If you going to moderate Part 2

[JAG]

The witch hunt of Sat by certain members of the board continues I see.

In my opinion Tosa - ignore them and get back to real problems.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Repeat something often enough and it becomes fact, and what is expected and/or assumed. It is also rather telling that these latest claims of abuse at the hands of Saturnus are not brought by his alleged victims in the incident in question ("Do all people have the right to freedom" thread) in the backroom. He may have been a bit harsh in saying Accounting Troll & CrackedAxe ideas/thoughts on the subject were ridiculous, but he was commenting on the ideology NOT THE PERSON. The spelling error comment, phallacy = fallacy (called word creation of the day by Sat) was a funny faux pas. In fact, CrackedAxe saw nothing wrong with Sat's response in the source thread. At least not till Toga & Redleg made a mountain out of a molehill. If calling someone's ideology "ridiculous" and saying their typo is a "word creation of the day" is to be considered "arrogant abuse" then the people who are jumping on this bandwagon are as guilty of it as Saturnus. In fact, later in the same thread Redleg & Kafir Chobee engage in the same conduct that you, Redleg, have the gall to pillory Saturnus for. But don't worry, you have plenty of company in the "arrogant bastard" category. Let he who has not committed this particular sin in the Tavern cast the first stone. Not too many of us need bother to stand, me included. I can't speak for the rest of the staff, but this misunderstanding has been blown all out of proportion. Toga's reaction started it, Redleg gladly started grinding his axe, and since some seem to have heard it said that Saturnus is an arrogant young bastard who abuses his moderator authority, well then, it must be true. JAG has pegged this one, burn the witch.

[Gregoshi]

Anyone have a duck??

[Redleg]

I got one or two ducks - maybe even a goat or two.

So Tito we are allowing harsh attacks on thoughts and ideas now are we? To the point of allowing the moderator to sarcistically correct someone for thier spelling are we? That's nice to know - especially given that you just gave me a warning for my harsh attack on Kafirs thoughts and ideas. A little hypocritical of you given this statement of yours, but not much.

He may have been a bit harsh in saying Accounting Troll & CrackedAxe ideas/thoughts on the subject were ridiculous, but he was commenting on the ideology NOT THE PERSON.

and wait I initially missed this one

In fact, later in the same thread Redleg & Kafir Chobee engage in the same conduct that you, Redleg, have the gall to pillory Saturnus for.

So I get sanctioned for engaging in conduct that Saturnus also conducted - according to your own words - but I am on a witch hunt? How hypocritical of you Tito. ( yep I got a goat alright)

So maybe you misunderstood my statements as a personal attack on Kafir - well it was just a harsh attack on his thoughts and ideas - just like his was a harsh attack on my thoughts and ideas.

Hell I don't even care about that sanction right now - I did a worse thing then attack Kafir't thoughts and actions and deserve a sanction that the moderators missed. So we can just call it even for now.

Now why I might be more guility of it then Saturnus - however I am not a moderator that has to give the illusion of impartiallity. As a moderator you have to hold yourself to a higher standard in order to enforce and rule on the violations of the rules by patrons. Even your statement shows that the moderators will allow themselves to be hypocritical in the enforcement of the rules. You are probably expressing an opinion because it has become obvious that I will bring it up every chance I get and because its a worthwhile discussion in my opinion - one should not allow those in a postion of authority or responsiblity to just have blanket authority or to leave them alone when they make a mistake. Bringing it up each and everytime makes it an issue that you can either chose to ignore - or to at least discuss the merits of each case and decide to discount the instance or take some type of corrective action when it is determined that a moderator might have abused his authority or his position.

So until Tosa asks me to leave it alone - I will bring it up wether it be Saturnus, you or anyother moderator that I think has overstepped their bounds in moderating. You can either discount it - or you can even prevent me from posting - however until then I will mention it and your own words Tito shows that you know that I just might be right. Once again in bold to sink the point home.

In fact, later in the same thread Redleg & Kafir Chobee engage in the same conduct that you, Redleg, have the gall to pillory Saturnus for.

So you will just have to excuse mr as I laugh my rear end off because I find it just to funny when a moderator demonstrates that they do not want to hold the moderators accountable for their conduct especially when the same moderator happens to understand the point very well indeed. The hypocrisy is just well to damn funny.

[JAG]

The line you quote does not prove any of your claims -

The whole point is that what Sat said is not in breach of the rules which you seem to think he is. He thus has nothing to apologise or be troubled by, but by Tito's statement he was stating that you actually did break the rules you are trying to pin on Sat. Thus the statement - In fact, later in the same thread Redleg & Kafir Chobee engage in the same conduct that you, Redleg, have the gall to pillory Saturnus for.

Nothing hypocritical or admittance of wrong doing there.

[A.Saturnus]

This is not a defence speech. Tosa knows the facts and I trust his decision. I only want to give a policy information. There seems to be a confusion what is personal and what not.
Let´s take examples:

the picture you draw above is ridiculous

In this sentence an adjective with negative connotation (ridiculous) is attributed to a subject (the picture). This can be called harsh criticism, but it is surely criticism of an impersonal object. Note that it is of course possible that the author has negative feelings about the person he speaks to, but that cannot be implied from the sentence. Any interpretation that the intend of that sentence was to criticise things or people beyond the content of a post, is far-reaching. Therefore, disregarding member status, this kind of behaviour is ok.

In contrast to this:

I suggest you learn to read before accusing someone of propaganda

It is not far-reaching to assume that the author wants to imply that his opponent cannot read, because otherwise it wouldn´t make sense. Making such an assumption about another person is obviously negative and personal.

What an angry little attempt at a propaganda spin from the hateful and angry liberial democratic left

Again, to make sense of this sentence "hateful and angry" have to be attributed to the opponent of the author and not the content of his post. Extremely negative and, of course, personal.

You truely are buying into the hateful propaganda of the democratic party - especially since you often spew it out on this forum.

Well, we don´t need to explain how that´s personal, do we? It´s sole purpose is to be personal, since it adds nothing to the discussion at all.

the individual who believes everything that the hateful liberal democratic party spins out

That´s not only personal, it makes very far-reaching and generalizing assumptions about the person in question on the basis of a few posts seen on a gaming forum.

This kind of behaviour is not ok!

Those are of course extreme examples since they are in gross violation of the forum rules, but I hope you still get the picture.

[Devastatin Dave]

"the individual who believes everything that the hateful liberal democratic party spins out"

That´s not only personal, it makes very far-reaching and generalizing assumptions about the person in question on the basis of a few posts seen on a gaming forum.

This kind of behaviour is not ok!

Those are of course extreme examples since they are in gross violation of the forum rules, but I hope you still get the picture.

LOL, and we know that you never allow liberals or leftists make any negative genaralizations of Americans, Republicans, or conservatives and when you see this, you take immediate action to ensure that you are bringing and unbiased aproach to your moderation of the Backroom.

And yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Sorry Redleg, the mods have circled the wagons, your posting to deaf ears. So much for tolerance and free thought huh? I guess its ok only if it passes the "global test".

I guess I won't be allowed to post or view the Watchtower along with my perminant expulsion from the Backroom now!!!

[Orda Khan]

I agree whole heartedly with Tito. It always amazes me how some people seem to want to live their lives constantly bleating on about the rights and wrongs of any subject. These same people are the ones who sow discord where ever and when ever they can. This whole thing was just trouble causing, maybe they look for some importance that they feel they are due but in my humble opinion this whole issue has become a joke. If one wants a forum where insults such as those used in the original thread are the norm, go look elsewhere and close the door when you leave. Nobody will miss you

.....Orda