The Siskinies

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Quote[/b] ]Hello, have the develepers tryed the game themselves?

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No comment......................

CZoF

[Brianbbj]

sorry hehe, it was not meant to offend anybody, im just wondered what changed so much from beta version 2.1 to which had a fair level of Rebellion.

sorry again, i think i was in a bad mood when writing the message, becouse i lost yet another game to the super rebels.

[Zanderpants]

Yeah, a report on wht the new version changes would be really nice. Or a list of things that aren't fixed yet so we know what would be needless to report. We know you guys are really busy with it though, so yeah, just commenting.

[Zanderpants]

woohoo New version Can't wait.

[komninos]

Hi all,

I am really in shortage of spare time so this is going to be a quick one.
1. Heavy rebellions did happen at these time but it might be over done in the game and in the mod. So check your provinces and see what is happening. There are a number of buildings that decrease the rebellious level. If you still have problems with the rebels go to the startpos directory and edit the Hellenic files. In the province attributes the last province has a huge income. I have decreased it to 2000 if you have the older version it should be 10000.
2. Unfortunately I can’t make it to have what I wonted to have ready for today and most probably I will not be able during the weekend but I will try to be ready some time next week. It will include a small surprise plus a fix for the rebel army composition.
3. If you still see problems that were there in the previous version and they slipped unnoticed, it would be very helpful if one of you could summaries them in a small list on Tuesday.

Thank you all.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

TO ALL TESTERS

OK Gentlemen the new test version of HTW v3.1 is up,check your mailboxes and good hunting

CZoF

[BarkingBeagle]

Downloading now... Will post when I've had a chance to test. I took on a night job a couple of days ago, so I don't have as much time as I once did... still, I'll find some time.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Normally all testers should have recieved my mail if people on the list didn't get his,contact me ASAP to get the mail with instructions and links.

Updated test assignment:

These are the factions that are assigned to the Beta-Testers:

-Maul/Element UK/Blind King of Bohemia:General Testing

-Lord Xelous/Scipio/Thoros of Myr:Atheneans
-Lord BloodyGore/Frodo Lives:Beotians
-Jacko_UK/Nicholas Newinsky III:Macedonians
-Lord Uxbridge/Element UK:Lydians
-BorisPavlovGrozny/Psyco:Persians
-Brianbj/BarkingBeagle:Thessalians
-Nomad/Omegamann:Thracians
-Mzocker/Zanderpants:Corinthians
-Blind King of Bohemia/King Azzole:Spartans(Lakedemonians)
-Blackrogue/Crown of Swords:Peoneans
-Alogic/Gustavo Garriguet:Illyrians
-Boudicea/Insolent 1:Argians
-Octavian/Stu:Phrigians
-HobbyGeneral/Youone:Aetolians

Lordz will only test if they have the time for it.

King Azzole stick with the Spartans.

Gustavo Garriguet is new and i assigned you to the Illyrians.

Maul,Element UK and Blind King of Bohemia will do the general testing and evaluation of the projectiles,unitprod,buildprod and other files that they feel like.

We are getting closer to the public release so please have a good cracker


CZoF

[youone]

Thanks I'm DL new version now will work on that rebel thing Haven't had it yet so will change the way I play regards buildings, spy's etc.small note I like the way Phrigian archers kneel when they let loose their arrows great little touch that makes this mod (game) WELL GREAT
I agree the unit size is alot better with the alterd Hellenic_unit_prod2 file.I've played the Persians for a bit ,do people find the lack of good generals, although you do have large resources a drawn back
Also is the LydianHVYInf been given a bad deck of cards seems all to easy to over run them by the greeks
komninos
Look forward to your small surprise ,but knowing your surprise's IT'S going to be a big one

[Brianbbj]

Im glad that the Rebel problem is being taken care of, lets see if the Lydians have been reviewed...

