Knights of the Old Republic 2

[Voigtkampf]

Yes, the sequel; as of this moment, I can tell there will be an X-Box version, but almost definitely there will be a PC version as well.

Five years after the defeat of Malak, one of the old Jedi masters, a Mandalorian war veteran returns from the Outer Rim (or wherever they might dwell, waiting for the sequels) and finds things…changed. The Jedi Order has been dissolved, and he is perhaps the last of the Jedi. The Republic is in chaos, and this is where you start, as this very Jedi master. There will be no possibility to import your save games from KotOr 1, so it's a fresh start. You will see some old friends and familiar faces, like Revan (whomever he now might be) and HK-47 and some others as well (be surprised), and you will visit some old and new worlds like Dantooine and Telos, the home world of Carth from KotOR 1. You will also run into Ebon Hawk and mop the old Betty up, you will have new Jedi powers, decide to be on the good or the dark side of the force, with matching new classes, you will get to use the new forces like Force Sight (Jedi Academy, anyone?) and Force Clairvoyance (see distant places…but on the map of the world you are on). Hold fast; Battle Meditation and Dark Side Rage will be there as well, but now info has been released on their exact nature. There will be no MP, online of offline.

The interesting part; the sequel will not be done by Bioware, but from instead, a company founded by ex-Black Isle gurus like Feargus Urquhart and Chris Avallone, who will be the lead designer.

For German speaking members, a link to the GameFront.de

EDIT No more links to the Dark Side stuff, sorry for that, Lady frogbeastegg, I wasn't sure whether that was a breach of the Org copyright policy. On the legal side, it should be completely without any concern, since we haven't hosted and scanned material ourselves (I should know best, since I have covered a good share of copyright law in a quite recent past), but for the peace of our minds, the links are gone.

[Ser Clegane]

Hehe ... just saw the same thing a couple of minutes ago on gamigo.de.

Not a big surprise after the success of the first game, but still good to see the progress (really looking forward to that one)
*hums Star Wars theme while gettin g weird look from co-worker*

The Bioware thing is indeed a bit funny, though...

[frogbeastegg]

Voigtkampf remove the links to the scanned articles please, they breach the magazine's copyright and that can cause trouble. You have 24 hours before I remove them myself. Thank you.

On a more pleasant this does sound somewhat promising, but if I catch up with Revan and find he is not a lightsider traveling with a certain female jedi with a strange hairdo I shall turn to the darkside

[Basileus]

KOTOR was awesome, i finished it 2 times which is something i rarely do nowdays...eagerly waiting for it

[[DnC]]

Finally it's confirmed? And I already knew Bioware wasn't going to do it, because they said they wouldn't.
Anyways I'm very looking forward to it

Force Sight? WOW
Battle Meditation? Again WOW I wonder how this will work?

I like how the story seems to begin I want to know what Revan will look like in the sequel.

WOOHOO KoTOR2

[Mount Suribachi]

KOTOR2 =

No Bioware =

No import old save game =




But especially the no Bioware thingy.

[Voigtkampf]

Mount Suribachi, the old Black Isle people will be doing the sequel, and they made Fallout, one of the best RPG's off all times. If you played that, then you know how good their stories are. Besides, they will be using the same engine as for the first part, so there is no big concern that they will mess up something there. Basically, few new modifications, powers, some new extra effects an a new story; the absence of Bioware will, I hope and believe, not be as painful as you might believe.

Hehe, what a sap am I, I just noticed that I didn't write that the sequel will be done by Obsidian Entertainment in my first post, I forgot to insert that word I mean, really…

[The Tuffen]

Cool, any1 know when a likely release date is? I absolutly loved the first one and completed it many times (usually as a dark side character )

[discovery1]

I think I read that a early 2005 release date for PCs. I think it was IGN(wish I knew how reliable they were). Oh yes, I believe it also said a late 2004 relase on the X-box,

[The Tuffen]

2005 Don't think i can wait that long.

[[DnC]]

Here's another preview from Gamespot.com for the ones whom are interested.

