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Thread: Egypt

  1. #61
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    abyss guards aren't slugfest units but can do well in forests I suppose.

    they don't have much armor though and might get shot up even in the trees

  2. #62
    Member Member BalkanTourist's Avatar
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    This is off topic, but katank you go over 200 post in a week I thought life in NY was a little more fast paced? When do you have all this time? I read posts every night but I don't have a lot of time between working and playing the game.



    Alea Iacta Est

  3. #63
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    dude, they call it the city that never sleeps for a reason.

    welcome to the life of an insane insomniac.

  4. #64
    Member Member BalkanTourist's Avatar
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    Love the city I want to move there whenever I can afford it
    Alea Iacta Est

  5. #65
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    nice...

    interesting if people can found like TW clubs throughout the country.

    LAN party




  6. #66
    Typing from the Saddle Senior Member Doug-Thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (RollingWave @ July 10 2004,15:46)]I tried abyssian guards a bit more today.... they are pretty decent acturally if you don't consider their rigged upkeep.....

    That's a pretty hefty thing to never consider, though. You can train a new Ghazi for the cost of upkeep on one Abyssinian Guard.
    "In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

  7. #67
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    so true.

    turkish ghazis are even cheaper.

    they have no access to abyss guards but it's not a great loss.

  8. #68

    Lightbulb Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by katank
    ok, muslims units are whole different flavor.

    watch for opportunity and maneuver.
    I would also add ambush if the terrain permits, mind if I make a quick suggestion? Why don't you set up a quick ABC guide to tactics for Muslim factions? Am sure they'll be plenty (especially newbies) of posters who would find it extremly usefull....

  9. #69
    Member Member Tsavong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    i would find it very usefull.

  10. #70
    Member Member Ravenloch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    I too....currently in campaign as Egyptian...have the Byz king pinned on malta. The Golden Horde running from me...and now my biggest threats are Spain and Poland.
    We Have a Rendezvous with Destiny

  11. #71

    Default Re: Egypt

    Hmmm... I dunno. While Abyssinian Guard are more expensive than Ghazi, I find that Ghazi simply can't last in prolonged battles... After one, two or at most three charges against enemy elites, they will be at less than half-strength. Abyssinian Guard are almost as good in flank attacks but seem to last a lot longer.

    In a long battle with > 1000 troops on both sides I keep having to withdraw Ghazi units from the battlefield and bring in fresh ones, whereas I can usually keep Abyssinian Guard for nearly the entire battle.

    Plus there is the hassle of constantly sending decimated Ghazi back from the frontlines to replenish them.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Egypt

    You must choose, what unit suits you better.

    Abysinians have better staying power than ghazis. But ghazis can potentialy cause more damage, but they are extremely vulnerable and they get buthered sooner or later. Treat the ghazis as living bomb, or fanatical mob of suiciders. (they in fact are the fanatical suiciders)
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war"

  13. #73
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    I find Abyssinians to be invaluable. In fact, they form the backbone of my army from High on. Abyssinians with Silver/Gold armor are very durable and have a pretty good survivability.
    Ghazis are awesome when used as flankers, but if attacked even from the front, they literally evaporate on contact. In Early, a Nubian/Ghazi combo works out reasonably well, but from High on I find myself using mostly Abyssinians, with Nizaris doing the flanking. I find that by the time of the High Era upkeep is simply a non-issue.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  14. #74

    Default Re: Egypt

    hey, i played mtw for three years and i''ve just stopped this year to try out rtw. i always hear about re-training units in mtw. is this really possible? if so, how do you do it? in rtw its been made very easy since there is a retain option in the interface. i hope you can answer this question since i've always wondered about it.

  15. #75
    Die Frenchy! Member Joshwa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Move the unit to a proivince that has the capacity to train the troop type you want to retrain. Open the unit production box and drag the unit from the battle map into a production slot

  16. #76

    Default Re: Egypt

    wow! that simple huh? imagine playing for three years and having to disband decimated units only to recruit a brand new one! well, that's what you get when you don't read the guides. thank you very much for the info.

    hmmm...now i suddenly have this itch to go back to mtw.

