The Siskinies

[Antalis::]

Yes I also think that rebellious is too much.

I think we should reduce it to most provinces to 0 and only some to 1 and very rare to 2 in the startposes.txts.

And yes, in my opinion too the elephants should be a bit stronger in charging.

[Antalis::]

btw: If you have any nice pics of battles or anything else you could also post them too in the Engineers guild (and send also many to Count zimoa of Fl) in the official HTW thread as eye candys

You could use Image Dumb for posting your screens.


Show the exitest moments of your campaigns, battles.

[komninos]

OK guys ... I am a dyslectic ... whit a profound hate for anything that resembles text and spelling ... but I sat and made these descriptions while trying hard not to make an ass of my self ... you don’t have to bit me with a stick every time you see them

Please If any of you English Speaking can help Rosa then please do fixing text can be a pain in the b...

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Geezers remember english ain't these boys first language, they have worked tremendously hard at making an ENTIRE different game. I like the balance that even a land power like sparta can't always get there own way due the smaller factions having better navies and raid behind your main front.

[Maul]

I’m terribly sorry if anyone feels offended. And I really mean that. I’m not a native English speaker myself and I was just curious. Since I can pretty easily give you examples of words and phrases from my native language which you won’t find in most dictionaries I’m sure you can do the same with your native tongue. Descriptions and other texts in HTW are written in pretty smooth English and I do not have any trouble reading and understanding them myself. Why shouldn’t I presume they were written by someone who knows Shakespeare’s language much better than me? And on the other hand haven’t you asked to hunt for bugs and errors?

But once again I ask you humbly dear komninos to accept my apologies if you feel offended.

Cheers
Maul

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Hey mate i weren't really refering to you post. Apologies are never needed in the dungeon, its the mad places like the tavern you need them

[King Azzole]

I think the trick to this game is constant attack. but not just random attacking, its selective attacking that enables you to win faster. For instance. my first game was playing as the Macedonians. I immediately the 1st turn attacked my neighbor to the west, then the illirians took the provence to my north. I then attacked them the next turn. I beat them back, and made an alliance with my southern neighbors Thessaly. I then waged a swift and brutal war with Illiria. After taking the 6 or 7 provences from them, I had enough money and heres the important part; land to produce enough soldiers to make my armys large fast.

You see the trick to the game is to build up armys fast. Regular battles consist of 8000-10000 vs sometimes 15000 to 20000 men. I am currently playing as Sparta, and Here is the story.


Sparta is a proud nation, and a good ally to its close neighbor, Argos. Corinthia and Argos have fought many wars in the past, and Sparta has shed much blood beside Argos for a long time. But peace stood in greece for awhile now, but a storm was brewing in the east. The Hittites in the east are now in vicious warfare with the Persians, a new threat from the far east.

Persia is a mighty nation, its empire vast. Its large armys seem to be invincible to all that behold them. But Sparta and the rest of Greece have evolved in warfare. Skirites have replaced the Akondistes of old. And the mighty Enamotia Hopliton riegns supreme in Greco warfare. The Spartans produced a mighty warrior indeed, the Spartan Enamotia Hopliton. Trained from A very young age to be warriors they are probobly the most elite soldiers the world has ever seen.

Sparta decided to smash the cretans and the Arhon himself lead the attack. The east Cretans fled to the west leaving the land totally to the Spartans. But then the Spartans pushed East, and a force of 1800 Spartans fought valiantly against the 1875 Cretans. The Cretans were smashed. Sparta immediately planned her next move. The Lydianswereinveciouswarfare to the east, and the macedons started there war with the Illirians to the north. deciding to assist the macedons, Spartan dieres destroyed illirians ships everywhere.

But then suddenly the entire Lydian navy attacked Spartan ships. Sparta fought desperately with the huge Lydian navy. All Spartan allies remained nuetral, fearing the sinking of there ships. The Spartan king was trapped as well on the isle of Crete. Sparta immediately moved to produce the mighty Trieres. Slowly, the tide of naval warfare was turned on the Lydians. Until at last Crete was free and a lane was open to southern asia minor. Sparta attacked the underbelly of the Lydians, headed by the brave Arhon. The Arhons son, a mighty warrior and extremely deadly combatant, lead another force of 2000 spartans against the back of the Illirians. The Lydians retreated without a fight from the Spartans and the Lydian force of 4000 was was destroyed. Stay tuned for more on the Spartans

[King Azzole]

Quote[/b] (komninos @ June 20 2004,04:25)]OK guys ... I am a dyslectic ... whit a profound hate for anything that resembles text and spelling ... but I sat and made these descriptions while trying hard not to make an ass of my self ... you don’t have to bit me with a stick every time you see them

Please If any of you English Speaking can help Rosa then please do fixing text can be a pain in the b...

