on HOLD POSITION, to keep them in place so that they fire at least 3 shots at the advancing enemy
    Move forward with Halbs to make contact with charging enemy.
    (I never allow enemy to attack the flank of my line, I meet them square on), but the Polish Halbs lose their courrage very quick and run. Soon I have chaos of getting everybody over the border with many losses, because the halbs are slow, and Arbls dont fight to well in the gaps left by the 'not so brave comrades'

    I have adapted a cowardly strategy to abandon the field as soon as I notice the 2nd or 3rd Halbs units are losing their courrage. They loose courrage when only 6 men out of 60 have perished, where Russian Halbs have fought to the last man!!!

    Now I have to command my Retainer and Arbls to run, this way I save 1/2 my army (exept the Halbs) but not much pride . . .
    Well you might want to change your melee troops from Halbs to something else, spearmen are a nice cheap substitute and can usually handle a pretty good load. LEadership might be the issue to, as I recall when I played Poland last I didnt have remarkable generals.

    Also those Polish Retainers, if I recall, have excellent charge stats, might want to flank when your Halbs are engaged and charge in, might give your army the boost it needs.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

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  4. #34
    Wojewoda Pruski Member Loucipher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Looks like The Polish are still a faction hard to master by some MTW players.
    I have yet to play this factions with VI installed, but the very, very first campaign I played (and managed to finish actually) was with this faction. Well, being a Pole (salute to my compatriots m52nickerson and KrooK - Witajcie!), what other faction could I choose for the start?
    My campaign got pretty much as described by many people here. I started by rushing towards the first Rebel provinces I could get - Pomerania (to prevent HRE taking it), then Prussia and then Moldavia (which was just another province close to my borders at the moment, since Avar Nobles, the main reason for its taking, were unavailable without the VI add-on). Then, I went east, eventually stumbling into The Novgorod. Taking out Rebel provinces one by one was really just a target practice for my generals, therefore I have managed to outlive the initial crappiness of my commanders, simply by schooling the chosen ones, and letting others die. From early on I have reasoned (knowing the medieval history of my country reasonably well) that cavalry has been always a hallmark of Polish armies (we owe some of our most brilliant victories to our mounted troops, and our last genuine, horse-equipped cavalry units fought as late as the September Campaign of World War II in 1939). So I have intuitively begun the buildup towards cavalry units, soon getting Polish Retainers in Poland - for early, these were my Riders of Doom (I once got a splendid skirmish between my 40 riders and a Rebel unit of 60 Archers, which ended with 12 Archers slain, the remainder captured, all that with... 0 losses - these wretches broke almost instantly) :) Rushing all the way east, I have enlisted Steppe Cavalry into my services, which let me literally ride the eastern armies down. My typical army rooster of that time included: 2-3 Steppe Cavalry, 3-4 Polish Retainers or Mounted Sergeants (later Feudal Knights where available), 2-3 Archers, 3-4 Spearmen (later Feudal Sergeants), 2-4 Woodsmen, Urban Militia or Militia Sergeants (later included 2 FMAA instead of Woodsmen). Such armies could prove dangerous to almost any threat, when used with just a little care.
    With the advent of the High Period my armies were a little bit outdated, but I was able to field Chivalric Knights, Chivalric Sergeants and Crossbows (both on foot and mounted) almost instantly. My country was at that time involved with a huge exchange of blows with Byzantium, which lasted on two fronts (one around the weakened Hungary and the other in Georgia-Khazar choke point), so most of my armies were close to where the Mongols emerge.
    Nonetheless, it was a bit of a surpise. My jaw made a heavy when I saw a Stack comprising of 16 MHA units, led (as is historically true) by Ogadai Khan himself.
    But having 4 stacks of a decent composition (one army made entirely from High Era units, led by a freshly-emerged 5-star heir with 20 High RKs) meant that the Mongols were in for a massive amount of beating.
    And what a beating they got!
    In two defensive battles the Mongols lost 2/3 of their forces (especially MHA would sell themselves dearly ), and the remaining, including Ogadai, were captured and executed. The Mongol Horde never conquered a single province on my map, thus having no chance of reappearing. Having taken care of any wounds inflicted by this sudden onslaught, my armies proceeded to finish off Byzantium, flushing out the Hungarians in the process (yes, it is true than we and the Magyars are two nephews, as the old line goes, but we need to be united under one banner before it actually works :) ).
