Aragonese

[Maloncanth]

I've taken a few looks at Aragon's game in late. It's a pretty hairy starting position. Actually, I think it's about the hardest opening the game has to offer and it is indeed rated Very Hard so it's gotta be worth a look. The first time I played it the game totally bogged down with the Russians ahead in points. I've started up a new game so I'll post some of the stuff from it here as I go along. The game is on VI, Hard-GA-Late Era

Challenges
Aragon has two major hurdles on the GA game. The first is securing the Homeland points, which are vital because I don't think Aragon has any other way of getting them. You start with Aragon and Sicily so those are no problem. Sardinia is a bit more complex, and Valencia is a can of worms right from the start unless you're excellent at the tacticals (I'm not).

The second hurdle I find are actually the Russians, Hungarians, and sometimes the Poles. They gain two points for every conquest so they will get ahead if any one of them snowballs to a large size, and because they're so far away, it can be difficult to project the power to do anything about it before they have a huge lead.

Opening
So anyway, I open the game and check my generals. I get dealt a pretty good hand, I have a bunch of acumen-4's. There are no good generals besides the king at a middling 3 stars and while the technology level is decent, the Castillians have more and better of everything.

The Pope always attacks Naples on turn 1, denying you the province and you can't really fight the Pope from turn 1. Castille will attack Valencia on turn 1. I believe the battle might be winnable there, but it's certainly too difficult to me. Your attack from Aragon to Valencia will, I think, turn it into a 3-way bridge battle between you, Castille, and the rebels.

My turn 1 builds in Sicily are a tower and a spy. The tower is obligatory and the spy shuttles to Valencia on the next turn. The small chance he has of triggering a rebellion in Valencia is probably well worth the cost. It's not like building troops in Sicily will get them anywhere and the Pope is unlikely to hit you. In Aragon, the two choices I see are either building a port and getting more ships, or building an armoury to get quality troops (chivvy knights and silver armour jinettes) in preparation for a land war with Castille. I go for the latter and leave the ship building to Sicily. For the first two decades or so, Sicily builds a tower, a shipyard, then nothing but ships and economic upgrades. An alternate strategy is to skip 6 turns of economic upgrading to get a dockyard up to get carracks. I think that'd probably be a better choice but I didn't see it, so I have no carracks and am ahead on my upgrade profits by 6 turns.

I also assign the province titles to my acumen-4's. Sicily is richer in the long run, so I give the chamberlain scroll to Sicily's governor.

Navarre
The rebel stack in Navarre is worth about 2000-3000 florins and it includes a set of chivalric knights. Bribing Navarre early is probably worth it, if only to have a second province rolling out militia sarges as soon as possible. It's definitely possible to simply attack it and siege it, though that takes longer and requires that you find the troops for it.

Sardinia
The Italians will usually attack Sardinia and take it within a 10-15 years. It takes at least a decade to get ships that far so attacking it and occupying it will be a real breakneck scramble. Bribing the place early is risky because the rebel troops there often aren't enough to hold the place down. (For such a poor island province, Sardinia is really very difficult to suppress.) I plop a spy there and sure enough, the Italians who went there got repeated rebellions. I bribed the stack for a few thousand in the late 1330's/early 1340's.

Tertiary Concerns
The northern border can potentially turn into a nightmare as the English start with a star-eyed boy in Aquitaine and the French will be strong for a couple decades before usually being overwhelmed by a gang of other computers. Given the choice, I usually side with the English/Swiss that usually end up together.

Peace with the Italians is essential. You probably can't beat their navy early. You need the sealanes (hell you need to open your sealanes) and the Italians generate income for you at Sicily anyhow. I find that as a rule of thumb, if the Italians get a good grip on Sardinia, it's a bad turn but I'd pick peace with Italy over it until the navy turns out okay.

The blurb says something about attacking the weakening Byzantines from Sicily. It might be possible to do it early, I don't know, but I sure as hell don't see a way. It does become very possible later in the game however and I did indeed manage it in my last game.

