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Thread: Novgorod / Russia

  1. #31
    Prematurely Anti-Fascist Senior Member Aurelian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Several people have mentioned playing as Novgorod in Early, how is this possible? I have VI and every other faction (apart from the papacy) is playable, but not Novgorod, is this a bug? Or do I need a mod, if so where can I get it from.

    Thanks
    Get the Total War XL Mod. You can find a link to it in the Engineer's Guild part of these forums.

    The XL Mod includes 9 extra provinces and a full roster of playable factions. I'm playing an Early campaign as Kievan Russia... and it rocks.

    Just in Eastern Europe, you can play as Novgorod, Kiev, Lithuania, the Cumans, the Volga Bulgars, Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, etc. There is a new 'Levidia' province north of the Crimea, a new Estonia province on the Baltic, and a division of Poland into Lesser and Greater Poland provinces.

    It is a vast improvement on the original game. Highly recommended.

  2. #32
    Urban Cohort Fanatic Member Lanemerkel1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    WOW this is a GREAT guide for russia on high http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/dosw...ar_russian.txt



    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    If I werent playing games Id be killing small anamils at a higher rate than I am now

  3. #33
    Urban Cohort Fanatic Member Lanemerkel1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Did anyone notice this? in the game NOVOGROD is WEST of MUSCOVY right?
    well in real life the city of NOVOGROD is EAST of MOSCOW is this a bug or are the people who made the map dumb gepgraphically?



    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    If I werent playing games Id be killing small anamils at a higher rate than I am now

  4. #34
    Member Member vlad 1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    russ have 2 novgorod citys
    novgorod and new -down novgord(niznij novgorod)

    in game all ok

  5. #35

    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    In my game as the Russians in the high period, I spent my first twenty-five years capturing everything east of Kiev and Lithuania from the barbarians. I was ill-prepared for the Golden Horde when it came. I did a lot of maneuvering of armies to try to deal with it piece by piece; this went on for half a dozen turns. Finally, while the Horde was sieging a Fort in a steppe province, there was a revolt against them in which I gained about 2500 men, many of them Gothic Foot Soldiers and similar class fighters. They had no maintenance cost for some time.

    I don't think that what I did is a great strategy. I was wondering if anyone had experienced the same with the Golden Horde. From that event I was able to mop up their armies.

    best,
    Peter Kirby

  6. #36
    Member Member sandyindiain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    hi, to all the members who have already contributed here. This is my first contribution to the guild.

    After playing a bit of short games using different factions and knowing about the full game, I finally started to play a Russian Campaign on GA mode at High on normal difficulty level and so far doing quite well I think. I am using vanilla MTW, without VI. It is 1240 a.d. (35 yrs gone) and here is how it looks till now:-
    (I took some advice from ur earlier posts specially one from Katank and some others too, thanks to u all. I used no cheat too, not even the map cheat)

