multiplayer interface = horrible

[Navaros]

why does the Multiplayer interface of VI suck so much?

here are the things that i REALLY hate which i'm sure CA could EASILY fix with a simple, small patch:

1. you can't choose your team til ALL PLAYERS are in the game. that's nonsense. i don't like having to stare at the screen constantly until the game is full, only then to have to click READY. the entire step of having to click READY in this situation is a wasteful and needless one that should be removed outright. i want to be able to choose my army AS SOON AS I ENTER THE GAME, that way i can go watch TV or whatever til the game is full and everyone else has chosen their army and is ready to start - without me having to stare at my monitor constantly for no good reason at all; as i do with the current dumb setup

2. you can't GO BACK one step if a player drops during army selection - MAJOR WTF? you should NOT have to re-host in this situation - that's idiotic. yet in the current setup, you MUST re-host

3. why can't the host set TIME LIMITS for ARMY SELECTION and TROOP DEPLOYMENT. i really do not ENJOY having to wait 15 minutes for everyone to select their army, then another 15 minutes for everyone to deploy. that is total BS - there NEEDS to be host-selected time limits in place for these things. this is ESPECIALLY ANNOYING since it usually takes about 30 minutes just to get a full 8-player game from the time the host offers one.


all these changes are simple common sense that would make Total War MP a million times more fun and less aggravating to play - so what's stopping CA from implementing them, exactly?

[Gregoshi]

Well, the going theory is that the CA staff is a bunch sadistic freaks that get their jollies from the screams of frustration in the lobby and in TW forums. I'm sure they are all high-fiving each other after reading your post.




As for selection and deployment, everyone works at their own pace. Some are fast or use standard armies every game. Others are slow and/or meticulous spending every florin with great care. Army selection and deployment can often spell the difference between victory and defeat and not too many are crazy about that defeat option.

Think about a typical RTS like Starcraft/Warcraft, where instead of starting with nothing and building up your base/armies over the course of the game, you had to purchase all your buildings and units before the game started and then place those bases/armies on the map before the game began. I think they would take just as long to get started as the TW games if that were the case.

BTW, I think you'll find most people agree that the online interface does need quite a bit of work.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] ]Well, the going theory is that the CA staff is a bunch sadistic freaks that get their jollies from the screams of frustration in the lobby and in TW forums. I'm sure they are all high-fiving each other after reading your post.

ROTFLMAO

I play a lot of MP and I must agree that there are many, many things that CA and GS could/should fix. But I usually only spend 3-5 minutes waiting for players once a game is hosted, and another 3-5 minutes during army selection. While waiting I usually engage in thrilling conversation (AKA XSBS) with my mates, or make new friends (and occasionally enemies).

I used to carpool with a buddy to go skiing. I was a newbie and he was an expert-expert. Every morning we would arrive at the ski resort and I would get ready, then spend 15-30 minutes waiting for my friend, because he was very popular and had to chat with almost everybody, so it took him forever to get ready to ski.

One day I complained to him that I was tired of waiting for him every morning, and that he should hurry up. He calmy replied that while I waited 15 minutes for him in the morning, he waited ALL DAY LONG for me (since I was much slower than he on the slopes).

I think that spending a little extra time setting up can really help once the game starts.

ichi

[Navaros]

i can agree that choosing armies/deploying in Total War is a time-consuming process and give some leeway due to the nature of the game.

however, in all the games i've played so far people have always been taken this concept to the EXTREME - which is VERY frustrating.

btw i am 100% convinced that the LOUD GONG just before a the map is loaded in MP is to WAKE EVERYONE WHO HAS FALLEN ASLEEP UP

waiting around in Total War MP = magic-cureall for insomnia

[Togakure]

If it's so simple to fix, then why don't YOU design a solution and submit it to CA? If you knew anything about systems design in an open multi-user environment, then you would know why the things you hate are the way they are. Sure there is room for improvement--there always is, but so many still play (and have FUN) regardless of the minor annoyances. If you hate it so much, why don't you (do us all a favor and) quit?