    That left me with almost half of the Europe under my reign, the Holy Land within a camel spit, and the Germans valiantly shielding my back (as incredible as it may seem, the alliance settled in 1090 miraculously survived until 1252 - gute Deutschen :D ). Well, the time has come to pay them for their faithful services and dismiss them into oblivion.
    Having shifted the majority of the armies (only some of the troops were performing mop-ups in the Asia Minor, before striking into the deserts) to the European Theatre of Operations, I have launched an all-out assault into the very heartland of HRE. Unsurprisingly, I have learned the most obvious lesson: don't mess with fellow Catholics while you are the strongest in the lot, or you'll get expelled. The Pope stepped in, which caused excommunication and some minor loyalty problems, but did not save Germans from extinction. The reappearance of the previously vanquished French didn't help them, either, as they too began chewing at their borders in a vain hope of regaining former glory (in essence, they screwed up, and lasted in a single province for some 10 years, until they drowned under the wave of red which was slowly devouring the Europe. The two factions, that were my allies at that time - the Danes and the English, escaped the destruction and were left for later.
    In the meantime, I have shifted my attention to the south, where the Almohads laid lazy and drunk over the remnants of both Iberian kingdoms - they were lucky (or just aggressive enough) to crush both Spanish and Aragonese. Their armies were the most problematic, as I recall, and it also took massive pains to bring back the population into Catholic Church, as most of them have gone Islamic under Almohad rule :)
    The clock has hit the Late Period before last defenders of the Black Crescent finally withered and died. Only weakened Egyptian Sultanate stood against my rolling forces by then. As a mop up, I have had crushed the Danes in the meantime, so both the Baltic and the Black sea were my internal ponds for breeding a large navy, which I had to muster to allow final subjugation of the Mediterranean isles as well as the biggest archipelago in Europe - The British Isles.
    My armies were already waiting at the French shores for the opportunity to attack, but I had to take out British navy first, for if I had fought my way up from Flanders I would surely get excommed - something I could not allow to happen just then.
    I had managed to sweep the seas clean of English fleet in one turn, which allowed me to launch a naval attack next year against every single province on the Isles - including Ireland. It was already my second turn of hostilities against a significantly weaker Catholic faction, so it was to no surprise that the pesky Pope sent me a reprimand. I was already enraged enough at him for his constant nagging about my politics (and the continuation of it, along the line of Clausewitz), but his plans were thwarted by a mishap that had befallen the English royal milk-sob - he chose to retreat from the province and was captured when the province he retreated to was overrun, then... well... his coffers proved to be empty :) The rebels are of no importance to that fat bloke in Rome, so I could finish them off quickly.
    Just then, it happened. Some of my most trusted generals turned against me.
    Fortunately, the choice was simple. The rebels were so overwhelming that I sided with them, and ended up fighting the former members of my own royalty :)
    After this slight political incident I have invaded the Papal lands, to teach that perfidious and sanctimonious excuse of a priest not to mess with the power of the White Eagle. Not surprisingly, he was swept away - so fast that he didn't even manage to sign the excommunication! He reappeared some 30 years later, when I was busy disposing of the last points of resistance on the Mediterranean, but was instantly crushed again - this time for good.
    In the meantime, the Byzantines reappeared, conquering (among other provinces) Rhodes, Crete, Malta and Naples. Instantly driven out of the mainland, they lived on for some 10 years on the islands, until in 1412 the last defenders of La Valletta capitulated before my armies.
    All in all, it was the first and so far the most rewarding MTW campaign I have finished. No other faction brought such amount of fun to me.
    Loucipher
    Chancellor of the Void
    The Ninth Ring of Hell

    "Vexilla regis prodeunt inferni
    verso di noi; però dinanzi mira",
    disse 'l maestro mio "se tu 'l discerni".

    Dante Alighieri, La divina commedia, Canto XXXIV, 1-3

  5. #35

    Default Re: Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Loucipher
    Looks like The Polish are still a faction hard to master by some MTW players.
    Taking out Rebel provinces one by one was really just a target practice for my generals, therefore I have managed to outlive the initial crappiness of my commanders, simply by schooling the chosen ones, and letting others die.
    Many players seem to miss this opportunity at the start of the game. Then you can normally bribe one good rebel general to your side. My current game I bribed the general in Lithuania right off the bat, he only had two stars, but had the great leader, and famously brave virtues.
    What, you never seen a Polock in Viking Armor on a Camel?