I know a lot of people like allying with the Almohads but depending on how good you are with Castille, they might become too strong. Having strong elmoheads snatch Cordoba from a weakened Castille before you've taken it is very bad.

Fighting Castille
Castille is your first major enemy and I don't see any option besides doing it early and putting your full attention to it. On the bright side, the Pope won't bother you because you're tiny and they're huge. In the course of playing, I've found that taking risks and rushing is really part of the Aragon game. If you wait too long, Castille will simply outbuild you and become all sorts of trouble and with a few well placed crusades (not necessarily even Spanish ones), the almohads won't be able to stop them for you.

There three critical provinces are Castille, Valencia, and Cordoba. The spanish generate a lot of income, so disrupting Castille can be very effective as they'll lose that province's income for the turn, even if you retreat against their counterattack the next turn. Castille is also the best way to attack Valencia since hitting it from Aragon will get you a bridge fight. Cordoba will become necessary eventually as the southern border. You will of course, also want Leon and Portugal after that to secure your domain.

As soon as I got stack that could beat the Castille garrison (with my admittedly limited tactical strength), I threw a it at Castille and started contesting it with the Spaniards every few turns. The set of Chivalric Knights I bribed off Navarre earn their keep. I also chose to attack while the Castillian siege against Valencia's rebels was still ongoing so that their garrison was tied down. Hence there wouldn't be a counterattack into Aragon, while trading over Castille protected Navarre. I also know the French and British are fighting hard up north so I can get away with a great deal. I get into an extremely evil fight in Castille (they camped a hill and I had to lure them down) but I win, sure enough. Next turn, they respond from Cordoba and Leon, driving me back into Aragon.

We continue the trading for many turns through a bunch of difficult battles against Spanish numerical and often qualitative superiority. Then, the Almohads (bless their souls) step in, launching an assault at Cordoba. They are repelled but they draw Spanish blood and leave them with no counter that could dislodge me from Castille. The next turn, the castle garrison kamikaze out at me and are killed to a man, leaving me in control of Castille. This proves to be the turning point as Castille provides me not only with tons of incomes but lots of troop facilities and offices. Money was a problem with profits dropping to 3 digits before but it jumps to 2000 with Castille in the fold. The Spanish are now on the defensive with the elmoheads getting ready to rail on them from the south.

After a few turns of building, a French crusade suddenly arrives. Next turn it launches itself at Morocco and drives the elmoheads into retreat. The turn after that, the elmos counter, and the crusade is driven back into cordoba where it would wither for many turns. The Spanish and the Almohads settle with about two and a half stacks each facing each other from Cordoba and Morocco. I have no eyes in Granada so I can't really tell what's happening.

Meanwhile, I launch an attack at Valencia from Castille and begin sieging the citadel there. A few turns later, I muster enough force to catch the Spanish king in Leon. One neat trick is that if your force is overwhelming, the computer will always pull a full retreat rather than risk their king's life stranded inside a besieged fort. Leon falls instantly, on the same turn that the siege in Valencia completes.

Early 1340's
I settle my borders and begin building up for a bunch of turns, now in control of all my homeland targets as well as Castille and Leon. The Spanish are still a military presence, with Portugal, Cordoba, and possibly Granada though the borders of Granada mean that it is unlikely to be too profitable regardless of who is holding it. The Almohads offered alliance, which I accepted, and Castille sued for peace, which I also accepted. One problem that Aragon has to worry about is that while it has to fight Spain, having the almohads take Cordoba (regardless of from who) is probably even worse than the Castillians having it, so I have to be careful not to beat up the Spaniards too much until I take it for myself without taking on the whole Elmohead empire. Meanwhile, the Swiss and the Brits have both been excommed and France is now no longer visible from Aragon or the med, although their lingering crusade is in Cordoba. The boatbridge now also extends from the coast of Valencia, to malta, which currently looks attractive. It is now 1347. (to be continued)

[Barbarossa1221]

I found it extremely hard when I tried playing as the aragonese. I did ok in the late era only because you get rich Siciliy. But all the other advice seems dynamite I might try it myself.