Sorry i know I offered to help fix these texts but I do not understand how to edit them. If someone could explain fully how to access the places the text are in I will assist with it.

[King Azzole]

If your gonna make the elephants super powered with supporting ranks and davestating charges then make them expensive to upkeep or that is all one will build.

[Brianbbj]

ofcouse should elephant's cost be so that they one are the main troops, in the real world they where used, so they must have had a importent role in the army, or else then then the different commanders would not have had the trouple with the elephants.
Remeber that elephant's still in the game suffer hard from outflanking and quickly being surrounded, as weel as shooting.

And i can fully agree that the game is all about attacking constantly. but in the end the game is all about having enough provinces, so you can out-built your enemy's army,
a thing i really don't like in the mod.

In the old Medieval TW, you could also grow strong and survive by not being super aggresive, and in the old game, having most provinces did not equal you was winning.
ofcourse having many provinces was good, but many poor, undeveloped provinces was worth nothing.

I think it all to to with the money flow in the mod, i like that th3e developers try to make money less importent.

----------------------
Now for something different:

Does anyone know what in the game trickers Rebelions?,
Im not talking about having no garrison and such, i have been seeing that even good developed provinces with a full garrsion and some full stacks beside it, rebels suddenly, even if they had been controlled for 20 years or more.

[Omegamann]

Ok here is my story (Thracian Geometric Hard):
The Thracian King Bendidora knew he was destined to unite his people.
An oracle had told him that he would conquer the northern hills, the eastern plains and the southern islands, lands that only few thracians had seen before.
His people were always regarded as fearsome mercenarys and hardy fighters, both on horseback and on foot.

He knew his peoples love for gold just as he knew their love for freedom. Until know the Tribes had contended only in fighting among themselves and for foreign powers, raiding and plundering had been their profession, never conquering never being conquered.

But this was about to change. Without unity his people had led the Peonians in the west grow strong and Dorians had started to build colonies in the fertile lowlands, driving his people to the hills.
The only way to prevent his people from being subjugated would be to unite and drive the foreigners from their soil.

Then the doors to conquest would swing open, because united noone could stand against a race such favoured by Ares.

