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Thread: A Beginners Guide to Medieval: Total War

  1. #61

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    I can answer those questions WesW, but unfortunately some of the answers aren't to good and I've got to be quick, there's a good program on at 9:00PM.

    1)Absolutely positive. This feature was in Shogun, but I overlooked it for years - I only found it because of something I read about MTW (I think it may have been in the official guide). I have observed it on many, many occasions, to see for your self set up a simple custom game of 1 unit per side (so you can watch closely). When the battle begins single click on your enemy and watch your unit closely. They will walk most of the way and then when they get close you will hear a war horn and they will all begin to charge. This is very easy to see on one of the flat steppes maps. If you order the unit to run (double click) you will still see the animation and speed change when the horn sounds, although it is harder to spot. Try using some feudal MAA, when they charge they raise their sword above their head. The charge is started when the unit is close to it's target, that's why units sometimes charge immediately when you click on an enemy, once the horn sounds the charge has begun. Also why else would each unit have a walk/run/charge set of speed stats if they only ever walked and charged?

    2)Spears in forests is awkward. Most posts I have seen, along with the guide and a post from CA last year all state that the rank bonus is missing in trees. Personal experience suggests the something similar; I've had sergeants loose very badly to weak cavalry, which they usually beat when they are on open ground. The units were in the appropriate ranks; orders etc and they met the cavalry face on. They were massacred, each and every time. I think that the rank bonus doesn't apply as a whole (i.e. the whole unit has it or the whole unit doesn't), rather I think it applies to individual men, so it is possible for some men to keep the bonus in trees while others in the same formation loose it. This is a bit too advanced to put in a beginners guide, so I shortened it to keep spears out of trees, which is good advice when you consider that most of the unit looses the bonus. Common sense also suggests to me that the spearmen couldn't hold their formation properly in a forest and TW is quite logical, but that's not proof in itself.

    3)I got that part about the generals giving different kinds of valour from several posts made here by respected members of the community. Unfortunately it was months ago and I can't remember who they were (if I did I would credit them), and I can't find the topic either. This does seem quite reasonable because giving a morale bonus with generals valour would make the units very hard to control if they had several points of valour of their own. If someone can offer proof either way or remember the threads this first appeared in I would be grateful.

    4)I always thought that sounded odd but it was common wisdom on both these forums and the official ones, so I used it because I'd not heard of DOC's theory. Can you point me to the thread with his evidence?

    Mary - thanks I've already started the unit guide (just finished the Shogun section), after that's done I will probably write Frog Tzu, or the tactics guide for those not in the know. I didn't want to go full bore with the tactics because there seemed to be little interest, also the guide would keep referring to the unit guide which I am now writing separately instead of combining the two.

    Divine Wind - thanks to you to , I'm honoured that you think me worthy of HoF However that's half a year away, and everyone will have forgotten this by then.

    EDIT: Made a few parts clearer. The program was rather amusing, the first vaguely interesting program in weeks. You know, with the three posts above this one having the same avatar it's like Attack of the Clones



    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  2. #62
    Creator of the Medmod for M:TW Member WesW's Avatar
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    Thanks for the explanations. I don't remember which thread contained the post regarding the Military Academy. It may have been one of my mod threads, or it could have been one that DOC started around that time. I do know it was 2 or 3 months ago.
    Wes Whitaker's Total Modification site:

  3. #63
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
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    This is the best untill now. Quite complex.


  4. #64

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    Now two of the new pictures are up Once again Inigo Montoya and TosaInu deserve a pat on the head for their hard work

    Current status of my new guide:
    Index and intro=complete.
    Shogun section=complete (pending more user comments).
    MTW section=Just beginning the spearmen.
    Overall status=1/5th done Things are going slowly because I'm in the middle of a heat wave. I can only have the PC on for an hour or so at the time before the cooling gets pushed (hey, its above running temerature before I even turn it on) and I'm not at my best in this heat. Being a frog I prefer the cool, damp weather of the winter (yes, this is true. Go January ). When things cool down it will get done quite quickly.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  5. #65
    Monkeyboy Member rafiki's Avatar
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    Hi Frogbeastegg