Also look at this site if you haven't seen it yet: LucasArts.com.

Both are direct links.

[The_Emperor]

Great news I loved the original.

I'm laying odds that Reven is the Villain after the light side ending in the original, but fell from grace again some time after destroying the Star Forge (complete with his old funky robes)

Also I wouldn't be surprised if Bastilla is dead or something as a reason for his conversion.

[frogbeastegg]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ May 05 2004,11:13)]I'm laying odds that Reven is the Villain after the light side ending in the original, but fell from grace again some time after destroying the Star Forge (complete with his old funky robes)

Also I wouldn't be surprised if Bastilla is dead or something as a reason for his conversion.

If anyone touches a hair on Bastila's strangely coiffured head the frog will not be happy, likewise any Jedi->Sith->Jedi->Sith flip flopping by Revan.

It sounds as if you will be able to 'tell' certain old characters their fates through dialogue, for example if you say you heard of a man called Carth who got sat on by a bantha Carth will never appear in that game. However if you say he is alive he may turn up. It sounds like they have found a way to continue most of the previous games outcomes, including what sex your last character was.

[The_Emperor]

Oh trust me I'd be happy to see the Stuck up Bastilla return... She was one of the most fun characters from the Original.

[nightcrawlerblue]

Hmmm... I never played the original KOTOR. My birthday's coming up fairly soon maybe I'll ask for that...

[econ21]

Nightcrawlerblue - what kind of games do you like? KOTOR will probably appeal to a wide variety of RPGers - it has nice visuals, very good cinematic qualities, fairly deep combat options and character building possibilities, non-linearity and a good central story arc, richly drawn recruitable NPCs with movie-quality voice work for all dialogue, plus a nice balance of combat and interesting quests. It's also surprisingly faithful to Star Wars while still being original. It's pretty excellent on all levels, the puzzle is why it doesn't quite compete with the all time greats like Fallout and Baldurs Gate 2. I suspect it may be that the package, while superlative, is somehow rather bland. Perhaps it needs a slightly darker tone - something KOTOR2 may deliver.

[nightcrawlerblue]

I'm a fan of Star Wars (not like a fanatic but I like it) and sorta a fan of RPGs. I'm not a big fan of fantasy games so there aren't too many good RPGs other than that.

Does your character increase in level or stats or anything like in a normal RPG or is there no level system?

[Ser Clegane]

Quote[/b] (nightcrawlerblue @ May 06 2004,07:52)]Does your character increase in level or stats or anything like in a normal RPG or is there no level system?

Levelling is pretty much the same as in D&D RPGs (e.g., Neverwinter Nights) with an improvement in stats, feats, health points. Actually the whole game is basically a modded D&D RPG, but IMO it is very well done.

[econ21]

Yeah - there is a fairly rich character building system underlying KOTOR. There are a couple of excellent walkthrus on gamefaqs.com that explain the mechanics very well (I have a vague memory one was entitled game mechanics and the other was a walkthru called kotor_f or some such). It's quite fun to design a character build from level 1 to level 20, as you have lots of choices - in terms of feats, force powers, and bonus attribute points as well as deciding whether to delay levelling up in order to get more Jedi levels. Whatismore, you get a party of around 8 NPCs and have to level them up too - gamefaqs has a really nice guide to this too. I don't know why kotor was criticised by some as an RPG-lite; it's got all the stat crunching you could want and even encourages you to actually role-play as well (through lightside and darkside points).

[barvaz]

I am reading all the posts in this and other threads about KotOR and I always feel like I was sold a totally different game than the rest of the world because I am probably one of the very few people on these boards and in the entire gaming community who doesn’t think KotOR is the God sent gift to computer gaming. Sure, it isn’t a bad game, it certainly has its fun moments and strong points but it is nowhere close to what the media and reviews are making from it, the game is totally over-hyped and overestimated. In my opinion, KotOR is a good game with some annoying points if taken lightly as action/adventure game, very disappointing as a PC RPG.


Why?