But first Bendidora had unite the tribes under his rule.
So taking his best Peltast and leaving the Warbands at home to quell any treachery by another nobel family while he was an campaign he raided his neighbors in Avdera. Beating them on the field he proceeded to burn the village of their leader and put all his adversaries to the sword.
This show of strength cowed and subjugated the thracian tribes in tis area, but the insidous Dorian colonists where not so easily impressed. They marched against Bendidora with their holites, and brought even their slaves to fight the Thracian conqueror.
The Dorians would learn a bitter lesson. Their slow Hoplites being decimated by showers of Thracian Javelins and their slaves brought down by hails of slingstones, the whole Dorian army was eventualy brought down in a bitter meele, and routed from the field.
King Bendidora didnt hesitate to plunder the Dorian colony and execute the whole of the rebels.
Meanwhile the Macedonians had conquerd the province of Mygdonia, and the Peonians had subjugated the Tribes of Serdica and the northern mountains.
Knowing that he would need the Avderian tribes to supply him with warriors, and hoping that his strong western neighbors would not dare to attack his weakend heartlands, Bendidora took only very little tribute in the conquerd Province, while more and more warriors flocked to his side.
When the Thessailians tried to conquer the tribes of Aegospotamos, just as Bendidoras two twin sons had come of age, he rushed to their aid and routed the Thessailians raiding party althoug they tried to bar him the bride across a broad river.
Fearing his Peltatst the Thessailian general withdrew from the riverbanks around the bridge, bringing doom on his Warriors and Javeleniers. Though many of the Dorian and Ionian Leaders that had previusly offert their alliance, now took back their vows and even threatend the King. This did not interrest him as he already knew that he or his kin must come into conflict with these men in the future.
The tribes of Aegospotamos did also not show gratitude and it took the Thracian prince two whole years of raiding the hills before they were subjugated. Still the king only imposed a small tribute upon them.
The next conquest of the prince would be the Thessailian colonie in byzantion itself. Taking again the opprtunity of attacking when their main army was on an expedition to south Moesia, the frightened colonists retreated to their fortified town. As he considered an attack on such a place to be to costly, resolved again to scoure the countryside, hoping the Thessailian on the march would not return to relieve the town.
And the gods smiled upon him, because he learned that on their march back, the army had been ambushed by the local population and utterly destroyed. When the colonists in the town heard of this, they imediately proposed to surrender the city unharmed on the conditiom that they were alloed to sail back to their mother city. The prince, being to lazy to govern the foreigners allowed for this ang got hold of the city abd the harbour completely intact.
In the following years the King took a great number of peasant slingers together with a few peltasts and horsemen to the south of Moesia. Since the Tribes living there had defeated the Thessailian invaders, every man, even the peasants was well furnished with arms and armor. But as they only possesed a few archers, the King was confident in overcoming them with slings and javelins, even though he had fewer warriors than them. The fight proved to be a bloody one, as almost all horsemen fell, and only the Kings horsemen and the peltast were able to route the weakend enemy.
Possessing no fortifications southern Moesia was quickly subdued.
Shortly after his triumph the Thessailian King offert the hand of his daughter to one of the twin princes, as he was hard pressed by the Athenians and feared that the Tharcians would aid his enemys, as by now Thracian merchant and warships were sailing the Aegean.
Knowing that it would be foolish not to accept this gesture of friendship King Bendidora accepted.
After this the King not only took Moesia from the Peonians, but also aided his new Thessailian ally twice by landing his Warriors on the shores of the besieged Thessailia. And both times the Athenian general found it more prudent to withdraw than to give battle.
Meanwhile the Thracian fleet had begun to grow and great ships of war were now able to stand up to the ships of Athens, while the Merchants plied their trade across the northern Aegean and along the shores of the Euxenian Sea, bringing great wealth to the Thracian People.
Hoping to aquire a powerfull ally the bothe the Lydian King and the Leader of Athens tried to persuade the King to break treaty with his longtime allys the Phrygians and the Thessailians respectively, the Athenian leader even offering his daughter in marriage.
Finding the Lydians hard pressed by there enemys and the Atheninas too powerfull at sea to be a trustworthy ally King Bendidora declined these offers.
When the Thessailian King was a thrid time besieged by the Athenians and King Bendidora again came to his aid, finaly the Athenian General thought himself stron enough to give battle.
King Bendidora, knowing the strength and weaknesses of the peltasts and slingers he had brought with him, let the blocks of Hoplites engage and held the enemy toxotes and akonistas back with his slingers.
When he had positioned himself and his peltasts on the right flank of the battle he drove the light troops of the athenians back and swung around to harras the Athenian enomotias from behind, whlie keeping thier lighter troops under a constant hail of slingstones.
Once the Thessailians broke the Athenian Enomotias the King himslef persued and capture the routing Hoplites. He als managed to almost capture the enemy Ptolemiste General once he began to withdraw. But the General was able to escape with his Leutenant.
Back at home the King proudly witnessed the comming of age of his fourth son, who was not only a great and natural leader, but also of keen mind and spirit, and immediately let him and his first born attack the Peoninas in Eso Moesia and Serdica respectively. After vanquishing the Peoninans in the field both princes commenced with a siege.
The villages of Serdica were taken by storm, but in Eso Moesia the Peonian King tried to relieve his garrison. This brought about his death at the hands of the valiant prince Byzo. Meanwhile the Illyrians had attacked the last stronghold of the Peonians and thus the Peonian Tribes were scattered and soon forgotten.
Prince Byzo showed mercy on the people of Eso Moesia counceling with them for almost five years before they were ready to become the Tharcians vassals.
King Bendidora used the time to develop his city, and build great hillforts in all strategic locations. Only once did he come to the aid of his Phrygian allys and with the help of a great army of Corinthan mercenarys the Lydians were routed from the field.
he Athenians had finaly managed to conquer Thessallia without a fight, and being offten the victim of Thracian Pirates the Athenian Leader begged for an end of hostillities. Generously King Bendidora accepted.
Shortly thereafter, when the Agraians clashed with the Phrygians, the King had to chose wich ally he would favour.
On account of the Phrygians not showing on the field when the KIng came to their aid, he chose the Agraians and prepared to attack the northern shores of Phrygia.
- and thats only till 130
- especialy I enjoyed the battles were I was the supporting ally for an hoplite army - thats the typical role of the Thracians in history.
- for a short time starting I had some problems with garrisoning my provinces, as with the new startpos the Tharcians dont have enough troops to hold on to the very rebellious provinces of the north, and I had to leave myself wide open to attack from the Peoninas and Macedonians
- money wasnt realy a problem, because with the trading income from my fleet I get more money than I can spent.

