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Thread: Almohads

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Summery of topic provided by ah_dut

    summary plus own tips:
    Alhomads: They are a fairly unique and peculiar faction. They can fight Christian style or Muslim style.
    First I wish to talk about the Alhomad style of battle.
    First the AUM or alhomad urban militia. This is considered to be able to pwn any unit in early. ( I disagree VG will spank them on equal everything) They are heavily armoured and can be used in early to attack even the powerful FMAA head to head. They are your legion unit, the meat grinder to whoop somebody’s sorry ass. However, they need support.
    To support them you have brilliant skirmish units. In the words of Doug-Thompson ‘You have one unit that is unconventional -- desert archers -- and one unit that is just strange -- Berber camels.’ I agree but they are very micro heavy. I like to send the DA out in a skirmish line with the AUM right behind them. They are good archers so use them. They are faster than conventional troops so keep an eye out. I like Berber camels a lot. While unusual they are able to dispatch Jinetes and other pesky units, while skirmishing. They are slow but capable in combat against horses.
    Your other skirmish unit deserves special mention, the murabitin javelineer. It rocks put simply. They are AP so can kick those damnable Spanish royals (who you will be fighting right?) these are better pursuit troops than DA in my opinion. They have some combat skill and are also fast.
    Cavalry: you have relatively boring cav. You have pursuit cav in the Saharan cav, average medium but not capable in the drawn out melee in the form of the ghulam cav. You have an excellent attack cav in the form of the ghulam bodyguard. Nice and lethal.
    Doug-Thompson defines what to do very well: MOPPING UP SPAIN

    Finish off the Spanish if they survive in Leon. You may wait a turn or two to get some Murabitin javelin troops from your spearmaker in Morocco, and AUM from Cordoba. Peasants in Castle’s garrison will also free your good units.

    If you were lucky enough to kill the Spanish king in Castile -- who's always a tough son-of-a-gun -- and his heirs, you will be able to leave the rebels in Leon and attack Valencia if you want to. Nobody's going to reach Leon while you hold Castile, although the Spanish faction will probably re-appear.

    Now get yourself a shipbuilder, you’ve got a long coast ahead of you. Also get yourself Portugal or you’ll have a lot more to defend now whoop some Egyptian ass now. Make sure you rule from the Pyrenees to Sinai. My job is done.
    Doug-Thompson has the idea for the rest of the game: Make multiple Jihads. If you don't know how to use Jihads, learn.

    Make Bedouin Camels in Egypt and elsewhere. They play havoc with Crusader knights.

    Learn to use Faris. They are one of the few new units you get as the ages roll on.

    If you want decent heavy cavalry, you're going to have to take Armenia and Lesser Armenia sometime, to get Armenian Heavy Cavalry.

    Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Retrain, retrain, retrain.
    Ah_dut

    additions: against knights, give em naptha



    Edited: To include this summery.



    Lional of Cornwall
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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Lional of Cornwall
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  4. #4
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    Bullethead
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    From:Wakefield, LA
    Registered: Aug 2002
    posted 09-03-2002 04:03 AM





    V'ger said:

    I'd be interested in knowing if the Elmos are this uber when played by a human?


    In the right hands, I'm sure they're even worse. However, those ain't my hands

    My 1st attempt at the campaign, I chose the Elmos. I had no idea what I was doing (still don't, actually ) and the Spanish looked pretty tough, so I bribed El Cid and signed a peace treaty with the Castilians, built up a garrison there with alims to settle the religious problems, and went and backstabbed my Islamic brothers in Egypt.

    Lesson to any other newbie Elmo players: NEVER, NEVER, NEVER do this.

    Anyway, the bulk of my armies are way off on the east front. I take Egypt, I take Sinai. The fight sways back and forth through Palestine and Arabia, but eventually I corner the Egyptians in Tripoli. At this point, the Turks declare war and start pushing me back in a big way. Whoops. The remnants of my once-proud army is pushed out of Egypt back to where it started. Fortunately, the Turks then get into trouble with resurgent Egyptians so don't bother me any more.