Maybe your armies wouldn't rout so fast and you wouldn't lose so often if you spent more energy studying the game and focusing on intelligent practice, instead of wasting your energy on so much expressed negativity and hatred here. Maybe it would help to see past your own preconceived notions and realize that TW games are indeed superior to most other pc-based tactical battlefield games.

Maybe I wouldn't get so annoyed if I didn't have to read your extraordinarily negative posts here. Hmm, come to think of it, I don't have to, and now I won't--when I see your name I'll know to look elsewhere. But it sure does feel good to express MY annoyance for a change. Do be careful, I wouldn't want you to burst a blood vessel in your brain from all that anger (sic).

GAH

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ April 18 2004,20:08)]why does the Multiplayer interface of VI suck so much?

here are the things that i REALLY hate which i'm sure CA could EASILY fix with a simple, small patch:

1. you can't choose your team til ALL PLAYERS are in the game. that's nonsense. i don't like having to stare at the screen constantly until the game is full, only then to have to click "READY". the entire step of having to click "READY" in this situation is a wasteful and needless one that should be removed outright. i want to be able to choose my army AS SOON AS I ENTER THE GAME, that way i can go watch TV or whatever til the game is full and everyone else has chosen their army and is ready to start - without me having to stare at my monitor constantly for no good reason at all; as i do with the current dumb setup

2. you can't GO BACK one step if a player drops during army selection - MAJOR WTF? you should NOT have to re-host in this situation - that's idiotic. yet in the current setup, you MUST re-host

3. why can't the host set TIME LIMITS for ARMY SELECTION and TROOP DEPLOYMENT. i really do not "ENJOY" having to wait 15 minutes for everyone to select their army, then another 15 minutes for everyone to deploy. that is total BS - there NEEDS to be host-selected time limits in place for these things. this is ESPECIALLY ANNOYING since it usually takes about 30 minutes just to get a full 8-player game from the time the host offers one.


all these changes are simple common sense that would make Total War MP a million times more fun and less aggravating to play - so what's stopping CA from implementing them, exactly?

1) If the florin allocation were changed to be per player, you could purchase your army before other players had joined, but I wouldn't do that because I want to know who is in the game and what factions they are using, i.e. "know your enemy". One thing I don't like is a 4v4 that turns into a 3v3 with extra florins. I usually ask players to spend the original intended amount when that happens so that I don't have to waste time rehosting at lower florins.

2) If someone drops during army selection, you don't have to rehost. You do just go back one step to the screen where you are waiting for players to join. You do have to pick your army again, but that goes fast because you already know what you want. If someone drops during deploy, you have the option of continuing the battle, and one player on the other team can withdraw to make it fair.

3) I don't see how you could have a time limit for army selection. That would ruin the game with players possibly sent to battle without all their units. You could say the same for deployment time. Sometimes a player is taking a long time because of an interruption at home. Starting a battle without the player being at his computer isn't such a great idea. I'd rather wait until everyone is ready than have the battle ruined.

CA has already announced that they consider the game finished and there won't be anymore patches to mtw/vi.

It's true that a 4v4 can take 30 minutes to get started, but it doesn't always take that long. I would say an average time is more like 15 minutes. I have my stereo system set up at my computer, and combine listening to music with playing the game as well as conversing with other players. In anycase, I do agree that it's a big time investment to play this game online. I don't go online to play unless I've got at least one hour free. You have to decide if it's worth your time to play it.

[Chimpyang]

The setup and play bits are just mior annoyances that I get used to, like Puzz I have my audio system set up and i play whatever song i feel in the mood for. I have some set unit selection written down for different types of map and no of players so i can get an army ready ASAP. But in order for me to do this i have had to spend lots of time in the unit selection screen to perfect the unit choices. I dont mind careful people, the game sort of suits them with all the flanking and ambushes involved in MP. (In one recent battle my opponent reeled me around sop that he could get me from behind using 2 units of Chiv Kinghts he had hid during deployment.) Also with Togakure's point that TW is more complex than most of the other games out there (except the HoI series i think) and it's worth spending a little more time and patience (from all players) to get everything perfect for the perfect victory. As well as those points i would also like to point out that the extremely long Pav battles during the game (esp some 4v4's) are probably more boring (and imho pointless as both sides usually end up with basically none left) than the unit selection screens (at least you can chat to clan mates and other friends you might have on the foyer.)