[Omegamann]

After the loong story know a short impression:
The Thracian cavalery problem should be solved with splitting the cav in light and heavy cavalry.
I did some reading up on the Thracians (I guess you also found http://www.thrace.0catch.com as a source)
and although the romphaia only came into use around 200 BC the use of curved swords from horseback is documented from the earliest sources.
I dindt look at the stats, but I have the impression that the renowned thracian cavalry is not so tough as it should be. But maybe thats only because I had to fight the even more renowned Lydian Cav a lot.
I dint use Light Chariots so far, as in the test I did with them I didnt find them very usefull except skimrishing with hoplite armys. As there doesnt seem to be a documented use of chariots by the Tharcians since the bronce age, they could be replaced by strong heavy cav.
From an aesthetical point of view I would like to have my peltast looking like real Thracians (like the rhompaias) and the rhomphaias using oval celtic shields. (maybe something for V4.)
I also think the warbands/tribesmen/slingers look a little to much like barechested barbarian trouserwearers. I think the image is great, but would be better used for celtic warriors (Celtic Invasion anyone?)
Maybe giving them a phrygian cap or an Illyrian helmet would make them better fit into the period (just my oppinion, nothing critical)

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Units:

Been playing macedonian and my hopilites are simply being tore apart by thracian romphemorie(sp?) do you think they should be toned down a little? because they end my armies lives very quickly.

[Zanderpants]

I disagree BrianBBJ. I've held all of Southern Greece (Lakedemonia, Messenia, Elis, Corinthia, Argolis, that province on the south-east tip between Lakedemonia and Argolis), as well as all three of the Eastern islands, and I've been set like that for close to 75 turns with no problems. I make enough money through trade that I can support large enough armies so as to deterr any attackers other than Persians or Lydians, on account of their massive numbers, with a decent surplus to continue training or building. So no, it's not about having lots of provinces, though it is about having a large income somehow, which is exactly like MTW, it was all about the money.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Lets be fair about the elephants. They are balanced to how they were. Apart from a few battles historically in which they caused havoc in the enemy lines that was it. When they got bogged down and surrounded thats murder she wrote for them.

I just think a better charge bonus but i think its pretty high anyway.

[youone]

Certainly raised many opinions on the elephants
I find the main purpose of this wild card is to screen the foes horse since the horse feared the elephant. bad smell and all,
The xtra charge thing was suggested because It is hard to near impossible to make a rear attack realistic with the strong formations such as hop's I don't know if you can alter the stats to archive this, so it might be best to leave alone,
I've try my self with the increase charge AND yes it destroys the Heavy inf formations.
I've played many battles in custom with elephants and find it all to easy to kill them off with the peltasts skirmishers etc which is closed to being realistic ,one of the reasons elephants where finally dropped by generals.
On the rebels
I now except marriage proposals and yes I've being over run by rebellion after rebellion,This looks like a mayor player in uprising's any opinions from others on this
does your rebellions fall or increase stay the same when excepting proposals.
I still find playing the aetolians you must take Aeniania
for the metalsmith has in MTW the English had to hold and take Spain for the weapon upgrades or you wouldn't be around for the long bow
I like the update version not to many ships ,archers hippies,The disloyal generals is properly true to history ,but I'm not sure if it helps the game, that's one for the designers to decide.
also on the rebellions Sparta was know to teach even it's young that slaves where low lives so yes I agree if you build buildings that require lots of slaves you must except that one day you will have back arce I'm still loving this game hopefully I will sort this pics thing and send some great pics
For now I copied the disc file into word and just spel checked it , English version of course

Keep it coming

[Omegamann]