The first and foremost obvious flaw in KotOR is that it was designed and implemented from the grounds up as console game. The PC version is a console port and this strikes through the entire game despite the bold (and obviously false) claims from Bioware that the game was redone for the PC. The interface is the best example – it is horrible by any PC standard. HUD, Inventory management, camera (lack of) control, combat system – all were done with gamepad in mind. Go play Dungeon Siege or even NWN, now go back to KotOR and see what I mean.

Second, the story. Now I was actually enjoying it until the famous moment when the plot takes that bizarre (and totally lame) turn. I was sitting in front of my computer and thinking “I can’t believe they did this”, this is something that you’d expect to find in low budget soap operas in chapter #7634 and not in a game made by the creators of Baldur’s Gate. What next can we expect in KotOR2? We discover that Bastila is actually the hero’s lost sister? That Malak rises from the dead and leads an order of suicidal Jawa monks? Comon. I also don’t understand how anyone can say the plot is anything but linear – it is a straight and most obvious line from start to end. You can write a somewhat accurate summary of the plot of an average game without ever playing it.

As for roleplaying, the only real choice you make is choosing between light and dark sides. Once you made up your mind, the path of your character’s progression becomes very clear, there isn’t much else to debate on. In every dialog or point in the story you can easily see the “chose option A for dark”, “option B for light” and sometimes “C if you haven’t decided yet”. If you want to give your character a personality, your choices are “emerging light hero” or “dark tyrant after all” molds. That’s it.


Character development in regards of skills and powers is also a stripped down version of D&D. You are basically down to two and a half options: Jedi who uses powers more, Jedi who uses lightsaber more and Jedi who can’t make up his mind. And there isn’t enough distinction between them to actually call them separate “classes”. Combine this with your choice of Dark/Light and by the end of the game you have no real dilemma of which powers/feats to choose, you can have them all. Your character will be pretty much “maxed up”, there are no difficult choices as you would expect in real RPG. The other skills, while present in the game, are either useless or may be avoided. You don’t really need a “thief” or “computer hacker” in this game. “Persuade” skill is somewhat useful and gives refreshing results from time to time but the quickest and most efficient method is, as always, brute force.


Another annoying thing is the total lack of interaction between you, the player, and the game world environment. The game world, while pretty, is nothing more than static decoration set. You can open some chests, some doors, few other minor objects and that’s about all.


And there are, of course, all those little flaws that going through your head while playing a game that is supposed to suck you completely into a different universe. Questions like “If the Sith completely control Taris and everyone is looking for you, how come you can run around the streets with drawn weapons and wave them in front of the Sith noses?” or “If the Sith Academy on Korriban accepts only one student per year, how on earth they have enough Sith to fight a war?” and lots of other of the sort.



On the bright side, the game can be fun if not taken seriously and with lowered expectation (i.e. don’t expect it to be as grand as BG2 or as free as Morrowind). Take it as an adventure with light RPG elements. The graphics are good, the combat system (while lacks real tactics elements or challenge) let’s you use lightsabers, which can’t be bad. Most of the dialogs are well written. Some NPC backgrounds and personalities are well done as well (HK-47, while an irritating NPC, is a good example).


As for KotOR2, I take the news of its making indifferently. I will get and play this game with much lower expectations and with totally different mind set (may even on a console, god forbid). On the other hand, the fact that Bioware isn’t making it can be a blessing in disguise. As much as I appreciated them and their games before they sold their soul to the dark (Xbox) side, KotOR was a real disappointment.


- barvaz

[[DnC]]

Barvaz,

I didn't have any expectations for the game. I actually had a more criticized look on the game, but still decided to buy it after walking around in a computer shop.
At first I was put off a bit about the controls, but just kept on playing it. I became used to the controls and started enjoying the game more and more.
After having finished it the first time I was really impressed with what I played
I really liked the storyline as well

KoTOR is also easy to get into, which I liked for a change.

All in all it was in my opinion a satisfying gaming experience and well worth the money.