    However, while this eastern misadventure is at its worst, the perfidious Spanish break our treaty and boot me out of Cordoba with massive force, although the keep holds out. So now I've got a 2-loss war going and the Spanish outnumber me greatly. But despite the odds, I must retake Cordoba so I send in all available forces. Fortunately, the Spanish army splits at the same time, part taking Portugal and part overrunning El Cid. Thus, after a hard fight, I regain my capital province but lose Valencia. And to my dismay, I find Cordoba burned to the ground--only the keep itself remains, so all it can produce in its own defense are peasants.

    I rush up the 2 new units from Morocco and Grenada, along with my king and his Ghulams. Cordoba now faces large armies on all borders. Fortunately for me, only 1 attacks, but it still outnumbers me greatly. I manage to crush it, but the commanding prince inflicts terrible damage on my forces before escaping. And it was only 1 of 4 large Spanish armies I have to deal with.

    It's apparent that there's no way I can rapidly build up forces in Spain. Not only are there insufficient local facilities, but I'm now pretty much out of money anyway. It's also apparent that if I stand still, I'll be crushed. Cordoba being useless, I decide not to hold it but to go on a guerrilla rampage, trying to hit the weakest Spanish force available and lay waste to as much of Spanish territory as possible.

    So I move most of my army to Portugal. Thus I sidestep the hammer blow that falls on Cordoba that turn. I destroy every building in Portugal. Next turn, I repeat the manuever in Leon. And so it goes for 8-10 years, my gradually dwindling army frantically pillaging hither and yon across Spain. Portugal, Leon, Castile, Valencia, and Cordoba all change hands several times as the Spanish try to pin me down and I somehow keep eluding them. This entire area is reduced to an utter wasteland of burned-out cities and ruined forts. Famine, plague, revolts, and religious unrest (I had several alims plotting revolution in the Spanish heartland all this time) follow in the wake of the armies. No mercy is shown by either side, all generals involved maxing out on dread. Spain has become Hell on earth.

    But north and south of the devastated region, both sides are slowly, painfully slowly, building up reserves on very tight budgets. I choose to build up troops in Grenada while the Spanish build a church in Aragon. Next thing I know, a huge Crusade bulldozes its way into Cordoba, freeing the regular Spanish armies to finally corner my king in Leon. He, his 2nd son, and his entire force are slain but he takes many Spaniards with him.

    Then it's Grenada's turn. 3 times the Spanish come, Crusade and all. Twice their forces are shattered. But the 3rd time's the charm. Out of all the Elmoheads who ever lived in Spain, only 2 alims are left, still fomenting rebellion behind the lines.

    Without missing a beat, the Spanish push on and Morocco quickly falls. Then the Spanish halt to deal with religious uprisings in several provinces. I, however, cannot take advantage because the bulk of my surviving generals have become disillusioned and carry out a successful coup. By the time the new dynasty is in power, the Spanish have assassinated my alims and reassert control over all of Spain.

    And then it comes, the Great North African Crusade Blitzkrieg, an unending stream of them from Spain and then from Italy across the sea. The 1st Spanish Crusade is targeted on Egypt. After the loss of all my rich provinces and best generals, followed by civil war, there is nothing I can do to stop it. It slaughters and burns its way from Morocco to Egypt, which it successfully takes. My provinces return to my control when it passes, but they have been gutted.

    And that was just the 1st of the series. Soon, others follow, targeted on my provinces in succession working east to west, so that the western provinces get pillaged repeatedly. And in between, the Italian vultures descend with amphibious Crusades of their own to pick my bones. The brutality reaches levels beyond even that in Spain as the Spanish exact their revenge.

    I lose count of the number of Crusades that overrun my lands. 4 or 5 from Spanish Morocco, 3 or 4 from Italy at least. All that saves me from being completely occupied all at once is the fighting between Spaniard and Italian over the same provinces, and between Spaniard and Turk over Egypt. While often reduced to a single, barren province, still I regain others as Crusades move on and my long-suffering people rise in revolt. This gives me more armies than I could ever hope to build in the blasted ruins of North Africa. With them I finally manage to destroy a Crusade. It's Italian and I kill the Doge who is leading it. He had no heirs so Italy ceases to exist.