  17. #77

    Smile Re: Egypt

    Horse archers are a must, provided you know how to use them, in any Muslim faction army. Although you are required to micromanage (they get mauled easily) them they can once you are familiar with how they should be used they can become one of your most efficient units in your army.

    E.g. Whilst playing the Turks I was repeatedly invaded by Crusading forces 2-3X larger then my army. The Horse Archers alone (I didn't even need to use my JHI!) killed 300-400+ troops and captured 100-200+ troops, the ransom money was phenomenal.

    Not only that they're also perfect for (setting) ambushes.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodai
    You must choose, what unit suits you better.

    Abysinians have better staying power than ghazis. But ghazis can potentialy cause more damage, but they are extremely vulnerable and they get buthered sooner or later. Treat the ghazis as living bomb, or fanatical mob of suiciders. (they in fact are the fanatical suiciders)

    I rather like using Ghazis to take out archers, their extra spped lets them catch retreating skirmish units and then rips them to pieces once they connect. If they can approach under cover of some trees then better still. Abysinians on the other hand can break through a defensive line with far lower casualties than Ghazis.

    both good
    Old warriors know more tricks!

  19. #79

    Default Re: Egypt

    IIRC Abyssinians don't quite have the Ghazis charge bonus or charge speed, but they do have better defense stats, so can melee quite well. Ghazis are pure flankers and are hopeless in melee. The best HA's for the Egyptians are the Faris, they better than the Mamluks.

  20. #80
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Normally, Faris would be better, but you can get valour 2 Mamluk HA's in the Sinai (province bonus) with a Master Horse Breeder, which beat even valour 1 Faris.
    Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Egypt

    Mamluk Horse Archers:

    Charge: 2
    Melee: 3
    Defense: 2
    Armour: 3
    Morale: 4
    Dismount: Desert Archers
    Requires: Castle, Bowyers Guild Horse Breeders' Guild
    Available: High/Late
    Valour Bonus: Sinai

    Faris:

    Charge: 4
    Melee: 3
    Defense: 2
    Armour: 3
    Morale: 4
    Dismount: Dismounted Faris
    Requires: Castle, Horse Breeder, Swordsmiths' Workshop, Bowyers Workshop.
    Available: Late/Early
    Valour Bonus: None

    Otherwise pretty much identical.

    The main differences are the dismount type and the charge. The Faris' superior charge is the key. A 2 point charge bonus is the standard horse archer/turcoman etc charge bonus. A 4 point charge bonus makes the Fari more useful. The Dismounted Faris are also a respectable unit.

  22. #82
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    If you use Yas' comparison tool it looks like this:
    https://s132.photobucket.com/albums/...arisattack.jpg

    You can check it yourself at:
    http://totalwar.co.kr/medieval/indexx.html
    Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Egypt

    No doubt about it that with the +2 valour bonus from the Master Horsebreeder, the Mamluk Horse Archers are better in melee. The Faris would be better in the charge however and is available earlier. I prefer my cavalry to have a strong charge above all else. If they're pure horse archers that's not so important, and as pure horse archers the Mamluks win hands down, due to the higher starting valour, but we're not talking about simple horse archers in this case. More so their abilities to function as cavalry in the cavalry sense. Unlike defense, morale and melee, the charge bonus is not increased by valour, so no matter what general you put above them, they'll still have that 2 point charge bonus. The Faris, not being elite IIRC, also gain valour more quickly.

    -Edit: No I'm pretty sure faris are elite in fact, so forget that last point.

    -Edit2: The point I'm trying to make is that there is probably a better unit to throw into melee, once it's missiles are out, than a Mamluk Horse Archer. Faris IMHO would be a better choice due to the superior charge bonus. Valour can be obtained later.