As you implied it does make a difference with what sort of mindset you start doing something.

Although certain things were rather annoying, for example; the alien dialogs that seemed to last twice as long as the basic (=English) language. Ofcourse one race might have to pronounce more words (or longer) then another, but with every alien specie? It became quite tedious after a while.

Just giving my perspective

[frogbeastegg]

Yes, it does sound like you played a different game to me.

Gods gift to computer gaming? No, just a good game. Note just game not computer game, since it is a console game as well. I have done enough muttering about the xbox stealing games in the past, so I won't repeat.

The story is linear, so is a book, so is a film. Are books and films less good because of that? No. The plot twist was rather soap opera, but it was done well enough. By the way I seem to recall a similar twist or two in BG, you are a nothing who is actually a baal spawn. That was predictable enough, and I found it rather lame. I also spotted the Imoen thing of BGII from a mile away.

Roleplaying? I managed loads more characters than that I had the psychopath who swung from nice to evil and back again inside of a conversation, the greysider who tried to be good but lost his temper too often, the hopeless lover who rushed to the darkside to follow a certain female, the sceptic who always mocked the speeches and conventions of the Jedi, the joker who always bugged people, the female character who did nothing but insult Carth.

Lightsabre Jedi or force Jedi...again did you try other options? What about blaster Jedi? Sword user? Reluctant Jedi who doesn't use the force unless he has no choice? Heavy combat Jedi who wears armour?

Persuade? I talked my way through more conversations than I care to recall, it was my favourite skill. Brute force, well I suppose if you don't try your conversation options you do end up in more fights, or killing people you don't need to. Don't forget the force persuade options, and the occasional opportunity to use grip via dialogue. You don't need a thief or hacker, but you can still play as them with success.

Interaction with the world was lacking, but that is the same as most other games.

Why don't the Sith notice you? Because it would break the game if they did. Games are full of stupid things like this.

Korriban accepts one final graduated Sith per year, the others become those menial force using grunts you hack your way through. There will be other academies, just as there are other Jedi academies outside of Dantooine.

There is a lot for the sequel to improve on, but that is always the case.

[Mount Suribachi]

The word is would use to describe KOTOR is slick. As a BG/BG2/IWD/PST veteran, I can spot that its AD&D underneath the shiny graphics. I think a lot of people assume that its RPG-lite becos it doesn't have a clunky interface with a bewildering array of stats before you. They're all there, but they're either hidden away, or done so smoothly that you don't realise. I can't comment on the PC interface, what I can say is that on the Xbox it is done brilliantly, full marks to Bioware IMO, very intuitive & easy to use, seamless, smooth. A highly polished game all round.

[Voigtkampf]

Well said, short and precise. I second that.

[benF86]

besides the fact that I missed the option of watching EVERY dice roll made and that it's stupid that I couldn't use ANY force power on Malak with succes (xcept wave or whatever that lvl 3 push is) altho I had wisdom 30 and char around 15, it was the only game I ever finished twice in 4 days. WAAAAY TO SHORT

Else, I missed the quickbar like in NWN. I h8 to always have to switch back to the inventory to select a weapon etc :P

[Mount Suribachi]

Acheron did you ever stop to smell the roses? It took me 60 hours to finish the game - I try not to miss anything in a game. If you did it in 2 days you must have missed soooooo much.

[benF86]

when I was light side, I did every side quest I could find that didn't give any dark side points, and when I was dark side I missed out the bounty hunter guild and hunting of those little bugs in kashyyk. Else I didn't find any other side quests and I talked to just about everyone.

[nightcrawlerblue]

I just bought KOTOR I've only played 2 hours and I've barely advanced through the game at all (been taking my time going to every inch of upper Taris) but it's been pretty good so far. I just hope I got my lightsaber fairly soon.

[MalibuMan]

Soon...ish

:)

[nightcrawlerblue]

4 hours... The lightsaber doesn't seem near. I'm beginning to despize this dreadful planet Taris Who designed their stupid sewers anyway? There's like 700 doors