    But this is the last glimmering of the Elmohead Empire. Within 2 years, all that remains is Cyrenacea with massive Spanish armies on both flanks. The Spanish have taken Sinai now so feel safe enough to add their Egyptian forces to the final assault. The last Elmohead Kaliphah goes down with his remaining troops in a final, appocalyptic battle. Jackals scatter his remains across the bloody sand.

    Thus pass the Elmoheads from the international scene after a mere 100 years or so, unmourned by even their Islamic brothers. They go down in history as a psychotic regime of utter barbarism, infamous for their brutality, whose final desperate gallantry against the Crusades is forever tarnished by the innumerable atrocities they committed both then and earlier in Spain. What scant traces remain of their architecture are today used as latrines by all passers-by. But no-one remains near their ruins or mass graves by night....

    ------------------

    The lessons I learned from my disastrous Elmohead experience are as follows:
    1. Kill Spain as soon as possible. If you don't kill Spain, you'll lose your best provinces beyond all hope of recovery. And then it'll just be an endless stream of Crusades all across North Africa until the bitter end.

    2. Gain control of at least the North African coastal waters. Otherwise, you'll have endless amphibious Crusades dropping anywhere and everywhere.

    3. NEVER attack the Egyptians before destroying the Spanish.

    ------------------
    -Bullethead

    In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria

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    Lional of Cornwall
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  5. #5
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    EARLY

    Kill the Spanish. Let me repeat that. Kill the Spanish.

    I play the Almohads by dropping taxes to the floor to preserve loyalty, leaving one unit in Cyrenacia and moving everything to invade Spain.

    OPENING MOVES:

    Turn 1: Sultan moves from Algeria to Morocco. All other troops, except a token garrison in Cyrenacia, move that direction. Que Almohad Urban Militia in Cordoba and Desert Archers in Morrocco. Build an observation tower in Cordoba and one in Cyrenacia. Que a spearmaker and 20 percent agriculture in Morocco. I que 20 percent agriculture in the other provinces, too, but suit yourself.

    Turn 2: Sultan moves from Morocco to Cordoba, and all available troops do so, too.

    Turn 3: Invade Castile. If the Spanish fight, kill the king.

    ALMOHAD EARLY BATTLE TACTICS

    Fighting with the Almohads is not the same as Christian slugfests. AUM are superb units, even dominant in the early period. However, you're trying to hold down your casualties because you are going to have to garrison large, rich rebellious Christian provinces. So you need to be crafty and patient.

    In fact, I recommend turning the time limit off on battles.

    Skirmishing

    You have one unit that is unconventional -- desert archers -- and one unit that is just strange -- Berber camels.

    Both units can skirmish well. They can go forward a bit, fire, cause significant casualties to unarmored units, and fall back.

    However, keep the AUM and skirmishers close. Desert archers are faster than melee infantry but not that much faster. Berber camels have little to fear from an equal number of jinettes but aren't as good against knights. More important, Berber camels have poor morale and are too slow to get away from any cavalry if they get into trouble. They need support.

    Your skirmishing units have poor morale. If they rout, the chain reaction can destroy your whole army.

    So, keep your AUM in easy support distance of your skirmishers and inflict as many casualties as you can with arrows before making melee contact. Jinettes are a favorite target for arrows. So are urban militia. Militia are unarmored, very vulnerable to missiles, not very fast and they have an anti-armor bonus against AUM if they ever get to melee.

    AUM -- The Killers

    After causing as much havoc and death as possible with missiles, close in with AUM and finish things. Keep the desert archers handy, though, even if they are out of arrows.

    When an AUM unit routs its opponent, break off the pursuit and have that AUM attack another unit that's still fighting. If possible, let a unit of Desert Archers who are out of arrows keep up the pursuit of the routed unit. Desert Archers are fast. They'll be tired, but will do a decent job of keeping up the scare.

    Have Berber camels get around the Spanish king's unit and melee attack it from the rear. Be careful about using your Ghulam Bodyguards, but don't be shy.

    The pursuit

    When the general rout begins, that's when Saharan cavalry comes into its own. They chase down routers superbly and have decent enough melee stats to do something with their catch. I once had a very early battle with the Italians, who had invaded Valencia, and one unit of 80 Saharan cavalry took 516 prisoners.