    The whole Steppe Land is under my control except Khazar where the Golden Horde is there with around 2000-2500 people. Territories under me right now are:- 1) Novogrod, Muscovy, Kiev, Pereyaslavl (From the start)
    2) Chernigov, Moldavia, Bulgaria, ( Attacked it when there was no one there, 3rd or 4th turn, but Hungary attacked there on the same turn so had a fight with them but managed to get the Citadel intact with other facilities to make pavise arbs and valoured bulgarian brigands), Volhynia, (To stop Polish expansion), Serbia & Wallachia, (from rebels so that Hungary may not get them). (This is in order of taking the provinces)
    3) Then bribed lithuania, the general there was eager to be bribed so did not cost much and got a castle at very cheap which could produce arbs too.
    4) Hungary was on war with me, so I attacked the province of Hungary then and got it on a single blow. Another extra castle for me to produce some starred Militia Sergeants. (meanwhile i was preparing well for the golden horde coming), The total strength of Hungary was splitted and the main production centre was Hungary, so it hurt them well. In the meanwhile the English came with a Crussade to Constantinopole, which i let go pass me and they hold constantinopole.
    5) Hungarians went on attacking me at Hungary to recapture it, and i just defended it for a few turns so their strength gets less (got a good ransom once for the captured King) and then i made the final blow attacking Croatia and Carpathia on a single turn and capturing them both. They became a extinct race and have not re-emerged till now.
    6) Meanwhile the English called for a crusade to Hungary with around 1500 people and stopped at bohemia and is still standing there with around 200 men. They did not get the courage of attacking my around 500 men stationed at Hungary. I went for Prussia at that time but my friends the Polish attacked there on the same turn with greater army, so just let them have it and helped them a bit on the fight, loosing not a single man. Italians were cemented allies after marrying my princess there.
    7) Now I looke towards the Steppe lands, and wanted to reconsolidate for the Golden Horde attack on 1231. Conquered Ryazan, Smolensk, Crimea one after another. Everyone here suggested not to take Volga-Bulgaria and Khazar but I thought of taking volga so that my cash increases a bit as it was not in very good conditions because of the heavy army maintenance. So took volga and earned some cash from it, and thought of leaving it to the GH or rebels as I wanted as they appeared. So left only a single unit of steppe cavalry there but still they did not revolt.
    8) In this time my good ally Germans suddenly called for a crusade to Novogrod from Bohemia and moved diagonally towards it. I was least prepared for this, so gathered whatever I can to guard volhynia first (when the crusade army of 1000 was in poland) and moved them to lithuania (as they switced to Prussia) and that crussade army too is still standing at Prussia (with 150 men) and did not attack my force of around 500 in Lithuania. It actually helped me too, I did not a single rebel in the rebellious province Lithuania as it is suggested to be. Then they proposed a marriage with their princess and make alliance, which i did gracefully.
    9) Now I consolidated totally for the GH attack and built my defences at moscow, kiev, chernigov, ryazan,(halbs and arbs) pereyaslavl, crimea (Militia sergeants, woodsmen from lithuania, bulgarian brigands from bulgaria and ocassional mercenary viking units from the inns). Now All have one full single stack of army now guarding those provinces. I also built ships and merchants at novogrod and lithuania and meanwhile captured the meagre Finland (they are not worth capturing though, very few cash)
    10) As soon as i built my first ship i invaded sweeden with some men from the excess army standing for the german crussade at lithuania and captured it and started rebuilding my defences and trade in the baltic region. I also bribed the province of Livonia then to get another castle with facilities, and some good army and to my surprise the general there was waiting for this (-50% bribery cost) and took only 600 florins from me for the castle and his army. Really dam cheap.
    11) Meanwhile my good ally Italians were at a constant war with the English in Constantinopole (After crussade army) and i just watched and gathered some forces at Bulgaria. When the English were only 200 people still holding Const., I attacked with around 200 men there as the italians also attacked with arond 400 people at the same time from Greece. I let them attack first while my arbalesters were only attacking the armoured Royal Knights & Order Foots only. It was really a very interesting battle. They were defending from a forest on top of a small hill and coming out and going in of the jungle. The italians were soon finished by them and their general flee past my small army and i was in charge. After a good battle (hard fought indeed), i could get them, only 5 men escaped to guard the Fortress for 8 years. So I first tried to bribe those 5 men at 2000 florins but they raised their cost to 4000 florin and their general turned to be very loyal to be bribed. So, later I sneaked through one of my spies into the fortress and he opened the gate and my army took the castle at night with a minimum loss of 30 men only instead of 4000 cash. Think that it was a good idea of me. what do u think? Got a Fortress with all facilities and offices and around 1000 Fl income per turn there with minimal effort. Still not distributed the titles at offer there.

    So now this is the situation, all these provinces are mine, around 35-40% of the total map is now light blue in colour (Colour for Russia). The Hungarians are gone. Other extinct ones are the Aragons, The Byzantines, Papal states. I have scored my full GA points in 1225, whereas others are less than half my points. Now also have all the GA needs, rather more provinces captured than actually needed. Doing trade at the baltic and trying to do the same in the mediterrinian also (venice, etc.). I am the man with most army, highest technology and highest income and highest adoration of my people. All provinces are at 200% at highest tax rates, only some are a bit lesser than that. My good allies are Italy (gave another princess to them), Poland (helping them in their war with germans now), Turks (They took care of the byzantines and hoped for const. too but could not reach before me and are with a big army at nicea and engaged in fight against the GH at Georgia), The Danes, The Spanish, Sicily, etc. Only one I am in war with is England, but wish to make an alliance with them soon to expand my trade. Though the germans have not done any threat till now, not sure how long they will not harm me , so strengthening my western fronts now. The GH are at Khazar for 10 years now but still not attacked me, even not at 40 men guarded volga-bulgaria and i am enjoying the cash that i get from there.

    Now friends what do u think regarding what should i do next? what i have done good or bad as per u, pls make comments. As all my GA goals are fulfilled should i expand more or should i just expand my trades from now on.
    Waiting for the GA to attack through the bridges to face my halbs and arbs. Or should I attack them now?

    Pls give all your suggestions and comments.Thanking you all.

