XVI -XVII mod

[cegorach]

1) In general yes - starshaped one 'layer' walls.

2) Good. Music will be useful also for the new edition for MTW2 so it is always welcome,
The main thing is to have the music which fits the mood - battle music especially.

3) The new animations from the patch - only here they do not have low res bifs and use high res all the time, slightly better graphic cards automatically re-scale them as required, worse apparently can't.

It works well on slightly better computers ( on 64 grapgic card it works marvellously), but in PMTW 2.0 I will give the option to choose weaker animations too.

The notes are of no consequence - they were used to mark places for new bow shooting animations, those however might not appear...

They do not appear in the game anyway in no way.

[streety]

Mainly for Deus Ret and Cegorach, and anyone else interested, regarding Bows versus Muskets:

I don't know how much people on this forum get into such historical issues, so forgive me if this is old news, or should be placed in the Monastery section of the forum, but having played the mod, I think Ceg probably has the bow-musket balance just about spot-on. There's actually been some research on longbows v muskets (but almost nothing good on-line, except once in New Scientist, for which you have to be a subscriber; and stay away from Wikepedia, whose inputs can be inaccurate or half-knowledge passed off as facts, when it comes to more esoteric points). Anyway, I did some studying on the demise of the English/Welsh longbow a few years ago. In terms of pure penetrative killing power, the longbow was not outperformed by the musket until the early 17th Century, and when combined with the issues of accuracy and reloading times, it remained superior until 18th Century breech-loading rifles, and probably still had more reliability too, until the handguns of the 19th Century.

What caused the demise of the longbow in Britain was not the advent of the musket but the availability of quality bowmen. A longbow required constant training and practice from early childhood, eventually requiring of a man an incredible 250-300lb (110-130kg) pull and steady aim through his two bow-fingers! I witnessed one televised demonstration of such a pull putting a longbow arrow (which, by the way, was a yard/metre long!) through a medieval castle's 6-inch (150cm) solid oak door at a range of 80yds (73m), such that its bodkin tip just emerged the other side. Also, a longbowman's shoulders and musculature became necessarily, purposefully deformed as he grew from childhood to achieve these powers. By comparison, a musketeer could be taught in a few weeks, and have no special strength. During the Hundred Years War the French would often simply cut off the two bow-fingers of any English and Welsh longbowmen they caught, then release them, subsequently useless, back to the English army. Hence the origin of the British V-sign, used by their bowmen as a to taunt the French soldiers, to demonstrate they still had their two bow-fingers. These powerful arm muscles also made the English & Welsh longbowmen quite deadly in melee (something not widely appreciated by military historians today), and they were not mere skirmishers like other bowmen, but true multi-purpose troops. The main reason for avoiding melee was not really because other melee-troops were better, but because longbowmen were too precious, but at Agincourt Henry V, with 5,000 bowmen and only 1,000 knights & men-at-arms, had no choice but to keep his bowmen in the melee, and the effect against 36000* French was devastating (*French figures vary, but don't believe anything less than 24000 - the figure that French historians of the day used).

England's king Henry VIII is at least partly, if not mostly, to blame for the demise of the English longbow during the 16th century. Access to muskets and gunpowder could be more readily controlled, but the bow could not, and he feared their power in the hands of the low-born, so kept banning their practice, then occasionally reallowing it in time of trouble with France. Certainly, there are a few French accounts from as late as the Enterprise of Boulogne in 1544, where French troops, no longer used to being on the receiving end, were shocked and panicked by English longbow fire. But Henry VIII's on-off banning orders meant that just within a generation or two, by late 16th century, the longbowman was a rarity long before muskets would otherwise have made them obsolete.

[Deus ret.]