    The Saharans should be drawn out in a two-rank line to spread their net as wide as possible. Put them in a wedge to squeeze through tight spots. Remember to charge through fleeing units, not just order an attack.

    The more routers you capture in Castile, the less you'll have to fight in Leon. Even if you ransom the prisoners, the Spanish will have less money for new troops.

    MOPPING UP SPAIN

    Finish off the Spanish if they survive in Leon. You may wait a turn or two to get some Murabitin javelin troops from your spearmaker in Morocco, and AUM from Cordoba. Peasants in Castile's garrison will also free your good units.

    See the section about Murabitin assassination's of royalty farther down.

    If you were lucky enough to kill the Spanish king in Castile -- who's always a tough son-of-a-gun -- and his heirs, you will be able to leave the rebels in Leon and attack Valencia if you want to. Nobody's going to reach Leon while you hold Castile, although the Spanish faction will probably re-appear.

    Many Almohad players bribe El Cid, but I think that's far too much money for a good general, some Jinettes you can't rebuild and some spears.

    MURABITIN KING KILLERS

    Javelin troops take a certain knack and a lot of practice, but are very deadly, especially to small groups of knights that are stuck in melee. This makes them king-killers extraordinaire.

    Spread javelins out two ranks deep, set them to hold position, turn fire at will off and put them close to the target before ordering them to attack. If they are right behind AUM that are also only two ranks deep, that's quite close enough.

    Murabitins are also much better at pursuing routers than Desert Archers. They are just as fast, have much, much better melee stats and have very good morale.

    DEFEATING EL CID

    The secret of effectively fighting El Cid is Saharan Cavalry. Remember queing that 20 percent farming in Morocco? That's so you can build a horse farm to replace casualties to your Saharan Cavalry and build more. (Cyrenacia has a bonus, but is too far away. Also, you get little revenue from the 20 percent agriculture improvement you need before you can get a horse farmer. Do that one later.)

    Put peasants in conquered Spanish provinces and move good units on El Cid. Keep your army together and make him bring his army to you. If he plays coy with the Jinettes, wipe out his spears with Berber camel arrow fire, with Saharan cavalry accompanying them. When he tries to interfere with jinettes, slip the leash on the Saharan cav and close in with the rest of your army, particularly Ghulams.

    Now you have, all of Iberia except Portugal, Aragon, and Navarre.

    NOW WHAT?

    Get your self a shipbuilder in Cordoba. You have a very long, very vulnerable coastline.

    I make allies with Aragon and put one fleet each in the Gulf of Valencia and along the coast north of Spain ASAP. Now I'm safe from sea-borne invasion. Christian states can only attack me through Crusade if they march through Aragon. If Aragon conquers Navarre, so much the better.

    PORTUGAL AND DIPLOMACY

    Somebody's going to invade Portugal. It had better be you. Christian invaders can come by sea, right through your ship screen, to invade this rebel province. Then Leon and Cordoba are exposed to invasion.

    Speaking of the Christians, I like to ally with the one that's winning of the inevitable French-English war. That way, if they start a Crusade and the shortest route is through you, you can allow the Crusade to pass. Muslim brotherhood be damned. After all, you're going to get ...

    THE EGYPTIAN ATTACK

    Plan on the Egyptians attacking you. Exceptions are rare.

    Your mission is to make sure they don't get anything for their trouble but the Cyrenacia sand trap, and that they soon lose that -- and Egypt. Leave Cyrene taxes very low. Make sure the Egyptians have to have a large garrison there since the province is so loyal to you.

    The Eqyptians don't have anything that can effectively stop AUM and desert archers. Here, I'd recommend dropping the initial skirmish and just go at them, Christian style. The desert archers will cause plenty of casualties on the unarmored Nubian spears and Bedouin camels from behind the AUM. Murabitins will take care of any Ghulams who give you trouble.

    When the Egyptians rout, you'll be amazed at the number of prisoners you will take.

    Also, you should seriously consider building a Ribat in Cordoba fairly early and declaring Jihad on Cyrenacia. A little extra influence and piety for your ruler and some free units, including siege units, never hurts.

    OK. I RULE FROM THE PYRENEES TO SINAI. NOW WHAT?

    You're on your own from here.