[Dionysus9]

Wow Ojo, rare to see you get your dander up. You must feel pretty strongly about this topic. I disagree that you have to offer practical solutions in order to criticise. I can watch golf on tv and say "that was an awful shot and a lousy swing," even if I couldn't do any better.

I personally don't mind waiting a little bit for a good game, but the interface is awful and we've seen little if any improvement since Shogun was released years and years ago.

I suppose my criticism of the interface has more to do with in game commands (such as all these "hidden" alt right click type commands) and other in game issues, but deployment and pre-deployment problems do abound.

Preselected armies, per player (not team) florin allocation, pre-set custom deployments, etc. would be a huge plus--but we've been begging for those for years to no avail.

One of my pet peaves is in the host setup screen--you can't tab between the entries (def. florins, att. florins), you have to manipulate the mouse to navigate in the host setup screen...which gets annoying after doing it ten times a day every day for 3 years. But anyway...I'm still here, so I guess I can handle it. Too bad so few have stuck around.

[edited to fix italics]

[KyodaiSteeleye]

I personally have no problem with the pre-battle screens.

(1)If you could spend your florins and then bugger off until everyone else had come into the game and chosen theirs, when would you know when to come back? Wouldn't the game then be waiting for you to come back and deploy?

(2)As response above, you do not have to rehost, although choosing an army again is a faff - maybe this could be rectified in RTW.

(3) Time limits just disadvantage careful or new players - i have just-about set armies for different factions at different florin levels, which means i can generally choose very quickly, but if i play a different faction from normal, or a different florin level, it will take me longer to choose. You can always make sarcastic comments to those players taking their time if it makes you feel better.

RE: in game controls - i agree some of these aren't intuitive - proved by the amount of MP players who are still finding out about groups and formations months (years) after they started playing. I've always thought that being able to tell a unit to form up into a set no. of ranks by hitting no.keys 1-6 would be sooo much easier than having to mess-around with alt-left-drag thingummy.

[Togakure]

As I see it, the annoyances experienced in the foyer when getting a game going are more the "fault" of players and not the interface. Games take a while to fill, players join and then drop out, players who lack experience or don't do their homework, or who tend to socialize a lot, take a long time to choose armies and deploy effectively. How could the interface be improved to better this situation? Better to ask: what can players do to improve it ... .

***

It was the manner in which the criticism was offered that got my dander up Bacchus, not the criticism itself. The same malevolence was present in other threads, and laced with WTF's, BS, suck, gay-this and gay-that, etc. Such consistent lack of respect gets on my nerves. The mods and admins here might as well allow these acronyms to be spelled out--I don't think anyone here has any problem interpreting them. And in the same vein, why not allow the open use of words like n*gger, sp*ck, k*ke, g*ok, w*p, j*p, ch*nk, and sandn*gger et. al. while we're at it ... .

We shouldn't need such restrictions--most people possess the consideration and self-control to avoid such social disgraces. But alas, so often today we find ourselves having to limit freedoms because of the "lowest common denominator." Some will retort: just ignore it m8. It is my opinion that ignoring such behavior contributes to its perpetuation and indirectly exacerbates the problem.

In some circles it is often considered contemptible to criticize a thing publically when one has limited understanding about, and experience with, it. In these circles, it is usually considered ignorant and disrespectful because the person criticizing is not considered qualified to judge in the minds of those who are. I am reminded of a first-term college art student getting blasted by an instructor for venomously criticizing Van Gogh, when his experience with art in comparison was like that of a babe's experience in life compared to a grandfather's. In today's modern youth circles however, such consideration and respect has been sorely lacking for several generations--generally speaking. On rare occasions like last night, I allow my temper to get the better of me and post before temperance kicks in, and I become little better than the culprits.

