Sea to Land Assault

[GeoRElrod]

When attacking with your army on some enemy territory which is separated by water... do you have to land your army on a rival port to assault the territory in question? I know already that you must have an shipping lane to do it... but am I limited to attacking only other territories with ports?

[Seven.the.Hun]

should be same as shogun, try placing agents and spies and such in province first, this might work, i forget

[Bhruic]

Nope, the enemy territory can be portless and you can still attack. As long as there are no enemy ships blocking you, there's no problem.

Bh

[Ulair]

Hi GeoRElrod

No, as long as you have a port to ship out of and an undisturbed line of ships you can land anywhere.

Bear in mind, though, that without a port in the province you're invading you can't ship back out once you've won - and ports usually get destroyed in the pillaging even if there's one there. This is very important if you invade with your ruler - he's guaranteed to be cut off from the rest of the kingdom, and that causes major unhappiness and can lead to mass rebellions.

Go ahead and invade, but don't invade with your ruler


Ulair

[nick_maxell]

I have a related question: when attacking from different provinces - where does the attack come from? Lets say 90% of my army come by land and I ship in additional troops - does the port get destroyed too? (I know that it might be randomly anyways) - same for rivers - can I avoid a riverbattle by sending in a larger force from a non river border province ? Or is it the general that counts here?



nick

[garion]

The destruction of buildings is random, and I think that a map with a river will always be a river battle, unless you're besieging him

[Oaty]

For a battle the terrain is decided by wich territory the most troops came from

[RedKnight]

I thought that if armies come from multiple territories, you get the terrain shown in when armies meet here (which you can see by right-clicking on a territory)? Valencia is the only region with a river when armies meet here.

[katank]

click on target province and then float cursor over border from where you are attacking and you'll be shown whether there's a bridge battle or not.

float on border from which most of your troops are coming from.

[nick_maxell]

thanks oaty and katank - I thought so and it makes sense but wanted some conformaton from experienced players

to redknight:

there are many river provinces eg Kiev when comming from Kahzar or Brandenburg from north and west I think and I seem to remember toulose or provence have a river too - I saw a province catalog listing all the features (base income, specialities etc) somewhere here that might help you.



nick

[RedKnight]

Katank, what does the when armies meet here info mean then, if the province that your biggest pile is coming from, decides the terrain? Is it for when more than one faction attacks a region? I took it at face value to mean, if I have armies attacking from more than one province, shrug. Thanks dude

[Accounting Troll]

In my experience when armies meet here means when there's a rebellion in the province and the rebel army does battle with the troops defending the province.

[Oaty]

Quote[/b] (RedKnight @ May 15 2004,14:58)]Katank, what does the when armies meet here info mean then, if the province that your biggest pile is coming from, decides the terrain? Is it for when more than one faction attacks a region? I took it at face value to mean, if I have armies attacking from more than one province, shrug. Thanks dude

That means if a castle is under siege it does'nt matter where the troops are coming from they will fight in the terrain that is right there and the same goes for rebels or loyalist revolt

To be more specific if you go to relieve a castle under siege you fight in that territoryno matter where the troops are coming from

[katank]

yep, oaty's right.

for siege attacks and sallies, then take the info at face value.

otherwise, check the borders from which most of your force is coming from.

notes: when attacking, best avoid bridge battles.

ie. attack valencia from castille, etc.

only exception: when you know that you have more missiles than the enemy and there's one bridge.

that way, you can always force your way across and the eenmy will have less room to run as the river splits the map into two sides.

useful against HA armies.

Recently, I attacked valencia from Aragon and Cordoba as the almos.

my desert archers and berber camels shot the jinettes to pieces and I marched on the remnants with long thin lines of AUMs and slaguhtered them all.

this is due to the fact that the map was so much smaller for them once I crossed that these speedy jinettes only had half the map to work with and was slowly constricted by missile fire on one side and a wall of swords on another.