  6. #36
    Wojewoda Pruski Member Loucipher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    I always take this into consideration, especially when this general sits in the garrison and there is no field army in the same province (a successful bribe means you get both the general and the province for the same money without risking any mess with the buildings - very nice!), but at the very start of the game bribery is an option which is not always affordable...
    Anyway, the one you're talking about is probably worth the money - he has a great potential to evolve into a 9-star butcher :)
    I'll try him out in my recently started Polish campaign - Lithuania is still independent, and my treasury can afford the reasonable bribe... my emissary will take care of it on his way back from Novgorod.
    Loucipher
    Chancellor of the Void
    The Ninth Ring of Hell

    "Vexilla regis prodeunt inferni
    verso di noi; però dinanzi mira",
    disse 'l maestro mio "se tu 'l discerni".

    Dante Alighieri, La divina commedia, Canto XXXIV, 1-3

  7. #37

    Default Re: Poland

    The general may not be as the same in your game, it seems random what V&Vs they get.

    I always try to bribe lithuania of Kiev to keep the buildings intact. Most of the time I can afford to bribe one, but only a few times both.
    What, you never seen a Polock in Viking Armor on a Camel?

  8. #38
    Wojewoda Pruski Member Loucipher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    True said. The general in Lithuania, although 3-star, turned out to have no V&Vs whatsoever. Well enough - he got raided and scared away into the fort by my 5-star youngest offspring, Prince Leszek. Time to wither and die, weakling
    I tried to attack Kiev, but the Byzantines, damn Eastern dogs, moved in with a huge stack of crappy peasants and stole my province for themselves Come to think of it, really Byzantine way of exploiting an alliance - aid your ally in attacking, then seize the province. They'll regret that, I swear.
    Loucipher
    Chancellor of the Void
    The Ninth Ring of Hell

    "Vexilla regis prodeunt inferni
    verso di noi; però dinanzi mira",
    disse 'l maestro mio "se tu 'l discerni".

    Dante Alighieri, La divina commedia, Canto XXXIV, 1-3

  9. #39
    Host Member Maeda Path Champion, Arkanoid Champion, 3D SuperBall Champion, Simon Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Breakout Champion Zain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Every time I play a campaign the poor Polish get their butt's kicked. So I modded them and gave them all sorts of money. It's fun to see the Polish conquer the HRE!!!

    -ZainDustin

  10. #40
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    I'd like to advocate for the taking of Bavaria first and bribing that long rebel province to the East if you're playing XL. I just started a Polish game and that rich iron producing province will help my troop production and the land to the east will help me establish a "core". To complete the formation of my buffer states to the east I just need to conquer Lithuania (damn boyars!) and I should be fairly secure there. The HRE never lasts for long, plus I'll leave the rebels there to draw attention away. If the Huns give me lip I'll invade into Hungaria. It's so fun attacking downhill.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
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  11. #41

    Default Re: Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    I'd like to advocate for the taking of Bavaria first and bribing that long rebel province to the East if you're playing XL. I just started a Polish game and that rich iron producing province will help my troop production and the land to the east will help me establish a "core". To complete the formation of my buffer states to the east I just need to conquer Lithuania (damn boyars!) and I should be fairly secure there. The HRE never lasts for long, plus I'll leave the rebels there to draw attention away. If the Huns give me lip I'll invade into Hungaria. It's so fun attacking downhill.
    My first serious post in this forum. Whow!

    My experience from Polish campaign: Early/expert/GA on VI+XL mod.

    Taking HRE early isnt a problem, but you may be having trouble in future, especialy on XL mod, where most of the rebel provinces (in vanilla) is taken by new minor fractions such as Lithuanians, Russians, Cumans, Bulgarians...
    Lithuanians and Cumans tend to be agressive. If you not deal with them quickly, expansion to the steppes will be harder, if impossible.

    Secure volynia(preferably by bribing that horse archers) and attack Cumans in Moldavia at once. One thing to remember. Slay every prisoner captured in Moldavia. After securing moldavia, raid Carpathia only. If you have spare troop(not in expert difficulty setting, belive me...hardly enough for securing volynia and moldavia without risking loyalist or rebel revolts), secure it also.

    Now, observe the reaction of Cumans and Russians. Propably, they will be fighting each other, probably in Kiev. Wait for that moment and attack Kiev also. In three sided battle, place army on high ground and wait. Cumans and Rusians massacre each other. Mop up the rest.

