Europa Barbarorum

[Steppe Merc]

The clothes that the Parthians wear, save the cataphracts are all pretty much based on the Persian Dynasty that Alexander killed. The Hillmen and slingers are ok as is, but the infantry should be changed. The horse archers should no way at all look as they do, rather bare headed (mabye with a hat), with long, long hair, and multi colors (as the Gauls and Scythians should be to).
The horse archers for both the Scythians and Parthians should look pretty similar, both multi colored, and more Germanic/Celtic looking skin and hair wise. Mabye some blonde units could be in there, though most should be darker haired, but not Asiatic.
I don't know to much about the Armenians save they also had Cataphracts, but I think inferior to those of Parthia.
And yes, most of those are Angus.

[Stormy]

Thanks for the info Merc. I will post some armenian units soon. It will be nice to add more provinces maybe in the future. In the Caucasia region should have new provinces like Iberia and Aghbania and if one can cut half of the Elymais from the first river to the north to the southern in game border of Elymais and that will be the new province of Characene. Corsica could be made into a future province as well as Malat ( Malta ) and ofcourse a few others in europe and anatolia will be a good add on for the future. Show us more Parthian pics good sir.. are these pictures from the osprey series ?

[Steppe Merc]

Yes, they are from the Osprey series. Sadly, it's split between the Parthians and the Sassinid Persians, so these are really the only relavent pics. I'll cruise the internet tommorow, see if I can find some more good pics.
Where did you get those other pics? Not the figures, but the art. It seems quite good...

[chemchok]

@ Stormy

I found this link and thought it might apply to your Assyrian argument. It also has a ceramic figurine that shows the typical riding dress of a Parthian.
the term "Parthian"

Perhaps the Assyrians were simply a portion of the Parthian empire. Oh, and the one temple picture you posted from Hatra is Hellenistic/Roman in design with local decorative techniques. It was constructed by the Parthians c. 150-200 CE.

Temple Link

[Stormy]

The smaller art pics are from dbaol.com and the bigger thracian and dacian ones are from the figurine site.

Thanks for the links, I knew something was greek/roman about the Hatra pics I posted.

Merc are you working on the scythian and soon to be added sarmatians units ?
I read something here about work groups but I dont know who they are overall. TY

[Colovion]

Here's some ideas from TWC:

Lief's Gallic Tribes

Stormy has already told him about this thread, but I thought I'd let some people form here know:

Light Infantry

Heavy Infantry

Modded by Lief. Read the thread, he talks about some other good ideas for the Gauls.

[khelvan]

That would be very good if it was a toggle button. Can you dig deeper to see if it is?

I can try, though it appears that this area is hard coded. Adding a formation such as wedge to the hastati, for instance, does not activate the "special ability" button, and so far I have not found how to do so.

The button appears to work as a toggle in the sense that the unit has two formation and simply switches back and forth based on pressing the button (square to wedge and back again), but the number available may, again, be hard coded.

Yes, but more powerfull in later periods and taking into consideration Rome's hability to recruit enourmous amount of lower quality troops in earlier periods. That was one of the characteristics that allowed them to resist Hannibal after having suffered massive defeats in battles like Lake Trasimene or Cannae.

I think this is merely a question of tweaking unit stats, and making the low quality units (rorarii, accensi, leves) cheap and readily available.

Another important aspect I've mentioned before, was the shifting of power of their armies towards Infantry, like it was Historically. Nerfing their hability to field cav and reducing the efectiveness of such cav.

I agree with this, which is why I have already mentioned some ideas for reducing the availability and power of the cavalry. Only 1/10th of the legion was cavalry, and it was normally used for ensuring the flanks were not turned and running down fleeing enemies...

Javelins maybe? I know some sources that say that the pilum was only used after the end of the First Punic War, largely inspired by the solifera (all metal heavy javelin) used by the Iberians.

