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  1. #151
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Early, Expert

    It is possible to both take on the Byzantines and crush the Egyptians early on. Don't spend all of your measly initial troops on the Egyptians though, make some shiny new ones at the expense of the Byzantines first.

    You start by taking Lesser Armenia (this serves to tie the Egyptian Sultan to Antioch) followed by Trebizond which has an Inn -- the mercenaries will help you keep the Byzantines at bay. If you send your Emissary after the Emperor, he will accept a ceasefire once you have taken Trebizond.

    After which you should start concentrating troops in Syria in order to cut off the Egyptian Sultan (token force into Antioch to tie him, main force into Tripoli to conquer it) and ransom him, ransom him again, then kill him.

    Then go for Constantinople.

    In case of doubt however, you should go for the Byzantines because of (1) the money, (2) Constantinople (imams and new, better fighting units including ships), and (3) the strategic depth which you will need soon enough, primo against any Crusades, secundo against the Golden Horde.

    Last edited by Adrian II; 12-19-2006 at 20:11.
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  2. #152
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    You forgot the three magic letters...THA!


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
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  3. #153
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    You forgot the three magic letters...THA!
    Of course, how stupid of me! How could I forget the, um, the three magic letters... The all-familiar, well-known magic formula. Hahaha!








    Thai Hotel Association?.. Türk Haberler Ajansi?..
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  4. #154

    Default Re: Turks

    Ok this is going to be off topic but this was the most active thread

    i havent played in a long long time and forgot how to attack islands

    like im england but how the hell do i attack and hold ireland with troops and how do i attack provinces that arent dircetly connected to mine?

  5. #155
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by ksudylan
    Ok this is going to be off topic but this was the most active thread.
    You are welcome, m8.
    Quote Originally Posted by ksudylan
    like im england but how the hell do i attack and hold ireland with troops and how do i attack provinces that arent dircetly connected to mine?
    Place one ship in each sea connecting your province of departure to the target province. Make sure no enemy (or enemy-to-be, in this case Irish) ship is in any of the seas you need to travel through. Once you have secured such a 'sealane', you can move your troops across the water to the target province in one turn. Just lift your army stack and put it down in the target province, as if normal.

    As for holding Ireland, you will have to figure that out depending on the circumstances.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  6. #156
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    Of course, how stupid of me! How could I forget the, um, the three magic letters... The all-familiar, well-known magic formula. Hahaha!








    Thai Hotel Association?.. Türk Haberler Ajansi?..
    Turkoman (sp) Horse Archers. As maneuverable and deadly as standard horse archers in Early but with enough morale that they don't break when the enemy farts in their general direction.

    And cheap cheap cheap!
    Last edited by Vladimir; 12-22-2006 at 14:26.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
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  7. #157
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Turkoman (sp) Horse Archers. As maneuverable and deadly as standard horse archers in Early but with enough morale that they don't break when the enemy farts in their general direction.

    And cheap cheap cheap!
    Just joking, man, I was born a Turcoman Horse Archer. I raise my first THA in Armenia (where I tech up for the heavies anyway) as well as Tripoli. I have them running so many circles around those Byzantine Jedi Princes, by the time they engage my spears they are down from 40 to 14. The only mistake I make by reflex sometimes is to let them get mano a mano with a unit of Trebizond Archers. Not smart if the Jedi has seven stars and the Trebizonders have, like, valour 4.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  8. #158
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    I’d like to post some insights on the myriad of Turkish units available. Everyone seems to think that Armenian Heavy Cav are the best horse unit you can get. After all, they start with one point of valour if you build them in Armenia, and a Master Horse Breeder ups that to two points. However, there is no iron in any of the provinces where you can produce them. To the contrary, you can make valour two Ghulam Cav in Lesser Armenia with a MHB and then send them off to an iron province that can produce this unit and upgrade their weapons. You cannot do this with AHC. Plus-one weapons make Ghulam Cav the equal of AHC in overall combat power and anything better puts them over the top, as demonstrated in the first three slides in my link.
    https://s132.photobucket.com/albums/...&current=1.jpg

    In slides 4 and 5 I show the comparison of Turkish Horse Archers (v2 from Tripoli with a MHB) to Steppe Heavy Cav (note that SHC can get v1 from a MHB). No comparison really. In Late era, Sipahi of the Porte are stronger units, although only half the manpower and they cannot start with any valour bonus. You could stay with SHC throughout. To produce them, just take Khazar after you gobble up the Byz and build the requisite infrastructure.