    A few general tips:

    Control the sea (duh)

    Make multiple Jihads. If you don't know how to use Jihads, learn.

    Make Bedouin Camels in Egypt and elsewhere. They play havoc with Crusader knights.

    Learn to use Faris. They are one of the few new units you get as the ages roll on.

    If you want decent heavy cavalry, you're going to have to take Armenia and Lesser Armenia sometime, to get Armenian Heavy Cavalry.

    Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Retrain, retrain, retrain.



    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  6. #6
    Member Member TheBMeistor!'s Avatar
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    The key to defeating the Spanish is to hit them as quickly as possible. I send one Saharan Cav unit to defend the border with Egypt, the rest of my armies I move to Cordoba.

    The first turn that your king can invade Spain do so, if you use all the units available the Spanish will retreat to Leon.

    If you let him retreat to Leon you will have to defeat an even larger army of mostly Jinettes, which can be a real pain. Instead I would invade Castille with about 6 units; your king, 4 DA, and one AUM. He will fight an army of that size and it is possible to kill him this way.

    I lucked out a little on deployment though I think as the Spanish army deployed opposite a wooded hill in the middle of the map. As soon as the battle started we both charged up to meet in the center, my AUM gave him quite a surprise when he recieved thier charge in the woods. No idea why the Spanish king led a charge from the front of his army into the woods but the net result was a dead king and an entire army routing.

    The king died with no hier and Leon became a rebel province, which was much easier to take later.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I prefer to split my forces during the first year my king attacks.

    2 AUM, two berber camels, 1 DA are all you need to take Leon.

    hit them the same turn as invasion of Castille with rest of forces.

    you should be able to get at least two AUMs and 2 DAs in Castille along with peasants for affordable mass.

    I use peasants for archer protection.

    peasants in hold hold actually take a bit of time to chew through and my AUMs and king get time to flank and break off their attack.

    the battle is a bit tough but as TheBMeistor says, it's quite possible to kill the Spanish king.

    In Leon, rush the enemy inf with the AUMs and take some potshots at the enemy inf with DAs before chasing the enemy archer unit around the map.

    the jinettes can be easily handled by your berber camels.

    the boys outranged the jinettes and can also kill them in melee.

    as long as your berber camels keep those lousy jinettes off the backs of you AUMs, they can chew through any enemy inf and rout the entire Spanish lines.

    you may be at risk of a rebellion once you take both but you should be switching to pumping peasants in cordoba and morocco on the turn you attack.

  8. #8
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Early/Normal

    Bribe El Cid and use him, along with your Khalife or Prince (who comes the second or third turn) to conquer Castillia.

    Never rely the Egyptian bastards; fortify and build up Libya.

    Don't build armourer+ in your African provinces, maybe except Morocco.

    Crash the Spanish and Aragonese ASAP. Know the value of El Cid's Jinettes and use them efficiently.

    As valid for every faction, build up the strongest navy on the map, not the second Crash anybody potentially threatening your naval superiority.

    The game is yours.

    PS: Thanks Katank
    _



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  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I respectfully disagree with bribe cid part.

    I find that bribing him on hard or expert is equivalent to economic suicide early on and that mean no units for a while.

    Hence, I would just use the khalif and forgo the cid, rather going for an extra AUM or two.

    Crushing Spain and Aragon and esstablish mountainous border at Navarre/Aragon is essential.




  10. #10
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    There's a real problem with letting Leon go rebel if you kill the Spanish king in Castille. On the harder difficulty levels, there's a good chance the Spanish faction will re-emerge, stronger than it ever was.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I never had a reemergence there in the two times I tried this. (both on expert).

    I did get some nasty christian rebellions though but my AUMs nicely handled them with the aid of forests and hills.

  12. #12
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ May 22 2004,21:09)]I never had a reemergence there in the two times I tried this. (both on expert).
    You're luckier than I've been. I've only had it happen once, but it was a dandy -- about two full stacks, mostly militia trash but a lot of jinettes, and a five-star king.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    that doesn't sound that bad.

    a few units of AUMs hiding in the forest can take that.

    I hate stupid militia seargents though because of their AP ability.

    DAs can knock them out nicely but jinettes are a pain as you said.