[Maloncanth]

(continued)

Cordoba
As any of us with any experience playing Spain or Aragon in any age, Cordoba is huge. If Spain or Aragon hold it, the Almohads at least need to defend both Granada and Morocco (and lose a valuable money province). If the Almohads hold it, it's even worse for Spain since it trades 3:1 on borders and attacking it is a river fight. If you play as Aragon, fight Spain and then Spain loses Cordoba to the Almohads (whom you may even have allied with), it's very bad.

As 1347 rolled around, I noticed Spanish strength dropping in relation to the Almohads. not surprising since I'd just rooked them good and they only had Portugal and Cordoba. The elmoes as it turned out, had Granada. I queued up some units and then picked 1349 as my attack date, unsurprisingly, to grab the point and also because the Spanish king was in Cordoba at a time. This would have forced them into full retreat had the king not moved and left me with the siege. I took a look at the Pope's age. he was pretty old and the Plague had already come, so zeal was low as well and opted to take the Excom and do a much less expensive siege of the castle. I indeed got excommed, and then finished the Spanish off at Portugal. They poor things tried retreating to nowhere. A few years later, the Pope perished as expected and things stabilized.

1350's
There's no GA points for the reconquista or anything, so I'm content sitting on Cordoba with a heavy defence, and turning my attention to the other danger that Aragon faces - all the conquerfest powers out east. 1350 passed with Aragon having a comfortable 5-point lead on the 2nd place English who furthermore lacked potential for further point gain. The conquest-heavy nations are Denmark, Russia, Poland, and Hungary. Russia and Hungary are the most dangerous by far. However, I spotted a Golden Horde boat out in the med, which handily explained why the Russians were hopelessly down on points. Denmark was asleep as usual while Poland and Hungary were doing fairly well. In any case, in preparation for them, I tech and built ships to be able to hit them. I take control of the west med out to the Ionian and making the obligatory connections and allowing me to see the Hungarian coast (important later). Greece falls to the Turks and the Byzantines vanish from my senses, although they have huge numbers of trogdorboats floating around still.

The Northern Border
I said that it could turn into a nightmare, but it was the Swiss and it came as a surprise. They were allied with me and I knew alliances break anytime in medieval, but I had a spy sitting there as well and he didn't tell me a thing. Anyhow, they arrive with an army led by an 8-star general and there were an awful lot of SAP's. I lay a pretty standard hill defence on some really steep slopes flanked by cliffs but as it turns out, an 8-star general's Swiss Armoured Pikemen can charge up some steep hills against Xbows, arbies, and still rip through Chivvy Sarges. I kid you not, they almost broke through and inflicted massive casualties before they cheesed under a storm of crossbows, arbalest bolts and javelins. Their star-eyed boy ran so i chased him down with all my horse, surrounding him, so he swore at me in Swissese and began poking tons of holes in my. He died after I went ctrl-T. The war also broke most of my alliances. The game also informed me over a few turns that I was the richest and most awesome, which may've been why.

The 1360's for me was a very good example of why keep a really good eye on your borders. I check on some of the remaining Swiss generals, averaging 4 or 5 stars. He was the Duke of Ile-de-France. Wonderful. Now I knew where the French went. I secure the borders and quickly build up army (and more ships because I was rich) as the English, who'd just broken alliance, piled at a peak, 4 stacks into Aquitaine. I stopped at 3 stacks, since the English sure as hell didn't have Swiss Armoured Pikes (thank goodness) and their star-eyed boy was gone, replaced by a 5-star urban mill and as I guessed, they ran into problems sustaining the force long before I did.

A number of things happened in the late 60's/70's. The Swiss put a ship in the water. The Swiss navy, what a pleasant thought, and threw its wreckage at my wall of carracks. The Pope, bless his holiness, attacked the Italians and then excommunicated them. I love the Pope. Then, the Italians pulled a counterattack out of somewhere and knocked the Pope out. Hungary was gaining in power and drew even on point gain with me, both at 22, though they trailed me by 7 points. I took the opportunity to shore up defences at Sardinia and Sicily because now Italy controlled Naples and they'd thrown one of their spare star-eyed boys onto Corsica. Those places often get overlooked I imagine, and while I've advocated the defensibility of Sicily before, it is, believe it or not, possible to lose it.