I should note that the entire text I italicized came directly from Connolly, it was not my narrative. Given that Connolly's work is by far the best source of information I have found on the subject I am inclined to go with his statement that "we know" the pilum was in use at the time, though he does not name his source. What sources are you referring to?

Yes, I'm aware of the Roman tactical order of battle in Republican times as well as later during the Empire. It would be great if we could mimik those tactical topologies within the game itself. We can try to reproduce those unit proportions by manipulating the prices and trainning times, forcing the player to field an accurate army. But, can we manipulate the unit template numbers to those exact proportions, on the real-life Republican Legions?

Make me an topic-orientated scheme about the several periods of the Roman Army in the game. Sort it by unit type, tactical order of battle and unit numbers. I'll comment then.

Again, not my narrative - you asked for information on the early republican units, and I am giving it to you. If you read through what I posted you noted the differences between what Polybius describes and what Livy describes, I assume. That is, the period currently modelled in RTW and the earlier period (late 4th century) of Livy.

Perhaps it is that I have been driving for 16 hours this weekend to get to my cousin's wedding and back, but I am not sure I understand what you are looking for here. Would you please rephrase it for me?

Preciselly. Accordingly, Roman cav should be expensive, take several turns to train and be inferior to almost all others.

There is, however, the case of allied cav. The Samnites, strangely for a people that inhabited a mountainous region, had the best cav in the Italian Peninsula. They could be included in the Roman units as regional troops, right?

It seems relatively simple to make a unit only available in certain areas. At the least I know how to use a "resource" to accomplish this, though I am sure that more experienced modders (or me, with enough time) can change this directly.


Now, a different question. I see lots of people posting here with ideas, and it has been noted that people are working on various factions - have you been keeping track of this? I would love to help, and it seems to me that at this point it makes sense to start formally setting objectives, doling out work to individuals, and tracking progress. Or...it could just be my software development project manager experience making me antsy about that sort of thing. :)

[Brutal DLX]

Guys,

forget about it. There won't be any changes to the unit designs unless a community mod comes forth with such. For the moment, one would have to be thankful if the program bugs such as grouping, CTD etc are fixed, the rest will be up to the community. I believe you should have submitted your ideas about the units etc. by last year's end, spring at max, everything that came after that date would be too late to incorporate into the game. Still, it's amazing that after so much time to polish & design the game, again so many bugs in gamecontrol, AI as well as unit design are found.. I just don't understand it. The only thing that's working is the battle engine and the strategy map (not including various unit movement bugs).

Bearing in mind the patching policy by Activision for the TW prequels, my hope rests exclusively, as I said before, on the community, to try to turn this game into what it could have been.. for now, we'll just have to do with screeching women in miniskirts and topless spearmen in phalanx formation who are in the shapes of their lives when they march onto the battlefield.
Oh, and not to forget the overconfident AI generals, who are back to form of MTW1.0...
*sigh*

[PSYCHO V]

Think you've confused this with the bitch section mate ...but thanks

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Guys,

forget about it. There won't be any changes to the unit designs unless a community mod comes forth with such. For the moment, one would have to be thankful if the program bugs such as grouping, CTD etc are fixed, the rest will be up to the community. I believe you should have submitted your ideas about the units etc. by last year's end, spring at max, everything that came after that date would be too late to incorporate into the game. Still, it's amazing that after so much time to polish & design the game, again so many bugs in gamecontrol, AI as well as unit design are found.. I just don't understand it. The only thing that's working is the battle engine and the strategy map (not including various unit movement bugs).

Bearing in mind the patching policy by Activision for the TW prequels, my hope rests exclusively, as I said before, on the community, to try to turn this game into what it could have been.. for now, we'll just have to do with screeching women in miniskirts and topless spearmen in phalanx formation who are in the shapes of their lives when they march onto the battlefield.
Oh, and not to forget the overconfident AI generals, who are back to form of MTW1.0...
*sigh*

HE!HE!HE! I think you're missing the point, Freiherr Brutal DLX !!!