    Will your unit guide be made in different versions? E.g one solely meant for Medieval and one solely for Shogun? I play MTW, but not STW, so the STW-stuff is a bit wasted on people like me

    Also, have you thought of making your guide(s) available as pdf's? The content is definately of printable quality

    Regards,
    Rafiki

  6. #66

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    So far my unit guide is an all in one deal, there is a chapter covering Shoguns units (about 13 pages so far), a chapter coving the original medieval units (work in progress) and a third chapter covering the Viking Invasion units. The real bulk of the guide covers MTW but I included Shogun for those people that bought the budget edition recently, the Shogun section will be easy to skip, you'll just need to scroll down until you hit the large, bold Medieval: Total War section heading. If the guide gets so long I can’t post it all in one go I’ll probably split it by game so MTW will be separate then. When Rome comes out I may add that in or produce a separate companion guide to keep with the 'Complete guide to Total War Units' theme, after all it won't be complete if I leave a TW out.

    I don't know how to produce a pdf but you can copy and paste the text into MS Word and get a printable version (31 pages long) although you won't get the pictures. You could right click on the pictures, save them and them print them separately for reference while reading the guide if you wanted. There is the possibility that this guide will be turned into a web page (with the help of some other patrons, I don't know much HTML) which will be more printer friendly, but this is far from certain and would take a while to do anyway.

    I hope that helps
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  7. #67
    Monkeyboy Member rafiki's Avatar
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    frogbeastegg,

    If you need help in turning the guide into an HTML-thingy, I'd be happy to help. I can also host it if you like.

    I was originally thinking of making a guide myself, but gave up when I discovered yours, knowing that to make something even close to that was beyond my capabilities for now If I can help in making it more accessible, I'd be privileged to do so.

    Regards,
    Rafiki

  8. #68

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    Thanks for the offer rafiki. This guides still got a little bit of updating to do (two new pictures, some final error checking etc) but when that's done I might accept the various offers to transform this into HTML. TosaInu suggested that the org may be able to host a HTML version, but I'm not sure if that offer's still available (probably but don't count your chickens before they're hatched and all that).

    Anyway if the guide does go HTML you'd probably be working with Inigo Montoya (the picture editor and first HTML volunteer), I don't know whether that's possible (split work loads aren't always doable, but I don't know much about website construction) but I'll PM him and tell him about your offer.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  9. #69
    Member Member Dirk's Avatar
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    Hey...wonderfull
    I was only wondering why I could not find anything on the map editor. You have been so utterly thorough that it surpried me you have not included the editor with all it's tricks.

    Dirk

  10. #70

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    There are two reasons why I didn't do anything on the editor:
    1)The guide is intended to help beginners learn to play the game.
    2)I've never used the editor

    If the editor is important someone could submit a ready written bit on it which I can copy and paste into the guide with full credit being given, Cheetah did this for the multiplayer section and there are a few other reader contributions scattered throughout the guide. Otherwise it will have to stay missing I'm afraid.

    Glad you liked the guide
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  11. #71

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    rafiki your offer to help has been accepted. You should have got a Private Message on the subject but the messenger was acting up so you'll either get three messages or no messages at all.

    Basically you should contact Inigo Montoya by PM if you still want to help, he's in charge of the HTML version of the guide and he'll be able to tell you whats going on. You can find a post by Inigo here, if you don't know how to use the orgs PM system just click on the little postcard symbol at the bottom of Inigo's post, if you aren't sure which icon you need leave your cursor above it a label will appear.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  12. #72
    Monkeyboy Member rafiki's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Sorry frogbeastegg, but from I can read on the Help Page, I don't have access to PMs yet (since I am but a lowly junior patron ).

    Can you (or perhaps Inigo) send me a mail at rafiki@osc.no; then we can take it from there?