    Last edited by caravel; 01-31-2007 at 17:33.

  24. #84
    Member Member Agent Miles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Good point. I guess if you built Faris in Early, you could get them up to valour 2 (or better) by High, when Mamluk HA's became available. V2 Faris beat V2 MHA's.
    I just can't bring myself to lead a charge of 'fairies'.
    Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.

  25. #85
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Personally, I prefer to leave the Bizzies after I conquer the Turks so that they can deal with the horde. Then, when the two have worn each other down, I use the massive trade funds to blow apart the bizz with more advanced units (ie-Nizaris, faris). While I wait for that I usually conquer some Almo provinces to get some breathing room for Egypt. As for the units, I personally prefer Abysians to Gazis, I usually have so much money w/ Egypt that costs really don't matter much. I like that they listen to orders all the time and don't get themselves slaughtered just because they were so eager to get at the enemy that they charged Katanks head on instead of waiting for a full flank. I prefer Faris to MHA because I can mass produce one valor Faris, whereas there is only one province for two valor MHA. Also, I'm big on the charge bonus for my cavalry, Faris make pretty good flankers once you are done using them to wear down the enemy.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Egypt

    I just came back to MTW (orgered MTW2, but not sure it's gonna run on my top system which I can't afford to upgrade).

    Played Danes a bit, and England, but then switch to Egypt. Running XL too, so it's not out-of-the-box.

    I took Syria turn 2, and Meso turn 4 or 5. Managed to throw Turks into rebellions (which helped Byzzies and Armenians grab a Turkish proince each). So I picked off Edessa once the rebels took out the Turks and then arranged a cease fire. Think I will mostly turtle now.

    I have 4 full stacks armies, 4 Berber Camels, 4 desert archers, 4 Nubians and 2 UMs with 3*, 4*, 4*, 6* generals, but I am a wee bit intimidated by those top Byzzie and Armenian units. If they come to me, I can handle them in the deserts where camels are in their own element (and heavy armor isn't!), I think. If I go after them, I suspect it's gonna be massively bloody. That said, about to push my fleet into the Aegean (had some losses to the Turks) to keep an eye on the backdoor into Constantinople. If I can backstab my Byzzie allies with a good shot at grabbing that, I will. But leaving them as buffer to horde is appealing too.

    Meanwhile Cyr is next. Rebellion there. Waiting for rebels to starve out Almo garrison. Almo's at war with Spain (of course), so backway up coast should be relatively open still. Until the crusades start. Need to be ready. Love to grab the whole north coast though.

    Trying to convert Rhodes too. Saw the taxes are at low and loyalty is at 126. Dunno if I can convert enough fast enough to do much, but it's worth a shot. If Byzzies suffer a rebellion or civil war, having a lot of converts will probably guarantee it flips.

    XL sure changes the economy. Trade barely paying for itself, but the farming is better. Treasury increasing a decent amount at the moment despite heavy building.

    Question: How can I drop loyalty in Arabia? Trying to use it as training ground for heirs but it's hanging at 104 loyalty on very high taxes. Will a really BAD governor help? (I have it unassigned and with no buildings at all at present.) My king's stats went up and nudged it into the safe range even with nothing there to boost loyalty. I got two whole rebellions before it settled down.

  27. #87
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Nice campaign so far, vonsch!

    Quote Originally Posted by vonsch
    Question: How can I drop loyalty in Arabia? Trying to use it as training ground for heirs but it's hanging at 104 loyalty on very high taxes. Will a really BAD governor help? (I have it unassigned and with no buildings at all at present.)
    try to find someone with many happiness-affecting traits (of course negative ones), like greediness, unhinged loon et al. those will greatly affect loyalty and should provide the wished-for rebellions....
    it may take a while for the traits to develop accordingly, though, so you might have to wait a little....
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  28. #88

    Default Re: Egypt

    Thanks, Deus. Couldn't remember if there was anything other than V&V on leaders to drop own loyalty in a province.