    ---A newbie to the Guild

  7. #37
    Member Member Archungel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    i play as the russians the most and i have a small basic strategy that works pretty well. first of all i moded the russians to start in the early period by replacing the faction of novgorod as the faction russia(cause i like the russians better) and i just liked having more time. but the strategy works for the high period start too. basically just build spearmen and some sort of cheap calvary. and personally command the fist few battles that are small because with horses you can get a huge win over the enemy. as for buildings just build up to a spearmaker and a stable or which ever you need to get the horse of your choice and then build chruches. apart from that build armor and grain production if you want or it is a good area. i never build a high tech level of anything cause the key to russia is that you are poor and you need to basically know that quantity>>quality in many cases. once youve grown and started to encounter the other european countries its ok to build maybe some more elite units. the conquering strategy that i use is to basically conquer NE europe except for where the horde would come in and dont get to frisky into hungery/poland. wait for the horde to come cause if you jump the gun and expan too quickly they will destroy all the work to did to build up those provences in a single turn. after the horde has come and gone expand downwards to greece and take asia minor and the middle east because it is easily defendable and they are isolated and you dont end up making the cathiolic countries mad that quickly. also its very easy to use ships to spread your troops to countries from remote parts of your homeland so you can amass an army in like 2 turns or 1 if if want and have 1000 spearmen in the middle east in 1 or 2 turns. thats power right there. and if 800 of the spearmen die then no real loss cause they probably took out a number of enemy troops and you can reproduce that same army again in like 2 turns. spearmen=cheap and effective for me. hope this helps someone.
    'O Oysters,' said the Carpenter,
    'You've had a pleasant run!
    Shall we be trotting home again?'
    But answer came there none --
    And this was scarcely odd, because
    They'd eaten every one.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Novgorod in Early:

    I tend to play a different way to the constantinople. I actually go for the steppe provinces. I was playing expert and the byzantines had an annoying habit of attacking a province the same time I did. So they got Moldavia and later Khazar. I took Khazar later so I had a nice clean border.

    I go for Moscavia on the first turn and lithuania on the second. I start building watch towers and PULL ALL MY MEN OUT, then put the taxes to very high. The subsequent rebellion is tiny and means I get some very good generals pretty quickly. It also acts as a supplementary income from knocking them back out of my territories. The vital thing when you do this is to lower taxes so that when you move your men in loyalty is above 100%, otherwise you could have a really large rebellion on your hands. Loyalty will rise steadsily (and keep building in the meantime). When they are mostly loyal garrisonthem and then move on to the other steppe provinces. Ideally have an army switching back and fore between two rebellios provinces. I tend to use the large steppe provinces for farming, the smaller ones for building. The baltic provinces are my shipbuilding and trade, and I make a beeline for Sweden, finland (and denmark if they took sweden) for the trade, huscarles and iron. Kiev and Khazar build ships from the other direction to link up trade and so i have a good idea of the balance of power in the world. By this time (1135) I'm making a 10,000 (15000-5000 upkeep)profit per year and am only at war with the idiotic polish (who didnt like me allying with the HRE so cancelled an attack on lithuania). I've been investing heavily in farming for the future trade disruption which will happen, then building up provinces for war. Novgorod as a faction also has a massive advantage in that very few buildings give some very powerful units- spearmaker nets rus spearmen and a simple fort nets you vikings and often slav infantry. I've got 5 provinces building ships so soon I'll have the African and middle eastern coast covered and revenue will get to about 20,000

    My army now consists of +1 valour steppe cavalry (muscovy master horse), +1 vikings (norway), huscarles, rus spearmen, heavy steppe cavalry and, in a few more years, +1 valour boyars. Now I plan to take a few more islands, build up and wait for the golden horde. I could destroy the byzantines/turks egyptians but then the game gets a bit easy nad my favourite faction normally is the byzantines so i want to be friendly. I now have 2 6 star generals and a few 4 star ones so my borders are covered well. My number one general is also almost impossible to bribe, not that the pc ever does it but its a matter of pride.

  9. #39
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Archungel
    if 800 of the spearmen die then no real loss cause they probably took out a number of enemy troops and you can reproduce that same army again in like 2 turns. spearmen=cheap and effective for me. hope this helps someone.
    I mostly rely on the elite Halbrs and Arbls to take the brunt of invasion and defence. I hardly loose a battle when I have 6 Halbs + 6 Arbls on the field, but the problem is to build and maintain them, espesially when the income is not so good.

    What do you do with those unfortunate spearmen? Do you just line them up and say good luck, or do you have some strategy with them? Do you use only the spearmen, or do you support them with other units?
    Last edited by Charlè; 03-04-2006 at 13:47.