On the rhomphaia:
I didnt have much opportunity to use them so far as I have tested the Geometric Age mostly until now.
But form my experiences (with the previous update) these guys are the only troops of the Thracians that can hurt an Hoplite unit in meele. All other troops are only usefull in showering the slow phalanx with missiles and backing away when attacked.
That said I will test head to head confrontations with the different hoplites today using only rhomphaia.
If they can win in an frontal fight, they are realy to strong, but if they need to outnumber and flank the hoplites, taking heavy casualtys I would think thats okay.
On Income:
Historicaly most fighting in this region was not to conquer land, but to hold onto the best trading places on both sides of the Aegean. So I think the income situation is okay.
I am not sure I like the AI building so little ships, as it uses them very poorly and my Thracian navy didnt have much trouble to drive the Athenains from the northern Aegean.
- Got the new update will beginn with a new campaign then to try out the new startpos.

[Maul]

After HTW v3.1 Beta update2 Persians have three different faction colors on strategic map:
*orange shield
*purple banner/unit basement
*pink flag

Persian Skythed Chariots battlefield icon has green background.

[komninos]

Hi all,
I wonted to write something yesterday but after a crash I left it for today and now I have to write two pages of comments.

So lets take it from the top.
No apologies needed no offence taken ... I am a horrible speller and I don’t intend to change that ... even if I could ... since first grade every body mocked me about my spelling and I join in the fun.

===========================================================

King Azzole,
To check the Descriptions go to the Loc\Eng folder and open the Descriptions.txt.
The format is :
[System_name_desc] {“Description text”}
System_name – is the unit/building name that the system uses
Description text – is what you read and is the part that you have to change.

On the story now,
Well, Argeans (or Argives) were from the same keen as the Spartans and though Spartans used the title “Sans of Hercules” the Argive kings claimed direct decent from Hercules and so supreme over all Dorians. Argos and Sparta became the worst of enemies and remained like that till the Romans came.

Hittites are non-existent in this age. The remains of there empire to the west took the form of Phrygian Kingdom but the Kimerians (Skythic tribe) destroyed them at about 800BC. What you see of them in the game is an attempt to re built an ancient kingdom.

===========================================================

Brianbbj, I will try to compile a map of what the buildings do so you can control rebellions better. I know that the TW engine forces large rebellions near the end of the game but remember you don’t need to get 100% of the map just the Greek world around the Aegean and Ionian Sea.

===========================================================

Units
Thracians Romfeofory are too strong but I am no sure when they appeared in the battlefield ... have to tone them down a bit I think.

The problems with the selection of the Kings unit for the Thracians is totally creasy can’t understand why it happens. The solution here might be a light Thracian and heavy Thracian cavalry and finish with it.

Elephants ... yes every bodies favorite unit. It was not so at those days. The most unreliable weapon of the time was the chariot, it could lead to great victories or shamed defeat thus it was not a weapon of choice if the enemy was anything above green and totally unarmored and the ground was not favorable namely FLAT totally FLAT. The only thing that was even less reliable were the elephants. These big animals are peace loving creatures with no blood lust what so ever. To boot they are totally chicken shit compared to other animals. So to bring them to battle they had to fear their driver more than the enemy. BUT if they found some good well-trained troops they would flee. The result to that was that they caused more friendly casualties than enemy ones

To simulate this in case of a fleeing elephant all friendly units in there path should safer a big moral drop and charge attack from the elephants This is not possible with out CAs help and some coding
So I did not favor the Elephant unit and I was very skeptic with it. Non-the less I have made some changes to it, increased the attack, halved the defense and increase the charge. The support cost was also increased. I will send it after some tests.

===========================================================

The new patch that you all received has an improvement for the Gastrafetis unit, a new map, some portraits and a new unit. The newcomer is the Skythan Light cavalry. They are excellent archers and cavalry. Antalis might make a new historical campaign with the Skythans now when the Persians attempted to end the Skythan aggression. Some Greek units took part in that campaign but it failed miserably and the Persians retreated with heavy casualties. For that to be fulfilled we will need also the Heavy Skythan cavalry.


===========================================================

Maul
Well the Persian colors have changed many times ... building shields for them is not the easiest part so hold on a bit till we find what we like best

[King Azzole]

OK work has been started on fixing the spelling errors. In some places ive trimmed alittle so it fits in the text box in the game. I should be done if time permits before release. I will do my best.