    In slides 6-8, I show a comparison of the hybrid archer units available. I usually produce them in Rum, because eventually Ottoman Infantry gain a point of valour there. Futtuwa are fine, but cannot start ‘valoured up’ by a Master Bowyer. After you take Anatolia from the Byz, you have an opportunity to build v2 Turcoman foot if you build up to a Master Bowyer there. They are slightly better, but I usually use Futuwwa until Ottoman Infantry become available. Now the big question, should I make Ottoman or Janissary Infantry? Their stats show OI with a slight edge, plus they have a shield and an armour piercing weapon. JI are Elite and Disciplined, though. I go with the Ottoman Infantry. They don’t need the whole Military Academy infrastructure, so I can make them in Rum and send them off to an iron province to get gold weapons. If you happen to get an iron province with a mosque, ribat, Grand Mosque and a Military Academy, then go for JI.

    In slide 9, I compare Muwahid and Saracens. They look similar, but are apples and oranges, really. Muwahid, with their great charge, are for the offensive and Saracen are great at holding the line. Both can be valoured up with a Master Spearmaker. I usually make these in Edessa and then tech up to JHI. As with the OI vs JI argument, Saracen or Muwahid have a better combat score than JHI if they get the golden weapons.

    Slide 10 shows the often forgotten Hashishin. People sometimes think that they are just archer hybrids. They have the special ability that they can hide anywhere on the map, not just in forests. So in a defensive, you could hide them along the enemy’s line of march and attack from surprise.

    The next two slides show the comparison of AHC to their traditional adversaries, Kataphraktoi and Golden Horde Heavy Cav. As you can see, nothing to be afraid of there. The last two slides show that Golden Horde HA’s and infantry are also inferior to what you can produce.

    FYI
    Last edited by Agent Miles; 08-17-2007 at 16:49.
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  9. #159

    Default Re: Turks

    I Play on Early, hard and I like to blitz the Byzantines on my second turn while I make alliance with Egypt to keep them from attacking me for a couple of turns.

    I pump out spearmen in Rum nonstop, Send my King and his stack into Georgia and the Byzantines always retreat, Send my 4 star camel and spearman into treb and that army always retreats. By taking Treb I able to make my 4 star into six because of Treb title giving two stars and I have a pre-made INN. I also attack the providence left of Rum on my second turn but i cant remember the name.


    The very next turn I send my new merc and my six star into
    Const and 50% of the time the Byzantines will retreat and I'm now able to build the grand Mosque if I wanted to within 4 turns.



    My Strategy is great because
    1.)Egypt is no threat because they only pump out peasants.
    2.) I get the best providence in the game making life much easier
    3.) After Byzantine retreat from Const, they're usually now in a cival war and no more worries of any Jedi. In my current game after about 15 turns they only have a 2 star king. and accepted my ceasefire.

    4.) Going after Egypt first means your will have to deal with
    three or four 7 star generals from the Byzantines.


    Egypt usually attacked Syria once I take Const but Im able to defeat their 1000 + army with about 5 or 6 camel.


    Once I'm at peace with the Byzantine I quickly destroy egypt large army and usually make 10,000 by capturing their king.

    I send my emissary into Norway, bribe the army and attack Sweden. I use Sweden to pump out ship so my empire connects right away and I build Norway but keep the loyal low so rebel come and I train my Generals.


    Once I have taken Egypt I build up my trade by pumping out ships nonstop for the rest of the game. I'm usually making between 20,000-30,000 every turn and have 5 plus ships in each sea lane.


    Very important because someone will eventually sink your ships if you have just 1 or 2 in some sea lanes.

  10. #160

    Default Re: Turks

    The Turks are my favorite MTW faction, it's the one I start when I get bored with the achievements of another catholic faction ;) I had a brief spell of liking the Trade Factions (sicily, denmark, italy), but well, now I want conquest!