  14. #14
    Member Member Kristaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ May 22 2004,21:09)]I never had a reemergence there in the two times I tried this. (both on expert).

    I did get some nasty christian rebellions though but my AUMs nicely handled them with the aid of forests and hills.
    well, you were lucky. a reemergence can happen in any of the provinces or a few of them that the faction used to hold before it died out. i've seen Spanish reemerge all over the map after some plague killed their last king (but before his death they held a good part of the map).
    Kristaps aka Kurlander
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I know the horrors of reemergence but found it a risk worth taking as often this early on, the game engine cuts you a bit of slack.

    sacking both is necessary. sacking Leon to stop the neverending flood of annoying jinettes and castile to prvent more spanish javs, spears, and possible crusades.

    attacking only one woudl also mean that the spanish king gets to go to the other province and consolidate, possibly opening cordoba to counterattack.

    if you have sufficient amounts to safeguard cordoba and assault the Spanish homelands, then that type of attack is too late for my liking.

    it's best to beat the Aragonese to Navarre as otherwise it could be a bit more messy.

    just my two cents.

  16. #16
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Almos are definately one of the easiest faction to start with in early..... (along with danes, egypt imho )

    You get the AUM, which is by far the most cost effective infantry in the game until high (And even then it's still quiet good... only varian guards are seriously better but they are also seriously more expensive and slower and harder to get)

    Berber camels are ok units... they can skrimish a little and they can take on most light cavs and maybe win if they have superior position/moral/upgrades, something that can't be said for all other early era archers. and having an extra rout chaser is never bad.

    Saharah cavs are very nice, yes stepp cavs are better but no one can get those early on, while u have a province that give you +1 bonus, you also now have the best light cav early on

    The key is... as everyone else already meantioned, control iberian penensula fast, you may choose to bribe el cid if you want, I think if you want to do that you either do it at the first turn or wait till u completely kill spain. cause u won't have enouhg money in between to really do it anyway... try to mass everything and then take spain fast. after that build up a good shipping force while try to steal egypt (though don't go too deep into the middle east yet imho... too many crusade and too many enemy to be worth it)

    Once you got the money rolling try to push into france, I would usually ally with the italians and sicillians to secure trading, try to take the biggest advantage out of the french/english war, then push into the brithish isle and scandanavia and see if the holy roman empire is avaliable (usually they are just huge army of crap units... perfect for ur army to counter).

    Try not to fight with the italians and byzantians (or really who ever has a big stake in the mediterrian trade) for as long as ur able.... try to secure the western side of the map and let the hoard help you destroy the east... if you havnt' pushed deeper into the middle east yet start doing it as the hoard arrive.. should be easy as whoever is winning the turk/byzantian/egyptian slugfest is gonna get hit hard and be quiet occupied.

    key to countering the western army:
    1. napta and javlin: when the going gets tough, blow them up I say, if u can properly use these u can defeat even the most sophisticated army in late age

    2. camels: berbers are only decent vs light cavs and somewhat acceptable vs medium cavs like mounted sergents... but for the heavier stuff definately try to get bedoiuns and flank them....

    Disadvantages:

    Spearmen: probably the biggest thing the almohads miss for a complete early game domination is the best spearmen in early game ... saracen infantry, instead they have the rely on nubians which are actrually pretty decent too, the murawhid infantry are more for charging... use ur nubians to take the heat and charge them with muhawid/bedouins and ghazis.

    Horse archer: if you don't have VI then u don't have faris:/, which kinda makes it hard when fighting vs high age egypt or the turks/mongols in general.

    Heavy cav: a disadvantage for muslims in general but even more so for the Almohads.... try to gain an early advantage ..... ur gonna need to rely a lot on numbers and superior generals later on..... if you want you can try and secure the armenian heavy cavs early as they are good if u use them well but fighting deep into the mid east that early is just dumb..... ghulums are ok replacements but don't count on them to beat good units in a head on charge.

    coastline: a rather too long coast line means u gotta get into the sea quiet fast or have crusade landing left and right....

  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    I actually find armored up saharan cav from cyrenacia to work better than ghulams.