  10. #40
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Novgorod / Russia

    I am somewhat stuck with my present campaign as Russians. I have conquered all the East and West european countries except England. Spain, Middle-East and Africa is all that remains, but I am not able to mobilise my armies and resources to even consider taking action in that direction.
    I have large armies but they are not free to move, because of the chaos that result when I move out of a province, that is in spite of a fort + 200 peasants in those provinces. The peasants goes on revolting even when taxes are low!

    " . . . the peasant nations of Western Europe dont like me as their King too much . . . " (said in a sort of Russian accent...)

    I am only controlling rebelions and reappearance acts. It seems somewhat useless to invade a province that brings an income of 300 florins, when I have to support those units that keeps the peace with more than 800 florins, so I have stopped training any more units because I need to raise my cash for buildings and I dont care to take any more provinces. Invading and fighting rebelous peasants is a source of income, but I have grown tired of killing peasants and archers . . . I'm trynig to increase the loyalty, building churches and so on, but it takes so much time with little effect.

    In the South I can see massive Almohad armies moving in an out of Turkish provinces, I suspects that the Turks (a barrier between me and the Almohads) will eventually be destroyed, and I will have the Almohads on my doorstep while my armies are still employed in controlling the rebels. I'm waiting for my own destruction, as I have almost no free army to protect my far and wide borders

    My only plan to break free is to withdraw from the west (destroying all facilities for income and easy re-taking) then head South and destoy the Almohads and then return to the west to retake those provinces. INCOME is the big constrain to my elaborate plan. Any advice out there?
    Last edited by Charlè; 03-08-2006 at 13:32.

  11. #41
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Novgorod / Russia

    It seems you are suffering from the empire bloat effect. How much time do you think you have before the Almohads invade? If it is less than ten turns than a tactical withdrawal may be in order. If not, improve loyalty quickly. Build churches and recruit religious agents: by spamming priests you should be able to improve loyalty fast. Also construct border forts and get spies: it sounds like there are a few enemy agents on the loose as well. If not, spies are still a good way to improve loyalty and they are cheap. If you've got money to spare you can build happines buildings, but I'd make these a low priority. Lastly, but most importantly, check your governors for loyalty-reducing vices and replace them if they are incompetent. Also keep an eye out for zealots: they tend to make provinces of different religions or low zeal unhappy as well.
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  12. #42
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Loyalty . . . underlines the difference between a well managed empire with hopes of survival and an empire that will not stand the test of the Almohad . . .
    The Almohads have now crushed the Turks and they are on my door as I expected. Massive armies are moving about on my borders but have not attacked yet. I am not completely ready for full scale war. I have managed to build some low cost armies to add to my numbers, and free the elite armies from north and western europe. This was achieved by abondoning low income provinces, allowing re-emergence of HRE and Poles and most important increasing loyalty. Thanks for the advice brother Ludens! Spies and Border fort are easy objectives to reach and they have a good effect. The lower tax rates are of some concern, but that compromise must be accepted until all Loyalty buildings are complete. Managing the governors are the only real issue that takes some patience, but it is worth the effort. Some of my (previous) Governors had some really bad attributes as far as keeping the population loyal and happy, since I only focussed on the accumen attribute. Finding suitable Governors is an issue, and I 'interview' all newly trained units, every year.

    The final outcome is yet to be seen . . .

  13. #43
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Oh bloody hell! All seems lost . . . as all Europe is in full scale revolt! Lost a battle where my 200 peasant could not keep a fort against a double stack of the Almohads, and this defeat has encouraged these other people, to rebel against me, their good and just leader. I have build the provinces to everyones needs, and placed agents to be sure and when all seemed so well I increase the tax rate to have maximum income while loyalty is balanced between 100% and 110% in the provinces. Now I lost a meaningless battle, and chaos and fire followed. Aaargh! I dont know how to pick up the peices, my armies are far from the rebelious provinces, and they have to deploy against my invaders, oh and why oh why has my income dropped to negative 2400 florins this year?

    Now can somebody out there tell me what to do . . .
    Last edited by Charlè; 03-15-2006 at 13:12.

  14. #44
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Novgorod / Russia

    I guess my advice was not so sound after all. It sounds like a tactical retreat would have been better. You should not weaken yourself fighting rebels if the Almohads look so powerfull. Perhaps you can still do that. Leave the priests in place (as you want those provinces to be Orthodox whether you or the Almohads occupy them), but consider withdrawing your spies, as they are at great risk when the Almohads capture or build borderforts.