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

King Azzole wrote:

Quote[/b] ]After a vicious but very one sided war with the Illirians thanks to Greek superiority in tactics (and a good commander me ) the Illirians where smashed forever But the Thracians shortly thereafter attacked me with a force of 8000 men against a small unprepared macedonian force of 1500 men and Macedon prevailed Many good men where lost that day, but the entire macedonian army of 4500 men swung east to meet the new threat that had smashed my other peaceful neighbors, the Peonians. With the Illirian tribal lands and people supporting macedon now, the army of 4500 was quickly raised to a mighty force of 6000, and good thing, cause very shortly therafter a massive 12000 Thracians invaded. After a very bloody and rainy battle, 2000 macedonians lay dead on the field and a whopping 7000 Thracians lay dead. This was the turning point in the macedon/thrasian war. Seeing my country in despair, the Aetolians send an expenditiary force of 2000 men to secure southourn provences to aid in the defeat of the barbarians. Soon thessaly sent a force as well. macedon drove deep, almost to Byzantios itself. But the Aetolians had smashed there eastern front while we the macedons smashed there western front. In one last sad stand, 8000 greek warriors faced 9000 Thracians with Thessaly sending 500 men to assist. Thrace was destroyed and its lands divided among macedon and aetolia. War still raged between the (hittites?) Phrygian and lydians in asia minor. Both fielding massive armys, as the greeks slowly attempted to chip away provences here and there. But then sadly, after 40 years of peace between the greeks, the Beoteons attacks the Aetolians. The kingdoms of greece were divided on who to support. At first greed drove me to side with the beoteons, thinking I could take a weakened Aetolian lands. But when I saw the army of beotia march into Aetolia itself, I turned sides, sending a force of 5000 men to remove beotia from the Aetolian home city. They agreed to leave peacefully, but a fierce naval conflict arose. macedonia, with its superior drieres, overcame the beotean penticores and naval superiority was obtained... Now macedon ponders its next move... Does it slaughter its fellow greeks for more power? Or face the barbarian threat in asia minor and just try and keep the peace between the greeks in the meantime? Stay tuned...

CZoF

[youone]

When playing the Persians I noticed that when I flanked a CL_Hoplite formation and hit them from behind ie charged them, with the ind elephant's the damage wasn't has great Has you think it would be.
Any formation hit from behind should receive a shock A hoplite formation with their long spears should find it very difficult to respond and with a great big fat mass of elephant breathing down your neck it should even make these elite troops break formation and take heavy losses
What's the opinion from others on this WILD CARD

[youone]

Reading the Aetolians history at the begining of the classical era.
The Aetolians sided with the Romans which it says" Availabilty as- allies some Roman units to Aetolia for game play"
which xtra units do the Aetolians have.

[Zanderpants]

Youone:
I agree, Hoplites in general are too strong. I've flanked them with elephants, chariots, hoplites, polemistes, hippies, and akondistes and they usually still beat both units that were engaged with them. However, I don't think that the creators can implement the weakness of a phalanx at it's sides and back very well and still keep the really strong front. I do think that Elephants should be charged up a bit. Maybe boosting their charge bonus since they would have a rather brutal charge. The boosting their melee stat a bit since they would deal out horrific damage tosing their heads from side to side. Then lower their defence bonus a bit and they already have pretty bad moral and you're set.

[youone]

Zanderpants
Thanks I don't normally alter stats but on this occasion I believe the xtra charge bonus would make the out come of an elephant hit from behind more realistic"Maybe boosting their charge bonus since they would have a rather brutal charge. also boosting their melee stat a bit since they would deal out horrific damage tossing their heads from side to side. Then lower their defense bonus a bit and they already have pretty bad moral and you're set."


I started a new game with the new update
quick things I've noticed
Light toxotes ,two year build is this a change to make the AI choose less archers if so I agree "good"
Yficratian hopliton massage couldn.t translate
I believe the economic values maybe two high at turn 468 I had 64954 gc with a large high quality troop count I had also taken the states of Aeniania ,which is a must if your playing the aetolians also phocis,
Athens had being over run by the Illirians in turn 473 there seem to have vasts amounts of large stacks of armies everywhere at this early point.
Enjoying the mod
Keep it coming

[Frodo Lives]

I wonder if marriage is some of the reason why we get so many rebellions in the game. I usually accept any marriage proposal from other factions. So when my king dies, normally there is a small chance that some of my countries will join that country from which my blushing bride came from. Except instead of those countries joining that faction I instead get a rebellion on them.


Another thing? I noticed the priests and holy men are missing. Are they coming back or are they gone for good?

[youone]

[B]Frodo Lives
That's a good point you've raised, I always have refused these marriage proposal from other factions,I always build up a spy net work with 2 or more spy's in each state along with watch towers and boarder forts.
When I get warnings of disloyal generals I either put them on trial and killed them off or just send an assassin to do the job failing that I send the whole unit on a suicide invasion and kill it off ,sometimes if you buy back the general his loyalty increases and dread decreases.
I'll will accept more marriage proposal from other factions and see if the rebels raise their heads

[King Azzole]

Sorry for not posting my story results in this thread.