    Regards,
    Rafiki

  13. #73

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    Of course I forgot about that restriction Anyway I've sent a message to Inigo asking him to email you when he can so you should hear something soon. Thanks
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  14. #74

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    WesW if you are still reading this I found something interesting on discipline while I was looking for DOC's post (still haven't found it), I think this is the root of the idea that the military academy gives discipline to non disciplined units.

    The post is in a few questions and it's the first post there by eat cold steel. Here a quote:
    "> Military Academy?
    It gives discipline +1"

    That's all he says but the question he was answering was on the purpose of the academy. It's a little cryptic but it does confirm that the academy does something to discipline. I think I'll leave the guide entry alone unless I can find something conclusive, this is all getting rather confusing
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  15. #75

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    Wonderful posting Miss Frogbeastegg. I have been playing Total War since STW came out and thought I knew almost everything but some of the information knocked me out.
    Thanks.

  16. #76
    Sheriff Member FesterShinetop's Avatar
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    Wow, very very nice Great job and well written

    Don't know if this helps but when I started to play I found it very easy to play as the Danes. That is also a very easy way to start this game with as you only have 1 province to run. The bigger factions can be a bit overwhelming to start with sometimes.


    "You have the insanity... of a manatee."

  17. #77

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    Well... perhaps have all units a value for discipline...

    disciplined would mean +5 or so.

    those without probably have less, and all can get +1 discipline.

    It might be like "strong" or "excellent charge", a name for a value of XX.

  18. #78
    Amir of the office desk Member Cebei's Avatar
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    I just wanna ask something about missile units. Even if its longbowmen firing at peasants or nizaris firing at hobilars, missile units bring very little number of men down. Is there a patch for that or is it deemed realistic? The same problem is there in STW too.. And it is better not to produce any gunpowder infantry as they simply cant kill anyone and create underbellies in your defence\offense equilibrium
    When the game ends, peon and king go into the same box.

  19. #79

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    Apache - Thanks, I'll include that in a future update along with the new pictures Inigo is still working on. It seems a little crazy to update this monster twice with just one or two words when I can update it once with one or two sentences. The whole thing is so long now that it's hard to edit.

    Cebei - I'm including a lengthy section on these two topics in my next guide, it's good to know that I'm on target with the info I'm including. The poor accuracy of missile units is a feature of the game not a bug. It's not exactly deemed realistic either and many players are unhappy with it (although some like it and some don't really care either way). The problem is caused mostly by the fact that missile units cannot lead their targets so if the target is moving they are at very little risk unless they are moving towards a missile unit that shoots in a straight line (e.g. crossbows) as they will walk right into the oncoming missiles instead of having them fly over their heads. The best solutions that don’t require modding the game are:
    *Don't shoot at moving units.
    *If you have to shoot at a moving unit try to make it a slow one. There is no point in wasting missiles on charging cavalry, as you will be lucky to kill one man out of the entire unit.
    *Try to use missile units that fire in a straight line instead of an arc (like crossbows and arbalesters) as they are less affected by moving targets and possess better accuracy in the first place.

    Gunpowder units are an interesting problem - quite simply they are mostly crap and a waste of space The only one I can recommend is the Catholic hand gunner as they make very good swordsmen with the advantage of firing a volley at close range into the enemy before charging. I've included a few good strategies for those who are determined to use MTW's gunpowder units in my next guide, alas it is a little too long to cut and paste here. I'll give you a cut down version of the best tip though, pin an enemy unit with some junk troops (something you don't care about like regular spearmen) and run a unit of guns around the enemy unit before firing a volley at close range into their rear. If you set your guns up in three ranks they will fire much faster and you should cause some damage, just not a large amount.

    If you want to read my more in-depth stuff the next guide will be done in about a week and a half, it is 70% done (and 43 pages in Microsoft word, it's already nearly hit the post limit which makes it longer than this guide already ) and will be proof read before it is posted so it should be much better than this one. I can promise you that you will find better answers to these questions in it (it also covers Shogun: Total War).