    Leave some spears and missile troops, and prepare to strike Lithuanians in Lithuania. If you secure Kiev, Moldavia, and Lithuania, key to the steppes lay in your hands. But do not advance into steppes yet. Secure Pomerania and Prussia. Now, strike smolensk and Chernihov. If you have big army, attack Livonia. Leave other provinces to Novogorod, Russians(if they survive), Cumans and Bulgarians. They will be excelent buffer, when mongols arrive.

    Polish troop roster and availability of troops in other steppe fractions in quite the same. Some may say, that the Poles are without any chance....
    Heh, only one unit has potential to break the power of the steppe chieftains.
    Knights. Good using knights(not only for flanking manuvers) is the key.
    Royal knights are the great for defending Poland and Siliesia. Leave one spearmen(or armoured spearmen) and one unit or royal knights. If HRE or Hungary attacks you, retreat to the stronghold. Assault on keep with feudal foot knights inside...without heavy cavalry bad idea. I once butcherer couple hundreds of german spearmen. Well, only 9 knights and about 30 spearmen survived, but i won siege battle and counerattack was on the way.
    But this is another story to be told


    Have fun with Polish.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war"

  12. #42
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Cde Odin
    I have followed your advice more or less as follows. I have replaced 50% of the halbs with spearmen, to cover the flanks. They take a lot of punishment, but I can not make any attacking move with them, therefore my attack comes from the center, with the halbadiers. I works out well, provided that the front line does not have to face too many enemy units at the same time. I now use the Retainers to divert the attention of the enemy by charging the enemy flanks, with no reservations. Previously I used the retainers as an 'impact in the center' when the forces came in contact, but it did result in much success, so the retainers were always in reserve. The new strategy is a 50% sacrifice of the Retainers, but for the glory of Poland no sacrifice is too costly!!!
    The new strategies are satisfactory, because even if I still lose many of the battles against strong factions, it was not without a brave fight from all the units.
    The trend of routing has thus been reduced, but I still need to improve my strategy more to hold my ground in every (evenly matched) battle.

    Question:
    Do you use different troops for attacking/defending. If so, please give me an idea of your defensive and attacking army structures.
    Last edited by Charlè; 02-27-2006 at 13:46.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Poland

    Hmm, changing halberds to spearmen...

    If you like halberdiers, invest some money and buy more chivalric knights.

    I dislike polish retainers for one reason. They have excellent stats, but they are slow, at least for light cav. When they are available (in high), they are usualy outdated , cos steppe cavalry is faster, and steppe heavy is shooty.
    In early, mounted sergeants and mounted xbows do the light cav tasks.

    I use combo of Chivalric Knights(usualy 8), Steppe Cavalry/Mounted Crossbowmen/Steppe Heavy(rest). This mix is pervect to deal with any army. Few Chivalric Knights on foot will punch great hole in any spearwall, while shooty cav decrease their morale with bow/xbow fire. Rest of your chivs charge and finish the battle in spectacular fashion.
    I rarely use any infantry, for garrisoning duties they are excellent.
    In early, avar nobles are great unit (as good as feudal knights, but disciplined also).

    Russians...ah, one of the hardest enemy of Poles.
    Spearwall is good, but their boyars(your prime target as spearmen) also shoots, so they will be evading your spearmen blocks. Also, when caught, they are very good at melee, so they loss only few men. So, charge them with Knights. If you using blocks of spearmen, tie their infantry, and hit their flanks with knights. Or....concentrate couple units at one point, deploy them on wedge formation and charge them at one unit. Your target will take horrendous casualities and near always, they break. Break through, and charge their whole line from the back...or, roll their line from that break. While whole line starts to run for their lives, chase them with light cav. Few enemy units may hold their ground, so, finish them off with you free units of knights. This rush tactic have one drawback. Problably one or two of your units will take heavy losses, about 50% or more. But it pays off, when you crush enemy army with one swift blow, taking couple hundreds of prisoners.
    Last edited by Asmodai; 02-27-2006 at 15:44.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war"

  14. #44
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Poland/Early/Expert/GA (no mods, no VI)