The EB group has decided to make a MOD for RTW. This thread now concerns itself with the Europa Barbarorum MOD for RTW.

[Brutal DLX]

Sorry, but I can't be arsed to read all these pages in my limited free time. I just gave my opinion and, truely, forgot to wish you guys good luck. There is much to fix, but you should wait for what the patch does until starting to do anything. After all, unit info should have been assembled by your members anyway, after all these months...

[The Hun]

Have you noticed the Realism mod at TW Center? It may be a good idea to pool resources and efforts rather than make 2 mods of same type. Realism mod v1.0 is really very good and v2.0 is forthcoming.
I also think that Sarmatians should dominate Scythians in that region as discussed at TW Center, just a name change I suppose

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Sorry, but I can't be arsed to read all these pages in my limited free time. I just gave my opinion and, truely, forgot to wish you guys good luck. There is much to fix, but you should wait for what the patch does until starting to do anything. After all, unit info should have been assembled by your members anyway, after all these months...

No problem! I understand.

As for waiting for a patch, there is a lot of stuff that won't be changed and can be made now, so we're just trying to save time later. When the patch is released we'll just have to make some alterations for the MOD to work with it. That is why we're concerning wourselves more with the graphical and Historical than with gameplay balance, because patches concern more with gameplay stats and bugs.

[Steppe Merc]

I also think that Sarmatians should dominate Scythians in that region as discussed at TW Center, just a name change I suppose

No. There should be the Scythians and the Sarmatians, since they were seprate people, and the Scythians were yet to be totally over run. There should be a Sarmatian and a Scythian faction, though the Sarmatians should be more powerful.

[khelvan]

Have you noticed the Realism mod at TW Center? It may be a good idea to pool resources and efforts rather than make 2 mods of same type. Realism mod v1.0 is really very good and v2.0 is forthcoming.
I also think that Sarmatians should dominate Scythians in that region as discussed at TW Center, just a name change I suppose

Yes, I was involved in that effort for a time. Frankly, they are making choices that are not realism based but gameplay based. They are making some things like some units more realistic but some things not so, so personally I much prefer the direction this community here at the .org is taking.

[The Hun]

There should be the Scythians and the Sarmatians, since they were seprate people, and the Scythians were yet to be totally over run. There should be a Sarmatian and a Scythian faction, though the Sarmatians should be more powerful.

I believe this is what I said.......??
Right now we have Scythians and we see odd Sarmatian Mercs here and there. At this time period I think the Sarmatians were the dominant of the two and because they basically overan and absorbed the Scythians maybe they should get a better fielding.

[Stormy]

Parthian 250BC-225AD


Cataphract

Cataphract ( left ) horse archer ( center )




Parthian Horse-archer


Fully Armoured Parthian Cavalry ( Merc posted one before this one. Repost )


Cataphracts


General, lionskin cloak ( nice looking indeed with the lionskin and will make a perfect mounted general replacing the eastern generic in game one )



Horse archers



Cataphract




Dailami mountain tribesman ( spear infantry unit )


Elymais archer


Armoured camel

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Yes, I was involved in that effort for a time. Frankly, they are making choices that are not realism based but gameplay based. They are making some things like some units more realistic but some things not so, so personally I much prefer the direction this community here at the .org is taking.

*Maybe we can bend them to our will!!!*

Opps!!! Got carried away...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Parthian 250BC-225AD

Armoured camel

Did this really existed? I tought that only the men were armoured, not the camels.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Have you noticed the Realism mod at TW Center? It may be a good idea to pool resources and efforts rather than make 2 mods of same type. Realism mod v1.0 is really very good and v2.0 is forthcoming.

Yes. I'm aware of their work. Very good in some areas. I don't agree in some others though. Unless there is the will and a concertated effort by both groups they will remain separate projects.