Thanks for the informative reply, streety. In terms of the mod, I guess this would mean that bowmen should become much more expensive as time goes by, at least for the English. I know that the Russian mounted nobility refused to use guns until the end of the 17th century and later only did so because the backwardness of their weaponry led to some catastrophic military defeats; not to speak of the Turkish army which ignored military modernization until much later and was subsequently pushed out of the Balcans, not posing too much of a threat to the Hapsburgs after 1683. But that's the issue I spoke about: Mod-wise, Russian or Turkish HA's still rule supreme as late as 1680 - except the player has good fast cavalry to match them. That's why I always had the most success as Poland. Battling the Ottoman Empire with the Hapsburgs' (or other Middle/West Europeans') slowish army is not a nice task at all. I had similar experiences when fighting the Russians as the Swedish. I mean, it would be nice to have the historically quickly declining value (be it strategic or whatever) of non-gunfire missiles reflected in the mod, but as it is, a cav-heavy Ottoman army from 1550 can still wreck havoc upon, say, French troops from over a century later because of the musketeers' lack of armour and range. Hordes of HA's carry the game, something well-known from MTW, and I hoped that this would somehow change. After what you've written, maybe a general increase in cost would be appropriate to reflect their decreasing numbers.

PS Cegorach, are you still alive? I'm dying to see v2.0

[cegorach]

[QUOTE=Deus ret.]

I know that the Russian mounted nobility refused to use guns until the end of the 17th century and later only did so because the backwardness of their weaponry led to some catastrophic military defeats;

As below the declining quality factor cannot be recreated, but still you won't see any Zant feudal cavalry in later campaigns and Pomiestnaya cavalry is getting softer too. Of course there is the question of the huge nymbers of them, but this way I represent the large size of Russian armies and the very large population of the entire country (first or second in Europe).

not to speak of the Turkish army which ignored military modernization until much later and was subsequently pushed out of the Balcans, not posing too much of a threat to the Hapsburgs after 1683

I disagree. Military it was still very dangerous, the problem was the weak commanders and the declining quality fo the army - in the mod terms it would mean much more Muslim Levies and and weaker feudal cavalry. The problem is that I did recreate the weaker quality of their feudal horsemen in the last campaign, but I cannot do this in other - 256 unit limit means that I can't fit more units so it is impossible to add weaker and weaker feudal sipahi - their decline is impossible to recreate. I did what I could so for example Yenicheri Tufekci are weaker during 'Religious Turmoil', but stronger in early and late ( early - obviously, late - Kuprulu's reforms temporary made thir units more efficient). Perfectly accurate mod cannot be made. Not with this number of units and factions.

but as it is, a cav-heavy Ottoman army from 1550 can still wreck havoc upon, say, French troops from over a century later because of the musketeers' lack of armour and range.

Actually the Ottomans were dangerous to the westernised armies - the Austrians requested as much Polish cavalry as possible in 1683 because they realised their own is inferior.
Musketeers are still very good - you have lots of ammunition which the HA waste very quickly and the muskets are far more efficient - greater killing power and the fear factor is on their side too.
I found the westeneside armies extremely good to use against the eastern cavalry of the Ottomans or Tatars, but the problem lies in their SIZE - if led properly they are dangerous so use concentrated musket firepower supported by cannons.
Of course the AI isn't best at using gunpowder units, but I can't really correct that. At least I have seen enemy muskets shooting instead of running away several times which managed to rout my own cavalry so it is not so bad.

PS Cegorach, are you still alive? I'm dying to see v2.0

Alive, but barely... NO changes, though. The mod will be released, but it will happen in January.

[cegorach]

Even with PMTW2 in more active phase old, good MTW1 hasn't been abandoned yet.

PMTW 2.0 is coming

some screens from the 4th campaign Lion of the North

Bohemian musketeers



Courland cuirassiers attack Pomeranian militia



Palatinate cuirassiers fight militia of Munster Bishopric



militia of Ragusan republic



The final starting positions of the factions in the campaign

[Antagonist]

Looking good.

Looking foward to it. Will the ECW campaign be available?

Antagonist

[cegorach]

Of course - so there will be 5 campaigns in general.

ECW is actually almost a new mini-mod itself with over 80 units and completely new structures created only for the campaign.
Some of those such as 'Prince Rupert is recruiting !' have very special use and add a lot of new 'character' to the campaign.
Fighting in ECW will be very different from other 4 campaigns, believe me !

I will show some screens after the holiday break.