    At the moment, a GA early/Hard game I'm the Top Monarch (9 influence GA score 56, the runner-up, the Doge has what? 39 GA points). I conquered the Egyptians and could atcually fund the war against both the Eggies and the Byzantines with sultan-ransom-money. I decided to build more camelriders this time, as the Egyptian camels managed to give me quite a bit of trouble at first. After a bit of a scuffle I made short work of the Byzantines, with a little help from my great friend King Béla II of the Hungarians and the camels again proved their worth. Nothing stops Kataphracts better than masses of cheap camels it seemed... the byzantines were cowards too. I only had to fight a few offensive battles and fend off a few of their counter-attacks.
    At the moment, around 1155 , my generals (mainly Sultan Mehmed's 5 cousins, his 3 sons and the Amirs of Rum, and Constantinople) are all 4 or more stars and I expanded into the steppes, an operation in which the camelriders could shine once more, panicking all that steppe cavalry. Just to make the east all green while I decide who to attack. My borders are a bit numerous though, Greece, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Kiev, Lithuania to the north, and Egypt in the South. There are 3 ways to expand. At the moment, none of my neigbours have great generals. Command value 3 at best...

    1. The Almohads, they ain't worth it. With two provinces left and the Spanish advancing, the chance that I can profit from a war with the Almohads is small. I could easily capture the sultan in Cyrenaeca but if the Spanish infidels take Tunisia, the faction is finished and I will not get a ransom payed.
    besides, I don't want to be the one and only muslim faction just jet.

    2. The Hungarians. Yes, my faithfull allies against the recently re-emerged byzantines (On rhodes, crete and cyprus. no ships, no threat). They just jumped in and grabbed Serbia right under my nose while I tried to take it from the cowardly emperor. and what have they done to repay me? Did they send one of their princesses to unretard my bloodline*? no! Did they agree on my proposals? NO! hmm...
    so I guess I might have a go at them...

    or...

    3. The Polish. Yes! they are my neighbours too! An attack on them might provoke a crusade but I'm not scared of crusades. Also, they do not have an alliance with my most important ally in the region(and the forthcoming conflict), so they are a nice target the absence of a Hun-Pole alliance means that if I attack one of them, the other won't mind, or even help me (which the greedy huns are bound to do, they're sneaky like that).


    and okay, there's that little corner in the north, called Finland, where the Novgorod Grand Prince lives in exile... not worth it also.

    No crusades have come as yet, the infidels are way too busy murdering each other.

    Cavalry armies are definately an option for the Turks, I have one dedicated cavalry army made up of AHC, THA and Bedouin Camels, led by the 7 star Amir of Rum (a bedouin himself) and nothing can stand in their way.

    Naval trade is something I'm just starting now, The byzantine ships had to be gone first. My first target goal is the Ligurian sea, so I can quickly take out the pope if Crusades begin to appear on the horizon. No pope, no crusades...

    I guess Bedouins will also prove themselves as my "warriors who repay the nation" when the Golden Horde comes... but that's still 70 years in the future... man, I was fast this time!


    * the difficulty in scoring a foreign princess for your heirs means that undesirable vices will eventually show up, especially in the retardation area... even with 9 influence, the various christians are still to bigotted to send me one of their beauties for my noble sons...
    Last edited by Master Young Phoenix; 07-26-2008 at 10:51.

  11. #161

    Default Re: Turks

    I have found all of this to be really helpful, thanks!

  12. #162
    Dismembered Member Marquis de Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Miles View Post
    Slide 10 shows the often forgotten Hashishin. People sometimes think that they are just archer hybrids. They have the special ability that they can hide anywhere on the map, not just in forests. So in a defensive, you could hide them along the enemy’s line of march and attack from surprise.
    Yes, this is very true, but since in a surprise attack like that they would most likely be isolated, they would be easily swamped by the enemy's troops and slaughtered to the last man, especially if they get charged by heavy cavalry. And since the unit is expensive and takes two years to build, I find it more of a luxury, something I'd use to make a battle more interesting, rather than the type of unit I'd rely on in battle. THA would handle the job of flanking harrassment attacks against an advancing enemy much better because of the larger unit size and their ability to retreat and maneuver quickly.

    It would be interesting to see how 8-10 units of Hashishin would fare in a line of battle against the enemy, though.

    Mind you, I play the XL mod where basic units like Spearmen, Urban Militia, Militia Sergeants and FMA have much higher morale and are thus much more likely to stand up to a surprise attack.

    Just my two cents.
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  13. #163
    Dismembered Member Marquis de Said's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Young Phoenix View Post
    * the difficulty in scoring a foreign princess for your heirs means that undesirable vices will eventually show up, especially in the retardation area... even with 9 influence, the various christians are still to bigotted to send me one of their beauties for my noble sons...
    I have tried to get Christian factions to marry their princesses to my heirs hundreds of times, and I can't ever remember succeeding at it. Or maybe it's happened once or twice out of all those tries. So I think this is pretty much a lost cause.