[Dionysus9]

point taken.
*bows*

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (TogakureOjonin @ April 19 2004,14:59)]In some circles it is often considered contemptible to criticize a thing publically when one has limited understanding about, and experience with, it. In these circles, it is usually considered ignorant and disrespectful because the person criticizing is not considered qualified to judge in the minds of those who are.

That's interesting since that very reason was used by some veteran players to try and stop me from commenting about the gameplay.

[Togakure]

*bows back* to Dionysus9.

Player-defined armies and deployments that could be saved and re-used would be a WONDERFUL improvement indeed, and would speed up games significantly. I would think that this would be rather easy to implement on the client side (end-user's PC) from a programming standpoint (in case folks wonder about my qualifications to comment on this--I programmed for over a decade professionally and last occupied the position of Enterprise IT Architect for a department of 13,000 California government employees). Was this suggested to CA before the release of MTW and the latest patch? Is it being considered for RTW?

***

They though YOU had limited experience with gameplay, Puzz?? Hmm ... well, I think perhaps they were a bit jaded--you seem to understand gameplay quite well, and the game's inner workings better than most. I've noticed also that you are explicit in your point of view, you focus on the issue at hand, and offer viable alternatives. And most important--you are courteous and respectful when you express you opinions.

My understanding of the situation of which you speak is that some did not leave here of their own volition, but were prohibited from participation because of consistent poor behavior on the forums and refusal to capitulate in the face of (just, imo) consequences. Others who sympathized with their point of view left for reasons of "loyalty." I doubt that many, if any, left because you chose to express contrary opinions.

[LadyAnn]

all three laments could be fixed with the simple: load army from a file thing. And save army to a file. So simple, so easy. And it's actually will help online campaign design.

So, here is my wish (just reiterate the community wishes for age):

1. Save army selection to a file; Custom battle may save the army for you. We can provide tools such as our FF's army builder tool (somewhat widely distributed in the community) which could save the selected army.

2. Load army selection from a chosen text file. The format of the text file is simply 16 lines one per unit, a column for unit type, columns for valor/weapon/armor upgrade. A checksum and amount of florin spent is included. You can chose among several selections, same way as you chose maps when host.

3. Smaller fonts and decoration, lol. The chat window is so small when a circle of friends are around you, are are drown of traffic. Anything to facilitate flirting...

Annie

[Navaros]

@toga guy: i am a pessimist who sees the world with a negative outlook. i am also very blunt and brash. these characteristics in and of themselves are not something that need to offend you, but if they do then that's too bad because there is not anything i can do about that. it's like the guy in Star Wars IV who tells Luke in the bar: "I don't like your face" and all Luke can do is say "I'm sorry". he can't change his face. same deal here

as for comparing internet slang swear word abbreviations with racial slurs; that argument is nothing short of ludicrous and does not merit any sort of response other than: simply ridiculous.

about me "fixing the problem myself"; not my job. it's CA's job, and they can and SHOULD fix it. i am not a programmer, and even if i was i don't have access to the source code which i would need to fix the prob. i put the blame for these problems squarely: [A]where it belongs; and [B] on those capable of fixing it.

saying i shouldn't be so negative about the game: i disagree. you see, i've seen this game get an average review from professional critics in the upwards of 90%. a game which gets a score that high should NOT have all of the many issues i've listed in various threads/posts on this site. i feel mislead that Total War VI is nowhere near as polished or "great" of a game as the critics/fanboys would have a new customer believe.

now back on topic:

i didn't know the Florins was not allocated per player. seems very dumb to me that it's not.

about saying "some people take longer than others to setup" - i agree with that, however that does NOT mean that those people should be allowed to hold up every one else for RIDICULOUS amounts of time. there should be time limits. they don't have to be "short" time limits - but REASONABLE time limits. it's like if an elderly person is getting on a bus you're on - and you're willing to wait the extra time it takes her to get on. now if that same elderly person has been trying to get on the bus for 10 minutes of your time and is STILL not on; i guarantee that 99% of more of you here would be majorally ticked off at the elderly person and screaming at the bus driver to just get on with it. this allegory can be directly applied to a time limit principle in Total War.

furthermore, players would be able to SEE the specificied time limits before joining a game and hence could CHOOSE NOT TO JOIN ONE with a time limit that was too short for them.