[garion]

yeah, that's a great tactic. I once lost a battle (over timelimit) due to the fact that htey had fast jinettes, and all I had was slow armoured troops and heay cavalry. I only needed to wipe out 30 guys of a 800 men big army, but I still lost

[GeoRElrod]

Quote[/b] (Ulair @ May 14 2004,14:41)]Bear in mind, though, that without a port in the province you're invading you can't ship back out once you've won - and ports usually get destroyed in the pillaging even if there's one there. This is very important if you invade with your ruler - he's guaranteed to be cut off from the rest of the kingdom, and that causes major unhappiness and can lead to mass rebellions.

Go ahead and invade, but don't invade with your ruler

You know I have a funny story... OK, not so funny for me. After reading your post... I made a mental note not to fall into any of the traps that you warned me about.

Well... I started a VI campaign and played the Irish. I attacked the Welsh by sea. I won the battle but the port got destroyed (like you said it would). That wasn't a problem because I had enough forces that came across with me. I had one of my Princes leading the force as the acting general.

OK... so I get a message that the king dies of an illness... and a new heir takes reign. Guess who takes reign, my prince (the acting general) who is trapped behind enemy lines across the sea. Well... I figure I can hold out until I get that port rebuilt. Wrong

A rebellion forms and splits most of my armies. I back the nobility, and half of my force that invaded the welsh lands by sea (lead by the new king) turn against the king.

So... thats my funny for the day. Just had to tell someone.

[katank]

yeah, bad idea to get your king trapped overseas.

that's why my first born is always defensive general and especially don't participate in overseas expeditions.

also be sure to send both first born and king to safe defending spots and make sure they don't get sieged.

getting defeated in battle and then sieged is not good for loyalty at all.

[RedKnight]

Eh, I didn't know that about seiges, Katank... it must be why the AI always(?) flees his king from an attacked province, if he has somewhere to flee.

If my king is in a real safe spot and not so old he's liable to die, I will use my firstborn in battles, so he can be getting experience. I hear that you get bad v&vs for idleness if you don't fight. Also the new king will often move to somewhere when he is crowned - but it's not entirely predictable, so he could conceivably move somewhere bad, I suppose... why tempt fate.

Hey Katank, I was surprised you don't like bridge attacks. I love them; that's why I made that river listing, so I could see WHERE to do them, every time I can. It's easy to kill the enemy via them, IF you want to 'use' the AI. See the end of my first message in the All the rivers in the world thread for details, but I'm sure you know all about that. (Spoiler alert, if anybody cares) I can understand if you don't want to abuse the AI that way... it's a personal choice.

Speaking of funny stories... I once got totally forced by a third party into fighting someone else that I dearly didn't want to Here's how it went: I had a modest stack in Ireland some 10 years after conquering it. IIRC, France went to war with me and had a ship in the English Channel - which meant Ireland had no route to my king, and revolted. (How come one always needs tons of ships to gaurantee a sea victory? Is it due to Expert setting, or just that way... or does MTW hate me? lol) Anyway, it was a 'patriotic' revolt, and English rebels popped up. At the time, I was NOT at war with England (which did have provinces elsewhere) and in fact I wanted anything but war - because I wanted to be trading with England's numerous ports. However, I could not rush enough ships there to fight France's ships and complete a 'circuit' to my king... not only that, but I also could neither rush troops TO Ireland (to have kept happiness), or even frigging get them off and GIVE Ireland to England... there's no way to decline a battle and leave the province, if you can't So France totally screwed me... there was no way out of a war with England, no matter what I did. Hey it just occurred to me... I could've dismissed all my armies in Ireland... but anyway, big fat sigh, that woulda sucked too... the whole thing was such a bummer. Also I had had a ship in the North Atlantic (which would've gotten around the English Channel blockade) a few turns earlier but had moved it away and forgotten... it was all so very sad. I learned something later, though... does everybody know that the North Atlantic is NOT deep sea? You can put barques there.