    First off, I built three peasant units in Poland and a fort in Silesia. The peasants took over garrison duty and I invaded Pomerania with everything else. The rebels fled and I built a fort, a port, a keep, a shipwright and a barque in Pomerania. I was on a tight budget during this time period, so I only expanded my forces after the shipwright was nearly done. I was able to marry off two daughters to the HRE and Hungary, as well as ally with most of the Catholic factions. I then invaded Sweden with my king, his three sons, four spearmen, two urban militias, one HA and two mounted crossbow (MC) units. The rebels again fled.
    At this point, Denmark invaded Saxony. I took advantage of this to take Denmark. Their king returned, looked at my army and fled. I auto-calced the siege and shipped in a peasant garrison. Then I invaded Saxony. The Danes retreated to the fort and I auto-calced this siege too. This got me ex-communicated, but most of my allies stayed with me and the Pope soon died of old age.
    I rebuilt my army and invaded Norway. The MC’s slaughtered a third of the Vikings before I engaged them, for an easy victory. I concentrated on my trade fleet and was quickly clearing 2k florins a turn. I was careful to fill all the governor slots with really loyal peasant units. I only had a 2* son and a 3* “crackbrained” son (with only two loyalty), so I exiled the 3*. To fix this leadership gap, I decided to bribe some rebels. This got me a 4* and three 3* generals, as well as Prussia and Lithuania (after another auto-calced siege). Brandenburg rebelled against the HRE, and I invaded. They fled to the castle and I waited them out for another easy victory.
    In less than one hundred turns I have Lithuania, Prussia, Pomerania, Poland, Silesia, Brandenburg, Saxony, Denmark, Sweden and Norway. I have the highest GA total. My governors and most of my generals are quite loyal (As soon as my daughters come of age, I can marry them off to the low loyalty generals and correct this.). I have had no rebellions. My alliances are strong and my trade fleet stretches from the Baltic to the coast of Portugal. So far, this has been one of the easiest factions to play.
    Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Poland

    I just started playing MTW, and have only played the Poles, so I don't have any insight into how they compare with the other factions.

    I am on my second game right now, having bumped up the difficulty level to HARD from my first game, which was on EASY. For my EASY level game I played through the entire EARLY period.

    I am surprised at the posts here which indicate that the Poles are a difficult faction to play, particularly in the EARLY period. I learned a lot in my first game, but despite my numerous mistakes, by the end of the EARLY period I had NEVER lost a battle, had 100,000 florins in the treasury (this seemed like a lot, is this considered a lot?) and my empire stretched from Friesland to Moscovy.

    I also really hadn't been able to exploit some of the advantages that the territories have to offer. For instance, I couldn't figure out how to build Heavy Steppe Cavalry and Avar Nobles (though I am attempting it now in my next game).

    My armies usually consisted of the following:
    1-2 Armoured Spearmen
    1-2 Woodsmen
    1 Horsemen
    2 Slav Warriors
    4 Royal Knights

    I haven't really mastered how to use archers effectively yet. I tried using javelins and mounted crossbowmen but they were pretty useless.

    The Royal Knights are pretty much the core of my forces. I think they are relatively cheap and easy to build, and they have thrashed every opposing unit I have sent them against.

    All in all pretty good, I think. Relations with the neighbors were great (many alliances, no wars), I would just snap up any provinces of theirs that rebelled. I bribed Sweden and Norway, which was pretty cool, and was just starting to understand sea power when I decided to start over on the HARD level.

    Now, I just started my HARD game, so I don't have a lot to go on yet, but some early observations include:

    1. My generals and princes aren't as good. On the EASY level I had exceptional princes (lots of 4, 5, 6 stars) and fairly able generals. On the HARD setting my generals suck and my princes are mediocre.

    2. Battles are pretty much the same, I still have never lost one. I do notice that the opposing armies seem to abandon the provinces more readily, however. I am getting close to being able to create Heavy Steppe Cav and Avar Nobles. Am looking forward to trying them out.

    So I haven't really had any difficulties yet, though I haven't had to deal with the Golden Horde or the Civil Wars that were mentioned in earlier posts.

    Not sure why others have had such difficulties with this faction.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Poland

    Just wondering, has anyone tried starting in Late with the Poles? It looks pretty batty.

  17. #47
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Yes, I once played a hard GA game in Late with the Poles. I used MedMod, though, mainly to profit from the excellent cavalry they gain in Late, but it was quite a challenge. Actually it was too much of a challenge for me...