[Sulla]

dude,

I agree there should be some fixes in the lobby (Points made by Anniep). BUT and this has been said b4, instead of ravenging about, try doing something constructive. If I host a game, I will patiently w8 for every player to select its army. Ill take the time to:
A - make myself another coffee (or a rum cola)
B - friendly Chat with my m8's inside or outside the game
C - Consider various armys and setups. Will I try something new, or will I get an army I know works.
D - Smoke a cigarette ( )
E - After all that, ill think of a way to pound someone like you, swearing and nagging etc, into the ground and make your army follow your general in about 10 minutes, so I can enjoy another game that day

Then during the setup fase I would..

A - Deploy my army in the best possible way
B - Look for ways to ambush people
C - Look who is in front of me, and where the biggest threat will be
D - Make another coffee (coffee junkie yep yep)
E - Friendly chat with my teamm8's, and see if they need help

Then when game starts, Im fully concentrated. When all goes well, and I see the enemy routing, I know why I luv this game. If I see my own army routing, I know Ill have to try something else and I still luv this game.

You dont have to do all of the above offcourse, but if you dont want to shorten your live (heartdisease, Stress etc). I would suggest the following:
A - appreciate the game the way it is (next close to brilliant and highly addictive and rewarding)
B - Find another game

As I posted before the online community of Total War is one of mostly more mature players. They enjoy the game in there own pace, and will kick your butt, just because they actually think before they strike.

If you dont agree with me, find me in the lobby sometime and ill prove you wrong (Kenchi_Sulla is my name)

One last note: I would classify your post as letting of steam. However this is the 2nd post Iv seen of you. The first was about getting help etc I believe? Well, m8, you wont be getting help from a vet with this attitude. Mark my words.

Sulla

[Navaros]

my posts always tend to have a negative tone since i'm a pessimist. i am not trying or intending to agitate anyone with that tone, it's "just my way".

about "finding another game"; the problem there is that i paid good money out of my pocket for Total War based on almost unanimous critical acclaim and so far it seems that those critics were mostly out-to-lunch. IMO Total War deserves a score of no more than 75%. certainly not the over-90%'s it's gotten.

until i get my money's worth out of the game and/or am reimbursed by someone for the purchase price of the game - then i intend to keep playing it until i have gotten my money's worth. if i must seek advice/complain during that time; well then that's a necessary part of getting my money's worth.

i too like to think before i strike but it doesn't take 15-20 minutes worth of "thinking" for every single step in the Total War MP process. Total War is really not that deep of a game so that it requires thinking for THAT LONG. which is to say, as long as you have the basic array of unit-types, it won't really make much difference if you take "Sword Unit Type A" instead of "Sword Unit Type B"; therefore to spend excess amounts of time thinking about such a decision is a waste of time.

[Sulla]

Heartdisease

Ignorant

LMAO, spamming the boards with complaints about the game, untill you get your money back... Go spam mail Activision then. Im sure they will luv what you write.

for the record, sometimes micromanagement is REQUIRED. You will understand when your skill level rises. IF you play the game that long.

Gone within 2 months, but thats just my guess.

Prove me wrong, with fun games and some constructive posts. (or dont, I wont follow this thread anymore)

Sulla

ps reason that I reply to this post. I dont like people who can only complain. There is a community behind TW, and that community does its best to make the game enjoyable for new and old players. Go read the posts scattered across the boards. Then come back... There is something for everybody.