[Omegamann]

As I said, I will try to test the rohmphaias today.
Though there seems to have been a big debate in the DBM crowd what this weapon was at all, it was first mentioned around 200 BC by Livy.
Still the Thracians had shorter onehanded sword with sicle licke blades beforehand, and as the rohmphaia is the most distingished weapon of the thracians I think its okay to provide them with this weapon from the classical period on.
I had a quick look at the new unit production file, and I would suggest to make all the Thracian units available as mercenaries, as that was their main occupation in this period.
The Thracian cavalry problem is indeed a strange one, but making them two different units I think would be the best solution. The smaller number of warriors in the Tharcian cav unit makes the early cav somewhat week against their Illyrian counterparts, so having the stronger and more expensive later cav available would reflect why they were known not only for their peltasts but also for their very good cavalry.
Oh and please change the dismount units:
light cav should become peltasts not Warbands
heavy cav should become rohmphaias not spearmen
I think that would make much more sense

[Omegamann]

Another thing, Castle assaults. I have the impression, that the AI doesnt use the beatifull new castle maps very well.
Anyhing bigger than a fortified village the AI just sits in the corner the longest away from you and waits while you have to take the long way round and get shot up from missiles all the way.
I have not ever seen a unit placed in the much better defended inner circles build on the hills.
Not sure if there could be done anything about this, but how do the other testers see this?
The big fortifications do also look quite empty even when full staffed by the enemy, so it might be a good idea to increase the number of troops stationable in anything bigger than a fortified village.

[Omegamann]

OK rhomphaias are to strong.
on flat ground they can take an enomotia hopliton head on without even having to throw their javelins and fight them to a draw.
Although the AI doesnt manage to keep his phalanx together, it was the same twice when I tried the same engagement on the hoplites side.
So they are definetly to strong at they cost.

[Maul]

There are some buildings which are expected to generate income but they don’t. Those are:
- INN
- TAVERN (whole chain)
- BROTHEL (whole chain)
- CHURCH (whole chain)
- CATHEDRAL
- GRAND_MOSQUE
- STADIUM (whole chain)

There are two ways to fix this problem. First, simple one is to change “Building type” from whatever it is to CATHEDRAL_INCOME. In that case income generated by listed building will be classified and listed as Cathedral Income but I can not think of reason why should it hurt.

The other solution is to add resource requirement for every listed building. Special, new resource should be added for this purpose. Something what can be called “state taxes” perhaps. Last thing is to add this new resource to every province expected to bring income from listed buildings. (When you add this resource to every province you will get solution equal to the one with CATHEDRAL_INCOME).

There is also PORT which is supposed to generate income (other than income from imports). But it seams PORT’s “Building type” (which is PORT – how strange ) can not be changed (all my attempts resulted in CTD).

Cheers
Maul

[Zanderpants]

The Eastern Ligh Cavalry spelling has changed in the new version, but it's still not correct. It's become East Ligh Cavalry. Should be Eastern Light Cavalry.
Also, the Peonean king is still called "king of kings". However, the Persian kings were known as the "king of kings".

[soibean]

Id do it... I can spot bugs and whatnot but I dont know jack about modding or changing anything in the game
so if you need some one to spot mistakes Im a pro at that

pm me if for some reason I could be of help

[Omegamann]

In the official forum Dirk had a nice idea about creating maps were the armies dont start directly in front of each other, but you have to search for them possibly being ambushed in the process.
I had some maps were the enemy did ambush me from the beginning (like hiding in a forest directly to my left wing while baiting me with some cav in the open) and I enjoyed the experience tremendously.
Maybe Antalis can get into contact with this guy.

[Antalis::]

You cannot set deployment points like in historical battles.
So this idea is impossible.
I would set such points but its more or less randomly where the armies will start.

[Omegamann]

But you can set the perimeters within which the armys can set up or cant you?
If possible you could restricting these to a smaler aera if you wanted the AI entering the battle from an exact spot.

It would also be nice to havet to actually set up on the beach, if you attack on a beach map.

I dont know how you did it but in playing the thracinans I was 'ambushed' a couple of times by the defending AI.

Basicaly it set up his horses out in the open, opposite to me, where I would expect them to be, but had its warriors hiding in a small forest almost directly to the left of my setup aera, storming out as I went to get the cavalery. On this map I even fell for the same trick twice.
But there were also other maps where the AI was hiding in this kind of way.

[Duke John]

Topic moved to the H:TW forum. The thread in the AL has been deleted...it's tough having your own subforum

Cheers, Duke John