I then queue up troops for two turns in preparation to teleport all of them at the Hungarians just before the 1375 scoring arrives. The choices are Serbia and Croatia. Croatia is superior because Serbia was used as a Hungarian buffer against their allies the Turks. Croatia is also a homeland and would knock out more points. This was duly done. I attempt to pin Hungary with a check, but their king moves. With significant Hungarian forces in the next province over, I retreat back and wait for another opportunity. There isn't any need to run risks or expand too much anyway. I my lead on them has grown since 1375.

Two other things is that some serious disloyalty developed in Cordoba and I shuffled 3 disloyal 1-star Jinettes over to Croatia. Yes, keep disloyal generals in mind too. The other is that someone in England got upset and a civil war of some sort ensued, which was another stroke of luck. The rebels sieged the English out of Aquitaine for some turns before I seized the chance and swept in from Navarre to inch out my land border. Doing this improves the border ratio with England should they later contemplate war.

It is now 1380 and the game seems to be on track, provided heirs don't dry up. The next priorities will be to press a bit more advantage on the Hungarians, gain a border with Poland just in case, and develop some strategic depth such that even a civil war wouldn't damage the game beyond repair. At this point, knocking out the Almohads and seizing Africa out to Tunisia/Malta seems possible. There's also the Pope who still hasn't returned and will no doubt get into another war with the Italians, so Sicily and Sardinia still need to be watched. It would also be nice to conclude peace with the Swiss, although this hasn't worked so far. Though it's probably not worth slogging through all the jedi pikes, expanding into Toulouse (or is it Provence? I don't remember) is an option still.

(to be continued)

[Maloncanth]

Okay, I may as well wrap up my Late Aragon GA down as a 3-parter.

Having set the game on track, the following 25 or so turns were mainly shoring up the victory and maintaining advantage. Afterall, there's ultimately no need to win a GA game by any more than one point.


I took Austria from the Hungarians and held both Austria and Croatia. They counterattacked and thanks to my lack of tactical skill, almost won. I hold onto both Austria and Croatia for a few decades, likely to very little profit in florins. Within a turn or two of 1380 however, the Almohads attacked at Cordoba, which was well timed as I was getting read to knock them out anyhow. I queued up a few units and within another couple turns, withdrew from Austria after burning everything. I attempt to check (attack a province with the king in it with overwhelming power to force a full retreat) Hungary at Hungary, but they buy the bluff and I found a river battle. I decline and retreat to Croatia. The next turn, I teleport huge armies into Morocco. And from Morocco, out east and into Granada simultaneously. After this point, I'm autoresolving all of my battles as there's no shortage of troops. I knock out the Elmoheads within about 5 turns (the last 2 spent sieging), checking them twice before annihilating them at Tunisia.

Meanwhile, the Hungarians don't seem to want to take back Croatia, despite the fact it's empty. The Egyptians went into civil war, which was another stroke of luck and I had huge armies ready to seize the change. I take Cyrenacea and Egypt, the Italians surprisingly, teleport in and take Sinai and Palestine. The Italians have been running rampant since they defeated the Pope in the 70's. They now control all of the UK except Wessex and Ireland, the southern coast of the North Sea, including valuable Flanders, most of the stuff around Italy that could remotely be considered rightfully Italian, and now, a bit of the middle east. They continue to have more ships than I do, but on the other hand, mine are 3/3 Carracks. They briefly show a mood to fight, stacking armies at Naples and Sinai as I transitioned from Toulouse to Croatia (see below), but I can easily match them at the borders and nothing comes of it.

I've been building ships as well, putting boats into the Baltic and the Black Sea, which are both valuable with 3-4 ports each. Climbing for 100k florins at about 5k a turn, which isn't bad for a Late game starting as Aragon. Expanding into the northern waters gives me the border with Poland. However, the Poles are out of the game, as are most of the others besides Italy and Hungary.