O and btw your 75%. for me its at least 85% *and thats good*

And also, you cant fool us, The price on viking and MTW isnt so high anymore. Unless you have purchased it somewhere for the full amount. In that case next time also study prices

Sulla

[Navaros]

Sulla - i fail to see how i have ever spammed these boards. my posts always have "meat" in them and are on-topic therefore i would like you to justify how anything i've ever said here would meet the univerally-accepted definition of spam. just cuz you don't LIKE my posts, that does not mean they are spam.

micro-management in Total War is a joke. i know this cuz i am an RTS vet - i KNOW how to micro. my micro skills are immaculate in fact.

when you try to micro in Total War then the computer AI slaps you in the face for it by routing your unit right off the map and saying it's been "Disenheatened by constant retreat". of course, i was NOT retreating, i was MICRO-ING. but in Total War, as you can see - microing is a BAD THING. for you to say micro is part of Total War is to me, a very silly statement based on my personal experience in trying to implement my micro skills in Total War and then being slapped in the face by CA for doing so.

i do complain a lot; that my nature. if there are complaints to be found, then i'll be one to make them. especially since these complaints were "mysteriously absent" from all the Reviews of Total War which i have read.

i did get the Battle Collection at a discounted rate from the original Retail price - but that's still more than half of the "normal" price for Medieval that i paid and hence a substantial sum that i want my money's worth for.

you say Total War has "something for every one". i have not found that to be true. i came to Total War expecting TACTICAL BATTLES and instead i find it's a game where the outcome is largely random and often determined arbitrarily by the buggy computer AI rather than the skill/tactical implementation of those on the field.

[Brutal DLX]

Regardless on what one thinks about another's opinion, one has to respect it first.
And although I don't agree with Navaros' opinion on several points (money's worth etc.) and (initial post) with the way he phrased it, I can respect his opinion and his right to voice it here.
You should do the same and also bear in mind that when criticising, it is not always possible to reach a consensus or a change of opinion when starting off from certain different standpoints.

[Togakure]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ April 19 2004,19:46)]i came to Total War expecting TACTICAL BATTLES and instead i find it's a game where the outcome is largely random and often determined arbitrarily by the buggy computer AI rather than the skill/tactical implementation of those on the field.

Navaros, are you descended from Albert Einstein? That must be why your opinion of TW is right on and the opinions of the "professional critics" and other 5000+ people here are just way off ... (resists embedding rolleyes smiley ...).

Did you ever stop to think that maybe you've come into the TW world with preconceived ideas about how it should be, which interfere with you seeing things as they actually are? Have you considered that maybe TW games are deeper than you expected, and that understanding them and becoming good at them might take a significant investment of time, focused study and practice? Try LETTING GO of your prefab attitudes and inferences regarding the game (and for that matter, regarding yourself)--they do nothing but distract you from your apparent goal: to get good at the game and get your money's worth out of it.

GAH

My comments earlier regarding racial slurs were not pointing out racism, but prejudice. In your other post where you ... ask for help improving your skills, you referred to gamespy as "gayspy." Prejudice is implicit in the use of such terminology, and I find any prejudice of this nature to be offensive. Fortunately for this community, our mods and admins are on top of things--your post has already been edited, and the offensive statement rendered civil. Thanks Org Staff (Rob the Illegitimate )--I for one appreciate it.

[Togakure]

Quote[/b] (Brutal DLX @ April 19 2004,20:48)]Regardless on what one thinks about another's opinion, one has to respect it first.

You should do the same ... .

BrutalDX: Respect is bloody earned No, I disagree vehemently with your opinion m8--I most certainly don't have to "... respect it first." Anyone who comes into my eye/ear/mind space spouting unconstructive negativisms dripping with sarcasm and laced with vulgarities and implicit prejudice will earn nothing but my contempt and ire. Being civil and respectful is not that difficult. Anyone who practices this earns my respect. Those who don't, well ... no need to repeat myself.

DOUBLE GAH

[7Bear7Scar]

Quote[/b] ]1. you can't choose your team til ALL PLAYERS are in the game. that's nonsense. i don't like having to stare at the screen constantly until the game is full, only then to have to click "READY". the entire step of having to click "READY" in this situation is a wasteful and needless one that should be removed outright. i want to be able to choose my army AS SOON AS I ENTER THE GAME, that way i can go watch TV or whatever til the game is full and everyone else has chosen their army and is ready to start - without me having to stare at my monitor constantly for no good reason at all; as i do with the current dumb setup

I would be curious to know why you consider this a waste of time. I put it to you that you dont really understand the concept of teamwork, if so, then just do 1v1's where you dont need to spend so much time 'waiting around' (also doing the rest of us a favour as you sound like you prefer your own style and sod what the rest of your team thinks).