    I know it may sound crazy but V2 saharans from there have 4 attack and their defence need to be pumped up a bit with some armor but the main purpose of cav is to maneuver and the saharans don't suffer that much from less defence and their speed makes them maneuver better than ghulams.

    the more attack also means more of an impact of shock charge in flank or rear.

    they can also catch stuff better.

    so without AHC, you best cav bet is saharans.

    if using nubians, try and get them some armor and morale or they don't do their job very well.

    sometimes I just prefer muwahids and AUMs for aggressive attacking infantry line instead of pin and flank types.

    they ae also the only muslims with militia seargents which is interesting.

  18. #18
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    That is true, but it depend on ur approach towards battle I guess... having a pinning unit is still good and nubian is one of the best you get.... IIRC stats wise they aren't that much suckier than feudual sergents and they got better moral/disciplin... and you may be right... between the royal guards and the v1 + saharans there's not much of a point to ghulums...... (sad.... the other 2 muslims need them even less lol)

    Taking Egypt relatively early so you can train bedoiuns is kinda nice too.... and will keep the eggies in check more.. but never do it until you kill the spaniards.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    establish 2 province border of navarre and aragon before hitting the eggy.

    I would also recommend against heavy AUM use as they woudl be fried.

    by ghulams, I meant ghulam cav as ghulam BGs still pack a punch although 20 men units aren't that useful in raw numbers.

  20. #20
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (katank @ May 26 2004,16:46)]I actually find armored up saharan cav from cyrenacia to work better than ghulam (bodyguards)
    Now that's something I hadn't considered before. Have to give that a try.

    As for the lack of spears, the murabitin/muwahid combo may be a pain to micromanage but is quite effective. I don't miss Saracen Infantry that much.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    yep, they are only weak in the defence and armor department but work reasonably well once at 2 armor or so.

    they also compensate for lower defence than ghulam cav by being stronger on the attack.

    I frankly prefer cav with more attack and less defense as I use them as finesse units for flanking and rear attacking and they usually don't have the defence come into play, only killing rate.

  22. #22
    Member Member Kristaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ May 27 2004,20:29)]
    As for Almo's lack of decent spears in the Early: I disagree. The nubian spear-men are carbon copies (sta-wise) of feudal sergeants that Catholics get: and there is no better spear unit (except Italian Infantry) available to Catholics in the early era.
    Kristaps aka Kurlander
    A Livonian Rebel

  23. #23
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    actually, saracen inf are carbon copies of chiv seargents although not as tough as italian inf.

    The nubians are pretty good in being disciplined and actually work better in the desert than saracens.

    However, I prefer muwahids and AUMs with militia searges and occasional dash of ghazi as my infantry when playing the almos only recently adding in some murabitins when I got a renewed appreciation for javs.

    Almos battles line should be far more oriented towards attack and mobility rather than defense as nubians.

  24. #24
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    I tend to use the AUM as my prime force... I find in most cases it's probably better to just try to steam roll through everything with AUM while using ur cavs/muhawid to flanks adn ur archer to provide a little cover fire... and use teh napta/javlin to provide the big focus fire power where you need them (usualyl where ur trying to charge through with ur AUM ....)

    This seems like a completely opposite of turk style... where u should try to seriously own them with horse archer then break them with charge... while using some saracen inf and napta+turko foot to hold a steady middle line where u can regroup....

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    me too, almos are a lot more rush heavy with the fast murabitins and the hard hitting AUMs with muwahids being attacker spears as well while lacking the defensive saracens.

    steam rolling is better with almos.

    However, in later periods, you shoudl switch more to the turk style and use faris etc to tire them out before going in as your AUMs will actually get beat by CMAA.

    BTW, your name is quite apropos, eh?