Sorry about not playing the lakedemonians, I tried them on an earlier version and it was very hard and frustrating. Ill do my best to see how it goes with them now.

I love so far how the greek nations concentrate more on killing the foreigners than eachother. Sure war does erupt among greek kings but for the most part greeks defend eachother very nicely. Very nice coding

[Maul]

ROYAL_PALACE

If this building is suppose to provide valor bonus for units (all produced in province I suppose since there are no units which requires it) then it does not. But there is work around. Following description was originally prepared for VICTORY_SQUARE from NTW mod but it deals with the very same problem so I quote it here.

Quote[/b] ]First of all Victory Square has to be TROOP_PRODUCER. Its troop upgrade capabilities have to be set to UPGRADE_VALOUR(n) (this one is obvious isn’t it?). Then when you want to make it add valor bonus to for example LightInfantry just change building requirements for LightInfantry
form {INFANTRY_TROOP_DRILL,GUNSMITH2}
to {INFANTRY_TROOP_DRILL,GUNSMITH2, VICTORY_SQUARE}, {INFANTRY_TROOP_DRILL,GUNSMITH2} (take note of order of requirement sets its important). And that’s all. Now, when Victory Square is present LightInfantry gains valor bonus.

Remarks:
1. Only one bonus can be applied by single structure so Victory Square cannot provide valor bonus and morale bonus at the same time.
2. First level MTW TROOP_PRODUCER buildings, for some reason, are not expected to provide valor bonus so no relevant info is displayed in info panel. But structure works correctly anyway.
3. This method has one disadvantage. Original structures required to produce given unit reports ability to build this unit twice.

But if ROYAL_PALCE is not suppose to provide any bonuses then please remove UPGRADE_VALOUR(n) function to disable confusing info in info panel.



And another one found when digging into ROYAL_PALACE

[Mead Hall_desc]
{As the city grouse the market grouse with it. The Stoa makes its appearance since the merchants in the market need a permanent place. These large buildings house a number of shops bat also taverns and places for discussions. Grate teachers’ come in these places to find new students. Many Philosophical schools were connected to a specific Stoa.}

Shouldn’t it rather be:

[Mead Hall_desc]
{As the city grows the market grows with it. The Stoa makes its appearance since the merchants in the market need a permanent place. These large buildings house a number of shops but also taverns and places for discussions. Grate teachers’ come in these places to find new students. Many Philosophical schools were connected to a specific Stoa.}

Cheers
Maul

[Antalis::]

Is it possible, that someone also test the persians?

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Maul,you haven't been assigned to any faction yet,so if you want go for the Persians we need some more feedback than we get from our current testers.

CZoF

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Sorry about not get backing with much info boys but i will. Just been rushed off the old feet at the moment. I'll do some stuff this evening and report back tomorrow

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

To all testers

As the public release date is getting nearer,i'me currently updating and preparing the HTW website so i have a nice task for you guys.

I need nice screenshots of the HTW start-up screen,Campaign map,Historical Battle/Campaign screen,Battles,landscapes and so on...

So be artistic for a change

In game pictures are taken pressing F2 on the keyboard.
They will be stored in your HTW maindirectoty in the TGA map.

Send them as JPEG's please:use IrfanView or whatever program you like to convert the TGA's to JPEG's.

The most beautifull ones will be used for the screenshot section on the HTW website,so go and be an artist and create HTW beauty

Thanks,

CZoF

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I can definetly do that geez

[Omegamann]

Tested the hwhole day with the thracians on Geometric hard:
Found these Bugs:

High Rebelion Factor in Thracian main Province makes for a hard startup.
Heirs are Thracian romphaia Cavalery
First Heirs are Twins.
Thracian Units still called Thrasian.
Rebel Leaders have Viking portraits
My Corinthian Ally had a Viking Portrait
MiniMap became disclored after accepting marriage
Ships produced in Aegospotamos appear in the northern Aegean not in the Propontis

Completion messages
Buts show Bowyer Picture
Fortified village show stockade picture and text
Bowyer and Spearmaker show Trading Post picture

I also wrote up a rather long narrative account of my game so far. Should I post it here or in the story forum?