In a larger game, the time should not be wasted. If you are new to online playing, you should select the ally chat and ask them questions about their armies, what tactics they like to use, do they know this map, do they know the guys you are all facing and if so what armies do they like to take/gaming style/etc. In war, this is called 'intelligence', it means you have some 'ideas' before you go into game and can start to plan 'strategies' once you see your terrain. Unlike other games such as Warcraft, you are likely to see the same people many times - we are possibly the closest gaming community out there. You will be judged on your conduct as much as on your gameplay.

Oh, and if the other team spends a long time 'deploying', dont be fooled, they are planning/communicating, as teams should (as opposed to going to watch a bit of TV).

[Sulla]

Ill explain myself the following way:

1st First of, I could respect your opinion if:
It was constructive (and without the *** and **** , you know what I mean, Thanx for explaining that Togakure)

2nd If it was written by someone who has extensive experience in the online world of TW. Not that someone with less experience shouldnt comment on stuff like this (hell, compared to some players, im still a newbie, iv only been around for a year now) but ahum a rephrasing mite be better. For example.

Could someone explain to me why there isnt a time limit on army selection? I would personally like this function because.....

THEN we can communicate. And the result could be, hey this dude has a good idea. Maybe we could do something about it?

I mean, picture yourself in a meeting, and some guy comes along and says, the way this works SUX.
Or he would say, well iv been studying the following, and wouldnt it be better IF?

1st all would agree with me I think

2nd, now why is that? Let's say that 70% of the peeps thought the same way as navaros (and it could be so),and all would post the way he does. What would the org scream out? Total war Sux This only shows the negative side of the TW series. I understand at times it can be frustrating, but imo navaros "reviewed" the game and he doesnt really like it because it isnt warcraft...

Now about the micromanagement. Im sure your a excellent micro player in "for example" warcraft. There you can click away because that game doesnt care about morale.[B]

Morale is everything in Total war. Picture this. Your the general and your giving orders to your troops. a mouseclick is a shout. FORWARD, CHARGE, FIRE. etc. Now its commenly known that troops dont respond well to orders like RETREAT, and again RETREAT, RETREAT RETREAT. At some point they say, the hell with it and, Suprise, rout...
Its the same reason why units rout if you try to disengage them, while they are fighting. Lets say they are loosing the fight and get flanked. your unit is at half strength, they lost 30 of there m8's in battle. Now the general tells them to RETREAT. The dudes panick, and the result is a rout.

This is the totalwar system, and I think CA did a excellent job. Offcourse its not perfect, but then again, define perfect?

Anyway, to explain myself further, I see this kind of posting as an insult. Why? Cause I know so many people are giving up free time, to write a lot of things down, create great tools, try to further better the system. Not that he attacked the community, but cracking a game we all like and luv, isnt very nice is it? Well, at least not IMO.

regards,

Sulla

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ April 20 2004,03:55)]2. Load army selection from a chosen text file.

Yes that would be great. Of course we still have to wait 15 minutes because of those damn newbies..only takes one to spoil the fun

Quote[/b] ]Anything to facilitate flirting...

mmm flirting..



CBR

[CBR]

Well we simply cant have a time limit of army selection/deployment. That would just be a waste of time to have a battle start when allies/enemies either with half armies or facing in wrong direction.

Sure its annoying when some games takes ages to start. But there is not much to do about it is there? We are humans afterall and as I understand it some people even have a life, and all that can cause delays.

Host smaller games or try and gather a group for a game so it will fill quickly.

Chatting and having fun with people before the battle actually starts, is nice too. Of course Im biased as I love a good chat


CBR

[Sulla]

note: One practical reason why you shouldnt select army b4 all players are present, and have selected faction:

If for example you and your allies select turkish in early and select your army. The dudes on the other side come in, choose all byzantine, get 4 byzantine infantry val 3 each
, a couple of varangians to cut up your heavy cavalry and flanking alan mercenary cavalry. In other words, your toast unless your skilllevel is a lot higher then your opponent's.