  26. #26
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    The problem is that I don't have VI which means I don't have faris , though usually if you can secure the Iberians fast you should easily still be able the win big tiem during high thx to much better upgraded units and overwhelming numbers (not to meantion you still have the arbalest... just mass them with attack upgrade and u win :P)

    Gernada AUM with 2 lvl of armor upgrade is still far far better than any CMAA :P

    Another great thing about using Muslims are teh Jihads... prety much means once u take a piece of land there's little chance of anyone taking it from you again.... I usually try to get some nice shipping access (espically vs the eggies and whoever is winning the turko/byzantian war,) and land several army at their shore... they will at least retreat from a few of those province and once they try to take it back I just move to anotehr province and summon a few jihad to overwhelm them :P

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    it's fairly true that AUMs are still strong particularly from granada which means they can match CMAA with iron upgrades etc, but in general they are less effective.

    also, the late era catholic knights are actually more of a problem as you rarely have a sword duel but may faced bonused Chiv knights, lancers, or gothic kngihts pouring onto your AUMs and your AUMs just not able to hold them.

    lack of saracens or other heavy spears mean that it's not so easy to coutner those uber knights.

  28. #28
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    But as long as you destroy spain and the french relatively quickly it is rare that anyone can pull off a significant amount of knights against you :P and when they do try a huge amount of arbalest with some nubian/murhawid to try to tank a bit while kamakazi them with naphta and murabin is ur best bet I guess... and if they don't take the charge head on than usually AUM can last a while vs knights too

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    that's fairly true.

    I frankly haven't tried high or late almos and I guess kngihts woudln't be a problem with my rabid blitzing either.

    HRE can barely survive often so it's hard to imagine them fielding gothics but sometimes they do.

    I do think that uber upgraded AUMs with weapons etc. can take most everything though.

  30. #30
    Member Member ah_dut's Avatar
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    summary plus own tips:
    Alhomads: They are a fairly unique and peculiar faction. They can fight Christian style or Muslim style.
    First I wish to talk about the Alhomad style of battle.
    First the AUM or alhomad urban militia. This is considered to be able to pwn any unit in early. ( I disagree VG will spank them on equal everything) They are heavily armoured and can be used in early to attack even the powerful FMAA head to head. They are your legion unit, the meat grinder to whoop somebody’s sorry ass. However, they need support.
    To support them you have brilliant skirmish units. In the words of Doug-Thompson ‘You have one unit that is unconventional -- desert archers -- and one unit that is just strange -- Berber camels.’ I agree but they are very micro heavy. I like to send the DA out in a skirmish line with the AUM right behind them. They are good archers so use them. They are faster than conventional troops so keep an eye out. I like Berber camels a lot. While unusual they are able to dispatch Jinetes and other pesky units, while skirmishing. They are slow but capable in combat against horses.
    Your other skirmish unit deserves special mention, the murabitin javelineer. It rocks put simply. They are AP so can kick those damnable Spanish royals (who you will be fighting right?) these are better pursuit troops than DA in my opinion. They have some combat skill and are also fast.
    Cavalry: you have relatively boring cav. You have pursuit cav in the Saharan cav, average medium but not capable in the drawn out melee in the form of the ghulam cav. You have an excellent attack cav in the form of the ghulam bodyguard. Nice and lethal.
    Doug-Thompson defines what to do very well: MOPPING UP SPAIN

    Finish off the Spanish if they survive in Leon. You may wait a turn or two to get some Murabitin javelin troops from your spearmaker in Morocco, and AUM from Cordoba. Peasants in Castle’s garrison will also free your good units.

    If you were lucky enough to kill the Spanish king in Castile -- who's always a tough son-of-a-gun -- and his heirs, you will be able to leave the rebels in Leon and attack Valencia if you want to. Nobody's going to reach Leon while you hold Castile, although the Spanish faction will probably re-appear.

    Now get yourself a shipbuilder, you’ve got a long coast ahead of you. Also get yourself Portugal or you’ll have a lot more to defend now whoop some Egyptian ass now. Make sure you rule from the Pyrenees to Sinai. My job is done.
    Doug-Thompson has the idea for the rest of the game: Make multiple Jihads. If you don't know how to use Jihads, learn.

    Make Bedouin Camels in Egypt and elsewhere. They play havoc with Crusader knights.

    Learn to use Faris. They are one of the few new units you get as the ages roll on.

    If you want decent heavy cavalry, you're going to have to take Armenia and Lesser Armenia sometime, to get Armenian Heavy Cavalry.

    Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Retrain, retrain, retrain.
    Ah_dut

    additions: against knights, give em naptha
    additons: Katank says get v2 saharans in cyrenia and a maste horse breeder, it's very good and beats a ghulam any time




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