Once I've settled the border at Egypt, I gather all my spare armies not attending borders, coming to about five stacks. I launch 4 at the Swiss 3 in order to ensure that they'll fight. I press autoresolve since my objective here isn't victory so much as breaking the back of the Swiss military. A bloody report is given me, I win with both sides taking roughly 1850 casualties but it's a decisive strategic victory for Aragon. The back of the Swiss armies is broken and Aragon will soon be rolling out Lancers. Aragon's ability to replace the losses vastly outmatches the Swiss, who while large and competitive, now border many different states with very poor defense lines. The Pope warns me so I assault the castle next turn. Again, losses have little bearing. I now hold the Aquitaine-Toulouse Line and intend to sit out the game on it.

Looking at the GA points, Hungary remains clearly in the lead. Italy has the seas if it wants to fight, but trading 3:1 for conquest points, it's unlikely to overtake me even if I lost every battle against them. Thus, I return my attention to Hungary, rebuilding the port at Croatia (which the Hungarians simply wouldn't take back for some reason) and shipping armies there. The next turn, I win Hungary itself bloodlessly, and being sieging its citadel with 3 partial stacks. With a river battle against the largest Hungarian force, I'm unlikely ever to lose the province, and without the high point value of their primary homeland, the Hungarians are even further behind. It's now very unlikely they could make up the difference in the 2 scoring dates that still remain.

It's 1406, but the game is more or less mine. From here on out, playing Aragon shouldn't be much different than playing Spain, or perhaps easier, since besides homelands, Aragon has no other GA responsibilities. I'll certainly report if anything interesting happens, but I think we're done. :)

[Maloncanth]

Oh whoops, I meant controlled Austria and Croatia for a few years, not decades.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the Pope came back in 1392 or 1393. A war didn't result however. The Pope just warped into Rome and sat there with 4 stacks of awesome.

[Unforgivable-Fenrir]

I tried playing Argonese on expert but got attack by the english and spanish all at once, so there went my two provinces in the west. Then i tried taking the rest of lower Italy, but if things couldn't get any worse the pope decide that he like my land and took it. I didn't know that the pope would take your lands, i thought he would only take rebels and lead crusades to the east.

[Craterus]

I'm fairly new to MTW, but I've been playing an Aragonese campaign, on and off, for some time now.

I'm playing Early and whatever the mode that ISN'T Glorious Achievements.

I started by bribing El Cid (and Valencia), and taking Navarre. Instead of starting a war against my fellow Catholics the Spanish, I decided to tech up and prepare to take Cordoba. Spain beat me to it though and I was now boxed in by Catholics.

Elsewhere, the French kicked the English off of the continent, but were excommed in doing so. Whilst they were excommed, I took the opportunity to add Aquitaine to my empire. The French didn't like this and attempted to take it back with three considerable armies on three consecutive turns. My army held out but was wearing thin. On the fourth turn, the French king accepted my offer of alliance/ceasefire.

The Hungarians, Turks and HRE have been eliminated. The Sicilians attacked the Pope in Naples and were excommed.

I continued to tech up in my little empire, but I got bored pretty quickly. I didn't want to upset the Pope by attacking the Spanish/Italians/French so I sailed to Ireland and took that rebel province. From there, I launched a two-pronged assault on the English. Taking Scotland and Northumbria in one turn certainly shocked them. Most of my former allies, including the Pope, stuck with me in this conflict. The Spanish, however, took the opportunity to hit hard on my home provinces while I was away. In this second Catholic v Catholic war, the Pope and many of my other allies deserted me.

In Mercia, the English king has amassed a formidable archer-heavy, cav-heavy army to take back Northumbria. On the cav front, 1 King and 4 Prince's worth of Royal Knights. Missile, about 8 units of archers. And they've got a few Fyrdmen and Highland Clansmen for infantry.

It's not a particularly clever strategy (with hindsight), but it's been fun so far. Any tips on my situation would be appreciated. Thanks!