Is there random factor in the morale check?

[Dionysus9]

I mean, other than [Rate of Casualties], are there any other random factors in determining whether a unit runs?

Many RPG's (D&D) require units to make a "morale" check-- roll dice and if less than some threshold number, the fail the check and run. Thus, we have been saying "morale check", but I dont think that there is a random factor at work here.

From what Longjohn2 has said, we know that units keep a running tally of their morale,
+'s,-'s, etc. My understanding is that when the "route threshold" is reached, by pure addition and subtraction, the unit runs.

Is this a correct understanding?



[This message has been edited by Dionysus9 (edited 05-14-2002).]

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Dionysus9:
I mean, other than [Rate of Casualties], are there any other random factors in determining whether a unit runs?

Many RPG's (D&D) require units to make a "morale" check-- roll dice and if less than some threshold number, the fail the check and run. Thus, we have been saying "morale check", but I dont think that there is a random factor at work here.

From what Longjohn2 has said, we know that units keep a running tally of their morale,
+'s,-'s, etc. My understanding is that when the "route threshold" is reached, by pure addition and subtraction, the unit runs.

Is this a correct understanding?



[This message has been edited by Dionysus9 (edited 05-14-2002).][/QUOTE]

Dionysus9-san, random IMDO as sometimes a fairly high morale unit will start sprinting, while sometimes they will fight to the last couple of men.

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Victory First, Battle Last

[Puzz3D]

All my tests indicate that morale level is completely deterministic. When a steady unit routs at the moment it's given a move command, that is a built in feature which uses a counter to prevent one player from always moving away from the opponent.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[Dionysus9]

Thanks for the replies.

I know what you mean Papewaio, but I think Yuuki is right...I think the route of a high honor unit has no random factors, but can be predicted with certainty based on math (if we only knew the equation). The most common cause of fresh-high-honor troops routing is this: They are surrounded by enemy troops, and most (if not all) friendly troops are routing. This stacks a bunch of morale penalties on them and they crap their pants.

When they fight for a long time it is because there are other friendly units around them, they are not taking a lot of casualties all at once, they are not totally outnumbered by the enemy, and/or they are fighting alongside their taisho-- all of which keeps their morale high.

[longjohn2]

There's no specific random element in the morale. The randomness comes from the situation. Many of the morale factors depend on certain thresholds for distances or proportions, and when a unit is near the threshold then which side it falls is essentially random unless you're doing the sort of laboratory condition experiments that Puzz does.
Also there is a lot of randomness in combat and shooting, which influences morale quite heavily.
Also there are no specific morale tests in Shogun, the morale of all units is evaluated every animation cycle.

[Dionysus9]

thanks lj, thats what I thought....of course, human decisions will result in (somewhat) random situations on the battlefield, and casualties (being random) will affect morale. But it is nice to know that my men will fight as long as they are physically able to keep from crapping their pants. No early running because they failed to generate a sufficiently high random number.

[Papewaio]

So if you know all the factors you could create an instant chain rout?

---- EDIT ----

* Evil Laugh; Muhhahahaha!

'Come here little H9 Ashi we have the cure for you.'

[This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 05-15-2002).]

[Puzz3D]

No, you cannot create and instant chain rout because the magnitude of the effects isn't great enough without casualties. This won't be true for depleted units which can rout just from the presence of enemy units.

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
No, you cannot create and instant chain rout because the magnitude of the effects isn't great enough without casualties. This won't be true for depleted units which can rout just from the presence of enemy units.[/QUOTE]

Agreed but what I was hinting at is knowing all the factors I could for instance attack using a Nod Wedge with two flanking units and a gun (for gun focus) and a calvary in the strategic rear of the unit to maximise static morale penalities.

Then to maximise casualties I would fire my gunners in a single line as my Nodites hit.

To get a chain I would do do this against two units simultaneously and when one runs so should the other and then a chain effect.

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Victory First, Battle Last