Often I select army's to match an opponent faction. For example, if you compete with 4 english guys, you know they will have A LOT of longbow's. If you decide to get 2 pavise xbows, and playing 10k your gonna have a difficult time, unless you rush. Rushing in a early stage vs xbows and longbows not fatiqued, a strong infantry line and good cavalry, in 10k. bloody, dont you think.

About the game randomness. yes, if you have exactly the same army as your opponent, charge head on it will be random.

But note: If a veteran player attacks a non veteran player with exactly the same army, who would win? That isnt random, its tactics, knowing where to hit your enemy and how to match units. Not random.

Sulla

Sorry, im flooding the boards :p. Only trying to explain a few things.

[Sulla]

Well chatting in the lobby is a great way to keep up to date, see what's happening in the TW world and you can also have a laugh or two

Sulla

[Orda Khan]

I agree in part with some criticisms that Navaros has mentioned and I would not advocate that he post 'positive' posts only. Why should he? I remember some time back being told to go find another game. Funny thing was, this was from a ( pardon me for I hate the term ) Noob....oh and not long afterwards the swipe was patched
Guys, there is plenty that could be fixed with MTW/VI and that goes for single play as well, too many silly bugs.
There are things I don't like about the game, there are things I'd like to see changed. At the very least Navaros may feel he was duped by all the rave reviews ( IMO possibly justified ) It's the nature of this game that we enjoy not so much the game itself....come on guys, we all did our share of bitching about this or that over the years I'll admit, I've been disappointed on the whole, with MTW and I'd defy anyone to say it's brilliant. Spears....who uses them? No this game is not brilliant...the concept is. Some complain louder than others, some express themselves in different ways.......being different from each other is what makes this life interesting, long may it continue.

Navaros complained without singling out an individual, so he is disgruntled and pointing out his annoyances. I can't find offence with this. Player X is slow as ****, a pain in the ***, or should go find another game....Yes, I could find plenty of offence with these comments. There have been direct, personal insults on these forums....I find a few rants about the game in general pale into insignificance by comparison.

.........and Brutal DLX was saying we have to respect a person's right to complain ( I think I'm right Brutal DLX? ) not that we must respect the way people complain. Navaros payed for his product, so he has the right to complain. To his credit he is honest and admits to being negative, pessimistic.....( realistic? ) Rather than claiming to be an Angel until you provoke me then I'm the the Devil Incarnate

Propoganda is never a good thing and only ever benefits those who spread it and not those who believe it.

In the end if Navaros has expressed his opinions of frustration, how is insulting him going to help?

Synical viewpoint......Carry on doing CA's work for them ....and for no salary too

......Orda

[Sulla]

Orda Khan, hiya. Reason why I reacted the way I did, apart from allready stated reasons..

When I select an army, sometimes im finished within 4 minutes and sometimes it takes a bit longer, for whatever reason. Now a player comes along, who I dont know personally, and he doesnt like to wait. Now thats fine by me, but I know in my hosts, if you start pressuring guys "you dont know" into hurrying (maybe a newbie with a lot of questions) I will ask you to w8 for everybody, without commenting on people. That's the way it works imo.

Now that may not have much to do with his post, but everything in it points out, imo, he is not very patient. I have seen many newer players being insultive to other new players, and 2 or 3 of those insults resulted in a ban.

Sorry if I insulted someone with this, but he just got on my nerves. Allways pushing, must go faster. Let others enjoy there games also, isnt that fair? Some have difficulty with army selection. And some are fast clickers.

B4 you know it we will have only passworded games, 2 minutes to select your army 2 minutes to deploy, rush rush hurry, if game isnt over in 20 minutes the clock says the one with the most kills win. Cause I aint got all day.

My most epic battles have been battles of 50 or more minutes, where lines just would break, both parties regroup and go at it again. Most of the time, it was a 3 v 3 or 4 v 4, with 60% of the players allready gone, because they couldnt wait so long. (mostly the loosing party ).

Just a further explanation of my reasons.

And you would agree with me I also made some constructive posts Orda ;) or not?

Sulla