    On the other hand, I think this has been tested and proven (?) in another thread, can't remember which one, but having foreign princesses marry your heirs has absolutely no influence on how retarded your geneology eventually turns out. I think it is rather random, and these traits tend to spring up when you become more powerful.

    This is just my theory, but I somehow feel, that if your king has 9 influence and otherwise high stats, the game will try to assign stats that are close to his stats, maybe a few points less or more, to his heirs. Now if he has 8 or 9 stars, if the AI ends up with a figure that is slightly higher, which would be more than 9, it drops it back to zero or 1, essentially starting to count from the start again, therefore you get the "retarded son" of a brilliant king. This way of calculating stats is slightly bugged, and another indication of it is the fact that, if your king has zero piety and sends out a crusade that fails, he will have 9 piety after that, which means the stat went back to the maximum value. The same would happen if your king has 9 piety and sends out a successful crusade: he gets zero piety after that. Even though it's bugged, it is one of the more amusing aspects of the game.
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  14. #164

    Default Re: Turks

    I usually blitz the Egyptians whom are far less dangerous adversaries due to the Turkish horse archer and due to their lack of jedi princes. If lucky, during the process i get to ransom the Sultan a few times and in no time i have taken out the midddle east for the Sultan;s sake. Then i build up a bit, until i feel strong enough to take on the Byzantines, this usually gives at least one worthy battle due to the many stars and many lives of the Jedi kataphraktoi Princes. However eventually Byzantium is broken and the only Citadel in early falls in Turkish hands. Preparations are made immediately there towards the military academy that will grant us access to janissary heavy infantry (the other janissary types can wait as the Turks have many other good bow units) in light of the Mongol visit. Depending on how much i want to humiliate the Khan i prepare for either to simply defend enough in Georgia to divert Mongol attention in the steppe or alternatively, to completely eradicate the Mongols and proceed to take over Russia.

    Going towards Spain instead is a valid but somewhat risky move that requires a lot of naval supprt and quite some time to really pay off the significant investment. On the contrary moving in the Balkans, eastern europe and russia before making a move west is far better imo.
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

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  15. #165

    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Miles View Post
    I’In slides 4 and 5 I show the comparison of Turkish Horse Archers (v2 from Tripoli with a MHB) to Steppe Heavy Cav (note that SHC can get v1 from a MHB). No comparison really. In Late era, Sipahi of the Porte are stronger units, although only half the manpower and they cannot start with any valour bonus. You could stay with SHC throughout. To produce them, just take Khazar after you gobble up the Byz and build the requisite infrastructure.

    FYI
    Sipahi of the Porte do have region bonus in tripoli....

    personally i modded them to be 40 men unit,as i feel them mistreated by CA..)):

  16. #166

    Default Re: Turks

    welcome cori, to the org,
    indeed the Sipahis of the Sublime Porte are somewhat mistreated and they do get the Tripoli bonus. Many regions give bonuses to more than one unit but these are not spelled out in the province info - as only one unit is mentioned.
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  17. #167
    Misanthropos Member I of the Storm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    IIRC, it's Edessa, where Sipahis get their +1 valor, not Tripoli.

  18. #168

    Default Re: Turks

    Thanks for the correction I . I haven't installed the game ages now. Better stop answering if not certain.

    All bonuses can be found in a column in the unit_prd file, although if memory serves they also have been posted either here or the .com somewhere.
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

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  19. #169

    Default Re: Turks

    Returning to MTW after playing Shogun, got back to the forum for an inspiration…

    I used Gnome editor on my CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11 file to check on regional bonuses for the Turk’s troops:
    12.JanissaryBows Georgia
    24.Turkoman Foot Anatolia
    39.Turkoman Horse Tripoli
    49.JHI Bulgaria
    54.Ottoman Infantry Rum
    79. AHC Armenia
    82. Gulam Cavalry Lesser Armenia
    86.Ottoman Sipahi Edessa, Rum
    104.Sipahi of the Porte Tripoli
    Numbers are for columns in an editor..

  20. #170

    Default Re: Turks

    A note on the Steam version.

    A fortress is now required for the Military Academy; the route to JHI just got 20 years longer.

    I have never tried to edit the Steam version, anyone know how to fudge the files...not even sure where they are located now.
    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 07-03-2016 at 00:47.
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  21. #171
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Should be wherever you place your steam games, mine is d:\games\steam\steamapps\common\Total War Medieval 1 Gold. Under that directory it should match the CD version.
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