    The Elmos didn't cooperate, they sent in a force to lift the seige in Cyr, so I just declared war. The Turk front remains stagnant with me, though the Byzies have taken another Turk province. I think they are down to one. I don't want to draw Byz attention to myself so not playing there. Artmenia is turtling in the middle (I'm allied with them),

    Instead I rolled up the whole African coast. Was a lot easier than I expected. Never sent reinforcements to my army, just garrisons. Captured the Moroccan Keep or Castle without a seige! They have a fleet in the strait, so suspect they withdrew to Cordoba or Granada. Since this is XL, no land bridge there. Leon-Castille has the Elmos tied up in a war which they are slowly losing too.

    Rhodes is up to almost 40% Muslim, so have hopes it will start getting unruly soon. Need something to throw the Byzies into turmoil. Those large stacks headed by skillion star heirs are scary. I have just my one great starting general parked in Meso with an anti-cav stack. Other than that it's middlin ones in the 3-4 range. All those Elmo retreats along the African coast didn't help that heir much. Sure helping the treasury though! Those are rich (aside from Cyr).

    Starting to see the Crusader spies now. So have Syrian boys in all the target provinces to keep them uninformed and dead. By spies I mean emmisaries. Not many spies or assassins getting caught so far there. The Byzies keep sending emmisaries and princesses down to park in the borders... well, they did. They are mighty short of princesses now.

    Arabia may not be worth the trouble as a training province. The current rebel spawn (king died, got a small downward tic that rebelled it) is a high quality heavy cav and some trash, so going to bribe that one. Forgot it's also a homeland objective which means I lose points if I forget to control it during a check year.

    I'd use Cyr for training, except that risks breaking my LOC to the western coast. Sea lanes are so brittle. It's hard to find a good high rebellion, low value province (Scotland aside!) to use. And Scotland highlanders aren't pushovers. And it's too far from Cairo for this game. Portugal would work except it's pretty valuable. May end up using it though, since can't build caravels. Taking Iberia would mean loads of iron provinces too.

  29. #89
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by vonsch
    Rhodes is up to almost 40% Muslim, so have hopes it will start getting unruly soon. Need something to throw the Byzies into turmoil.
    Deploy spies there, the more the better...a whole army of spies (provided they don't have a border fort there)! Spies are much better than anything else at inticing rebellions.

    As for the taking down part, the Byz are hard to come by in Early once they start rolling so I'm afraid you'll have to wait for a really good opportunity. Like when their, preferably newly ascended, emperor is isolated on a small island and you start the war by sinking their fleet (or blockading him at the very least). Depending on the Byz' average garrison, chances are some provinces will start rebelling; additionally, most AI factions seem to dislike the Eastern Romans and will maybe join a war against them. The Armenians should be in for that as they have proven to be nasty little backstabbers almost every time I had to deal with them.

    If it all doesn't work out then...well, it may get hairy! Lure their heavily armored armies into the desert where they will fall prey to your light troops, especially the kats. Ghazis on a flank charge are damn effective against them.
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Egypt

    The Serbs decided they wanted North Africa. I disabused them of that, though it was bloody. Still, I was using cheap troops and I can afford the losses anyway.

    Can't quite make spies yet. Syria or Egypt could build the alehouse, but Syria is pumping out assassins to ward off the Crusade scouts and Egypt remains my only top line ship and unit producer. Another decade or so should see a change there. Lots of castles about done. Rhodes is above 60% muslim. Still not drop in loyalty though, so suspect it's gonna take spies for the trigger. At least it will be easy to pacify.

    It's 1133, and the Byzies agreed to an alliance again, so hoping to keep them calm. Trying to start army upgrades now: ghazi inf, saracen inf., faris, and some armor upgrades to move north... or hook left up into Iberia. Waiting to see if the Byzies move before I decide.

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