    I guess I can explain how this happened, as a rebelling province tends to drag nearby provinces into rebellion as well. To prevent this, it often advisable to keep loyalty at 120%. I don't know how one single defeat could cause such chaos, but perhaps your king has low influence. In which case: check your generals' loyalty because a civil war might be brewing. Retreating then is not an option, because it will decrease your influence even more. All you can do then is attack and hope to take out the rebels without losing too many valuable men.

    Edit: could it be that one of your ship lines has been severed by the presence of enemy ships? This often causes the characteristic rebellions and the drop in income you describe.
    Last edited by Ludens; 03-15-2006 at 20:39.
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  15. #45
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Death and Taxes . . . badly managed tax rates almost caused my downfall. I selected automatic management of taxes and title assignement, and that helped, I always tax the provinces to death and rebelions and I dont find the right govenors. The completion of buildings came into efect and now internal peace have come and I can focus on the Almohads, I had to pull out of Navare, but was able to hold onto Aragorn. I also managed to recover some trade, but annual profit is still negative 500 florins. To increase my income will help feed the deadlock against the Almohads . . .

  16. #46

    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    I've had two games as High Novgorod, both times on Hard GA. Both times I settled on Lithuania/Kiev line and did not touch Scandinavia or Finland (I find the latter too difficult to hold down, and I never did get the boats or manpower to make conquering Scandinavia worth it; this was before my Denmark game, when I discovered how broken Sweden was). The first time I snuck in too much infrastructure building and the second time I got enough halberds, boyars and mercenaries to autoresolve the horde to death.

    My conclusion is to build against the horde. :p Screw around too much trying to farm the steppes and you end up messing around with them, dueling around Kiev/Chernigov/Muscovy for decades, having to maintain armies in 3 provinces. Once you get Khazar though, then the sky suddenly seems to clear. ;p

  17. #47
    Advance, fall back, charge! Member Charlè's Avatar
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    Post Re: Novgorod / Russia

    The deadlock with the Almohads continues. The enemy can not push me back (from aragorn and Aquitaine) and I do not have the resourse to invade him and defend my two provinces at the same time. Every year I manage to build enough elite troops and dispatch them to the front, where they face certain death ('Only death is certain' from the movie Kingdom of Heaven).

    Income is still a major problem, my funds are not increasing, so it is difficult to develop other provinces to increase unit production of parrabellum troops.

    I have rejected using anything else other than Halberdiers and Crossbows as the mainstay of any army.

    I have to break the deadlock, but how? It seems that the overall development of the empire lacked in many ways in the early years, and it is not easy to remedy at this late stage . . .

  18. #48
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Russia-Expert/Late/GA, MTW/VI, no mods. This is a good challenge right from the start. Whatever you try to do the Golden Horde will invade. It is difficult to do anything because you must save up 8K florins to build a fortress in Muscovy before 1377. I chose a really basic plan that should work most of the time. I “streamlined” Novgorod to produce arbalesters and Muscovy to produce halberdiers and Steppe Heavy Cavalry (Boyars cost more than twice as much to maintain than SHC and aren’t much better.). Buildings that I could do without were destroyed.
    I was able to produce a 4-acumen peasant to govern each province and I gave each a plus-two acumen title to increase income. I set taxes to max. In Muscovy I built a master horse breeder. In Novgorod I built a shipwright and a shipyard. This way I could make the caravel, which is less expensive to maintain than the barque. I trained a garrison for my two provinces of eight arbs, three halbs and four SHC led by either my faction ruler or a prince. Speaking of princes, they can bankrupt you. I usually send them off to get slaughtered in Finland. This will eventually add Finland to your empire. I gave the governorship to one of my combat units along with the plus-one acumen/command star title. A spy and the two peasant units I had built kept Finland happy. A trading fleet will get you several hundred needed florins from Finland.
    I built three caravels to get my trade going. I built a third army as above and took Sweden from my ally Denmark. Sweden is a good trade province. While beating off GH attacks, I was able to add Norway, Denmark and Saxony to my realm. I ransomed the Danish king for 11K, which helped a lot. In 1405, I am third in the GA race, my trade fleet stretches to the western Med and I have a disposable income of 3K. Spain and Egypt lead in the GA race because they get more points for their many homeland provinces. I haven’t decided which one I will destroy first.
    Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Novgorod / Russia

    Is late Russians a challenge? Perhaps i should try that out oneday...

    I usually mod the Novgorod as Russians and take it from early... conquer the steppes while fending off the Poles and Byzantines and just about when you do ok, the Mongols come. You fight for your life and eventually in a couple of decades you send them packing from the steppes after which one can enter at leisure in Poland and Hungary before taking over Anatolia and Greece.
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