    In the beginning, I decided to secure Prussia (in order to cripple the Teutonic Order) and to turn eastwards subsequently, figuring that the HRE would have enough trouble to leave me alone. In this part of tha calculation I was correct, and also in assuming that the main threat would come from the horde since poor and underdeveloped Lithuania would not be able to hold them off for long. Well, the horde killed off 1-province Novgorod and then turned on the Lithuanians which they crushed quite easily. Intending to avoid a fight in my heartlands I seized Lithuania , creating an 'offshore' battleground. Indeed there was ample opportunity to display some skills in fighting off the Mongols (they had only me as enemy), but the war against them took up most of my resources, and I often found myself seriously undermanned despite barely expanding at all. When the horde got into conflict with the Hungarians I hoped for better times...until that one disastrous turn where both made peace and attacked me simultaneously. My small kingdom probably would have been able to fight off both of them had not the Danes decided to join the feast. It was this strong and decently reinforced incursion which broke my neck, and within two turns I found myself being confined to Ruthenia, the most underdeveloped province. Having no choice but to fight against the (allied) invaders with my incompetent ruler at the head of the remaining army (itself still quite decent, just severely lacking missile units), my fate was sealed two more turns later. I was so shocked that I have abstained from another campaign with them since.....maybe turning west is a better option? but then again, the HRE isn't particularly weak right from the start, and expanding westwards wouldn't solve the Mongol problem. Anyway, before solving this question I switched to PMTW where a successful Polish campaign proved to be pulled of more easily.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  18. #48
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Poland is hard to play as,from the starting postions in each era.. They don't got a Bad army selection or anything, so you could easily raise up a small,half decent army and take over and/or bribe the rebel provinces,Like Prussia,etc....

  19. #49
    Kavhan Member Kavhan Isbul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    In Late the Polish are not as bad as they appear, as long as you play in the Glorious Achievements mode. They get plenty of points, the key is to crush the Horde (which happens quickly as everyone attacks them) and expand to the East. Then simply try to hold on for as long as possible, until 1453 arrives.

    That goes for the vanilla game though, MedMod is much tougher. The Poles are easy in Early, but in late they face the two strongest factions - the Teutonic Order (superior troops) and the Horde (simply too many of them). As far as I remember the Poles were limited to crossbowmen, do they get anything better in Late? I need to check. If not, then it would be quite a challenge. Taking the Teutons out is first order of business, I agree. From what I remeber armies crossing from Saxony to Pomerania face a river battle, so kicking the Danes out of Pomerania early (while they still fight with the Swedes and the HRE) might improve the defensive position a little (then a fleet will become necessary, but even without it for the first few turns the Danes simply do not have enough men to attack everywhere along the coast). Maybe then you can take on the Hungarians while they still fight the HRE and steal Transylvania and Transdanubia. Usually the Wallachians will attack the Horde in Volhynia, and the Horde may also get in war with the Ottomans (this one is almost certain). Then it might be possible to hold out until the Mongols degenerate into civil wars.
    It is a hard campaign, and I think I might try it just to see if my theories are plausible.

  20. #50
    Kavhan Member Kavhan Isbul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Tried the Plosih in late in MedMod and they are tough to play. Their cavalry is unstoppable, and their troops overall decent, but there are too many enemies. I invaded Prussia, but then the Swedish and the Order retook it before I could get into the castle. I finally captured it getting excommunicated in the process. This eventually got me in war with the English and a Crusade they sent. It captured Livonia and is sitting there now, unable to do anything more. I attacked the Horde and took Lithuania and Volhynia. However, they keep to come with more and mroe men, depsite they are in war with the Wallachians and the Ottomans. If anyone else attacks me, it will probably be the end of my knigdom, although now the situation is bearable.
    The Polish are much easier in early, although their troops are poor compared to those of most of their neighbors.

  21. #51
    Member Member Camillvs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    I'm installing MTW XL in a while and after reading this discussion I know I want to play with my Country:) It's hard, as I can see, but love to the Motherland is stronger.

  22. #52
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Try MedMod (and don't be deterred by Kavhan Isbul's and my stories ), it only has Early and Late periods but those are excellently crafted. In Late, the Polish unit roster shines, especially with their all-powerful royal cavalry (Rycerzy) and decent axemen, but it's a tough situation throughout.

    Another option: download PMTW and play as Poland in the 16th/17th century. GREAT mod indeed and I had two really awesome campaigns as Poland (the second being prematurely terminated by the death of my heirless ruler).

    If you like Poland, those two mods feature it at its best.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  23. #53
    Member Member Camillvs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Thanks.

    Well, I have some problems with mods at my computer. Game breaks down during loading PMTW, MTW XL or Samurai Warlords campaign. It also happens sometimes while playing "pure" MTW:VI.