    If you want to mod the game to make missiles slightly better while keeping them balanced either take a peek in the dungeon or post a topic here in the Entrance Hall and one of our experts will help you.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  20. #80
    Amir of the office desk Member Cebei's Avatar
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    Thanks so much frogbeastegg..

    I guess I will want to mod the game; I usually play at expert level to improve myself (so perhaps it is the difficulty level). As an example, remember Lord of the Rings first movie? The battle scene, at the beginning of the movie? Elven archers' salvo eliminates the first line of charging orcs. Or as a second example Warrior Kings game; and archer efficiency in that game?

    I am not comparing the god like MTW to any of these but you can get real pissed when two groups of arbalests can only bring 15 Byzantine infantry (standing and drinking tea)
    When the game ends, peon and king go into the same box.

  21. #81

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    once again... i tried to click the link regarding mod for better targeting for missile unit but nothing happened.. can someone help me ???
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  22. #82
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Hello and welcome LestaT.

    Thanks for pointing out the broken link. I've contacted froggy, asking her to fix the link.
    This space intentionally left blank

  23. #83

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    OK problem found, the topic was in the dungeon which has been reorganised so the link doesn't work. Sadly I can't find the topic I was linking to so I will write an appendix with instructions for basic projectile_stats modding and some suggested values to change the defaults to. I'll get to work on it this afternoon and should be done sometime this evening (UK time), I shall also edit the remaining two pictures into something smaller since I haven't heard from Inigo Montoya in a while and the dodgy formating is annoying me I've tested all the other links in the guide and they are still working.

    LestaT - you say once again, have you posted about this before? If so I am very sorry for missing you, I've been rather busy lately (I'm trying to do too much at once, and I'm having to slow the next guide down and put my next story on the backburner for a while because of it) so I haven't been paying this guide enough attention. Thanks for pointing the problem out
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  24. #84

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    First half of the update done.
    -I've shrunk the pictures which has fixed the format at long last
    -I've added Apache's suggestion about Denmark and I've added him to the credits.
    -I've updated Bushface's advert in the resources section.
    -I've tweaked a few other things you will never notice like typing.

    Still to do:
    -Remove the dud link.
    -Add an appendix with modding tips.
    -Finish tidying the format to get rid of the new formatting errors updating always adds.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  25. #85
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Froggy

    If you ever need any help with taking/adding/modifying screenshots or hosting anything. You can count on me to help. Just gimme a shout and I'll be there.

    If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.

    http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/__shak

  26. #86

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    And that's the other half of the update I have
    - Added in an appendix covering editing of the projectilestats file.
    - Removed the broken link to the how to mod the projectilestats file and replaced it with a pointer to the appendix.
    - Tidied up the formatting some more to get rid of the weird spacing that appears every time I update the guide.
    - Tweaked the spelling and grammar some more - the guide is beginning to look somewhat professional

    You know somehow this guide seem so short now - my unit guide is already 43 pages long and it's only half done This one is now 33 pages.

    SeljukSinan - Thank you You've got a good sense of timing you know, I've send you a PM containing details of a secret project.....
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  27. #87

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    Extracted from the Chronicles of Frogbeastegg, book II - The Beginner's Guide to Total War.

    ....and so the last two pictures were added to the guide and the people were glad. And frogbeastegg smiled and was happy for she no longer had mismatching pictures spoiling the scheme. There was much rejoicing in the land of org.

    Keep your eyes peeled for the announcement of my secret project. I shall give you some clues
    *It's not the unit guide.
    *It is something people have been asking for.
    *It is very long, just like everything I type.
    *It is not an elephant
    *It will be downloadable.

    If anyone can guess what it is before the secret is revealed they will win a prize
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  28. #88
    The Breath of God Member Divine Wind's Avatar
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    Are you sure its not an elephant?
    "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    -Sun Tzu, the Art of War




  29. #89
    Sheriff Member FesterShinetop's Avatar
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    FInally, your lifestory

    I guessed it Now what do I win???


    "You have the insanity... of a manatee."

  30. #90
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    LOL
    If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.

    http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/__shak

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