[Antalis::]

No, post your story here please

[Maul]

What a damn waste. Arhon Alkaleos has just talked his fellow Athenians to vote for spreading wisdom of democracy over whole Mediterranean and then such blow from almighty Gods… Bah and next day he finds himself King of Persia

No faction description for Persians when starting campaign.
There seam to be general problem with too long descriptions for Persian units (descriptions do not fit into info panel). I noticed Phrigian Warband, Phrigian Archer, Kardakes, Persian Archers, Immortals, Persian Skythed Chariots, Persian Royal Guards, Persian Horce Archers (sic Horce – Are you using some kind of stylish / ancient tongue which I do not know and can not find in any dictionary? Please, please answer me because I found more of these and do not know if I should report.)

All descriptions for ROYAL_COURT chain of buildings are standard descriptions from original MTW and as such do not fit into HTW.

Cheers
Maul

[komninos]

Hi all,

Thanks for the effort.
Something will arrive soon with some of the fixes ...
There is one thing that pisses me off the Thracian leader unit does NOT follow the time pattern placed for it for some reason the leader unit gets the High, Late unit in Early and then it get the early ... can’t understand why I think the only solution is to follow the path ... if you can’t bit them join them so I might make the Thracian with both cavalry units.
Many buildings don’t give many things to the cause BUT they do wonders on keeping your population as quiet as possible ... remember the money production buildings have a need for more slaves More slaves means more trouble.

[Brianbbj]

GAME BALANCE:
I think there is one thing who really is different in HTW from MTW, talking game-play, and this is length of the campaign, HTW takes MUCH MUCH MUCH longer to win.
I don't know yet if i like it.

The new test version from this weekend is much better thanks, Persians now beat the Lydians in the east, but i usualy takes some time, which is good, and keeps both faction occupied, much better balance on this.

BUT i think that when the Persians have conquered the east, they get to over powered, and then i have the same problem as with the Lydians. (but still better then before)

THE LANDS IN THE EAST:
I would sugject that the lands in the east would be
down-graded a little, i don't know if the lands historical was poorer, but a money fix would proberly help a little.
I think the main problem is that the Persians (as with the Lydians before), get way to much isolated lands and then have peace and quite to built up a large army. maybe they should have harder chosing the sea for a way of conquest?

STILL TOO MUCH REBELLION IN THE END GAME:
And there are still to much rebellion in the end game, better then before this weekends update, but not fixed yet.
Problem is when the greek faction take over provinces with a different culture. As i understand you can make building who reduce the rebels ans such, and i have been edition a little tonight, and setting everything on the lowest level, BUT in the endgame, there are still way more Rebebelion then in the original Medieval game.
I had even had rebelion in my "homelands" ie. my starting provinces.
I is beginning to think that giving the rebels this "dummy" province, is what somehow gives them strength, ie. giving them some uncontrolled extra "Rebel uprising power".
In my next campaign i think i will delete the dummy faction from the startpos file, i hope the game will work still.
BTW whay are the sugjected garrison size?

TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO THINKS HOPLITES ARE TO STRONG:
I was maybe thinking the same, BUT after being over-crowed by the east so many times, i don't think so.
BUT a possible fix would maybe be to not having a hoplite unit have 6 supporting ranks, many 5 i enough, and this will weakend the hoplites a little, maybe enough.?

THE ELEPHANT PROBLEM:
I also think that the elephants have too little charging power, as many people have sugjested a better chargeing ability, maybe this is the answer or maybe:

What about giving the War-Elephants
Supporting Ranks? I think this would work real nice to simulate the large herds of stampeding elepants.

Maybe this also will give the chariots that extra punch, if they get a single supporting rank?

Why aren't Elephants Armour piercing BTW?
Where they not the counter-weapon against the heavy armoured Infantry?, which ability would suit them better then this?.

I would like the Developers to comment my Elephants idea, PLEASE, i'm one of those guys who like to see that you really read what we write.

PS: i think that making the units larger was a good idea, makes the game much more visualy better
PPS: sorry for yet another large post.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Quote[/b] ]Are you using some kind of stylish / ancient tongue which I do not know and can not find in any dictionary?

Rosacrux is doing a survey of all the descriptions,so these will be fixed.Yes indeed the style that has been used is very special it is Komenglish a very ancient language indeed

Kom:i love you M8

CZoF