    I tried this game a few years ago for the first time. At that time game didn't break down in campaign, but since then I have changed Windows from 98 to XP.

    I don't know if it's a good place for such technical questions.

  24. #54
    Member Member Camillvs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    What is it like with provinces in MedMod? Are they divided better than in "pure" MTW or even MTW XL? I must say, that in MTW XL I really wanted to have at least one more Lithuanian province. It's called "Żmudź" in Polish. Without it the Teutonic Order has to conquer or Lithuania. With this province it would be possible to connect Teutonic provinces without reaching very dangerous Golden Horde's borders.

  25. #55
    Member Member Camillvs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Camillvs
    [...] conquer or Lithuania[...]
    I wanted to write "conquer WHOLE Lithuania". What a weird mistake;) Is there any possibility of post changing, editing?

  26. #56
    Member Member Camillvs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    MedMod also "kicked me of" while loading campaign, but "pure" Scottish campaign tested before installing the mode didn't break down...

  27. #57
    Kavhan Member Kavhan Isbul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Quote Originally Posted by Camillvs
    What is it like with provinces in MedMod? Are they divided better than in "pure" MTW or even MTW XL? I must say, that in MTW XL I really wanted to have at least one more Lithuanian province. It's called "Żmudź" in Polish. Without it the Teutonic Order has to conquer or Lithuania. With this province it would be possible to connect Teutonic provinces without reaching very dangerous Golden Horde's borders.
    No - in MedMod Lithuania is still a big chunk of land, but Poland is divided into 4 provinces. I found the Poles to be extremely fun in early - they have a relativelye asy position, even if most of their units are pretty crappy. The situation in late is entirely oposite - superb units and a horrible position with many strong enemies. Unfortunately there is no high campaign in the latest version of the MedMod.
    If I were you I would not worry about the fact that Lithuania is still a single huge province. If you start in early, you will be either powerful enough to stop the Horde in Ukraine on one of the rivers, or they will goo all the way to the Baltic. In MedMod armies tend to be smaller numbers because of the homelands limitations and when the Mongols come with 15,000+ troops, no AI can really put up a fight.
    Overall, if you are looking for a really tough challenge, which will test your skills to the maximum, the MedMod is the best choice. You will have hard times, but winning is so much more rewarding.

  28. #58
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poland

    Early, Expert

    Having played four Polish campaigns, I am quite confident about the right opening moves.

    First off, you destroy the Hungarians. But totally.

    On the first turn, build Watch Towers and train an extra unit of Spearmen.

    On the second turn, let your King invade Hungary out of Poland. Autocalc. If the Hungarian King is captured, the Hungarians will pay 7000 florins for his release and he will reappear in Croatia. If he isn't captured in Hungary, he will flee to Croatia.

    Third turn: attack Croatia, autocalc and the Hungarians will cough up another 4000 for their King. He will reappear in Carpathia.

    Fourth turn: by this time you should have a half-decent Prince who will reinforce your attack on Carpathia. Easy pickings. And presto! No more pesky Hungarians. You are now in the money and the iron in Hungary and Carpathia is yours to toy with. This is essential if you want to withstand the Mongol onslaught 130 years down the line.

    Now build up your empire by conquering Pomerania (a potential trading harbour, and it cuts off the Germans from the East) and Prussia (a potential trading harbour as well), then some Rebel states to the East (Kiev and Lithuania are a good combination, this leaves you with only two borders in the East) and finally some German territory to the West (preferably rich and iron-holding Bohemia).

    If you feel lucky, attack Bulgaria and / or Serbia (which will be in Byzantine hands by this time) and prepare for some massive battles in which your Spears will face multiple Kataphraktos units. In my last Polish campaign, I outmaneuvered the Byzantines on their own Peninsula and managed to get hold of Constantinople for one turn. Acting in the knowledge that I couldn't hold onto it, I destroyed each and every building in Constantinople like a true barbarian. It worked: the Byzantines have never been a real threat again.

    Don't forget to build fleets (Pomerania, Prussia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, Kiev) and take up trade, no matter what it takes! In my first campaign, I neglected trade and I was still scraping money for Spearmen when others were building Cathedrals and various Nice Shiny Things to keep hoi polloi happy. 't Was the Mongol what did me in...

    Into the breach!
    Last edited by Adrian II; 01-12-2007 at 11:38.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

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