Rebirth of factions

[Cattleman22]

I was under the assumption that no rebellions could occur if the happiness of a province was over 100. To leave myself a buffer zone, I manipulated the tax rate and garrison levels every turn to keep a minimum of 150. As the Byzantines, I had killed all of the Syrians. Yet the Syrians faction returned even though my province had a happiness of 150.

I was very surprised when this happened. So I reloaded the game to verify that the happiness was where I had thought, and it was. I then ended the year with happiness of 150 and again the Syrian faction came back. So I again reloaded the game and manipulated the happiness to 170. This time, the Syrian faction did not come back. I then reloaded again, changed the happiness back to 150 and had the Syrians come back and continued my game from that point.


Since this has occurred, I have always maintained ever province at a minimum of 170 happiness. This is not that hard later on in the game when spies are around. But in the beginning of the game, this dramatically reduces my income. What is the optimal happiness level that most of you target?


c22

[katank]

I think the numbers must be wrong.

you only need 120 for no chance of reappearance.

factions will only have a chance of coming back if there is a rebellion in one of their former provinces which means below 100.

if they do come back, if any former provinces of theirs has less than 120, it has a chance of having a reappearing stack spawn there also.

Thus, with 120 loyalty, there will be reemergences in that province.

Note: if playing VI, just activate autotax and you get 120 adjusted automatically.

lot less microing.

[Mablung]

Syrians? Are you playing a MOD? The Syrians aren't a faction. They are rebels.

[Xiphias]

Perhapes he means scilians?

[motorhead]

My understanding of loyalty thresholds is this:
Less Than 100% - a plain rebellion (bandits, peasants, etc) OR a faction re-emergence can occur.
Greater Than 100% but Less Than 120% - ONLY a faction re-emergence could occur. A dev post specifically said keep your loyalty at 120+ to avoid faction re-emergences.

As always, the exception to this rule is the Pope, who can re-emerge even with 200% loyalty.

Also note that the loyalty in a province at the end of the turn isn't 100% accurate. If your king moved that turn, the effects of his increased distance away or being cut off don't appear until the next turn. So it's very possible for a prov to be at 200% at the end of 1200, but your king moved that same turn. At the start of 1201 he's cut off (blockade, no port) and loyalty plummets, the lost loyalty is factored in before rebellion/re-emergence checks are done, so the problem appears to come from out of the blue.

It's also possible, though rare, that the AI has dropped a spy in your prov reducing loyalty suddenly.

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]Greater Than 100% but Less Than 120% - ONLY a faction re-emergence could occur. A dev post specifically said keep your loyalty at 120+ to avoid faction re-emergences.

Loyalty rebellions can also occur with loyalty over 100%. I've seen a loyalty rebellion knock out some sieging rebels on Crete once.

[Ranges]

Of course, the sieging party already owns the province.. So technically, it was a rebel province that suffered the re-emergence ;)

[garion]

I once had a faction coming back in a province with 200% loyalty, but i had only conquered it one turn before and a neighboring province also fell to the new faction

[Ludens]

If your garrison is smaller than 100 men, you get a bandit rebellion, independent of loyalty.

[garion]

nope, wasn't the case, just rebellion spreading, maybe the return of the faction was already planned, and i just kinda got in the way. Not a big deal though, I crushed it in a matter of seconds (just pressing 2)

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (Ludens @ Maj 08 2004,06:09)]If your garrison is smaller than 100 men, you get a bandit rebellion, independent of loyalty.

That isn't true, the loyalty needs to get below 100% to get a bandit rebellion.

Trust me, my garrison is usually only the governor's unit and I like it when it's depleted. It's only there to be easy to find, don't die and you can retreat to the castle in case of a rebellion or invasion. Some provinces even got 0 troop stationed there.

[PseRamesses]

The highest happiness value I have had when a rebellion occured was 120% but that was in Portugal. I must say that the 120% safety line is appliable in all my games with no problem what so ever. It seems very sdtrange to experince a rebellion at 170% happiness.

[katank]

bandit rebellions can actually happen with 100+ loyalty as long as a garrison of less than 100 and no fort.

however, the game is quite lenient about that during the first few turns and from then on, they are usually nothing to worry about.

even on expert, if during the first turn or two, your loyalty level dips ever so slightly below 100, a rebellion is not guaranteed to occur. However, otherwise, it's instant rebellion if below 100.

[Oaty]

Its to my notice that if you only own a few provinces rebellion is highly unlikely (excluding civil war). I've always wondered how the heck the A.I was getting away with rebellions with such small garrisons until I was weak myself. The game is designed not to hurt the small guy but aims its intentions against the big guy.

Now when you get close to 60 percent I have had rebellions in regions with high loyalty. It is a bit of a game balance, also when I was the weak guy rebels would join me(out of sympothy I guess) but this help turned the odds in my favour (only to get slaughtered a few years later)

This happened to me in VI as I thought hey I'm against the A.I. again I'll just train mobs of peasants and make the A.I. think I'm strong while I am upgrading farmland. Yeah right I got mobbed like I was the A.I. The rebels kept joining me but to no ado as I was getting clobbered by superior troops