[Stormy]

I'm not sure if they existed but they are in game as we know. If anything maybe a bare camel units with an armoured unit ontop to replace the ingame parthian camel for the future could be a good idea.


Parthians 250BC-225AD

Parthian Horse Archer


Parthain Archer

[Stormy]

Armenians 300BC-428AD

Armenian Cataphract


Armenian Light Horse


Armenian Auxilia


Armenian Archer


These are like the only armenian units I found. If some posters of the forum know about more Armenian units please post them up because this is critical

[PSYCHO V]

Sorry, but I can't be arsed to read all these pages in my limited free time. I just gave my opinion and, truely, forgot to wish you guys good luck. There is much to fix, but you should wait for what the patch does until starting to do anything. After all, unit info should have been assembled by your members anyway, after all these months...

Arr Brutal... we've been giving CA unit info for years. This is NOT a recent development.

For the record, CA did actually listen to some of the suggestions and make some changes to their early unit lists. We currently have Britons, Germans and Gauls that look vaguely like they did. Initially it seems all three factions were going to get units that all looked the same with different colouring (aka the banner guy for gauls). So we commend CA for those changes.

The problem, in our humble opinion, is they didn't go far enough. That a huge opportunity was missed to make the many "barbarian" factions not only more historically correct but more visually stunning. Hence the lads have gotten together here to volunteer their time and resources to improve where-ever possible.

With the work being done by Vercingetrix on the 3D side, reconspy, Lief and khelvan, the skies the limit!

[ick_of_pick]

Here is the list of Assyrian names:


Male:
Shamshi-Adad
Ishme-Dagan
Adad-Nirari
Shalmaneser
Tukulti-Ninurta
Ashuruballit (same as Ashurbanipal)
Narsai
Eisho
Adamu
Cephas
Thaddeus
Nimrod
Sargon
Ashur
Tiglath
Atour
Marduk
Adad
Abudemio
Aram
Abel

Female:
Asu (means Asia)
Ishtar
Lilitu
Talitha
Tabitha
Nanena
Teamat
Atoria
Lilith
Abella

Heres the link to some pictures...
http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/P.../AssyrianA.htm

Ick

[ah_dut]

I had an idea about the roman levies, like rorarii and acensii (sp?) etc, how about making them mercs only hirable around roman towns? dunno if this is possible and only hireable by Romans. They would be cheap crap and plentiful to simulate rome's large manpower resources, dunno if you all agree with me there

[Steppe Merc]

I believe this is what I said.......??

Sorry, I thought you meant not including the Scythians at all, and just having the Sarmatians.

I had an idea about the roman levies, like rorarii and acensii (sp?) etc, how about making them mercs only hirable around roman towns? dunno if this is possible and only hireable by Romans. They would be cheap crap and plentiful to simulate rome's large manpower resources, dunno if you all agree with me there

As of yet, I haven't seen how to make units province specific....

[Stormy]

Hellenistic Greek
275BC-146BC

Greek Auxilia


I think all the greeks in game need a unit like the picture above. A unit that will fight like libyan spearmen or eastern infantry . Question, In game alot of non greek units are fighting in a phalanx and is that right or accurate??? I seen barbarians spearman, egyptian nile pikemen and pharaohs guards as well as the carthaginian sacred band and the poeni do it.

[DisruptorX]

I think all the greeks in game need a unit like the picture above. A unit that will fight like libyan spearmen or eastern infantry . Question, In game alot of non greek units are fighting in a phalanx and is that right or accurate??? I seen barbarians spearman, egyptian nile pikemen and pharaohs guards as well as the carthaginian sacred band and the poeni do it.

The Egyptians doing it is accurate, it just doesn't look right because the egyptians uniforms are complete fantasy. The egyptians were a hellenic kingdom.

The only non-greeks I can think of who can use the Phalanx are the Carthaginians and Nubians. The nubian spearmen having phalanx is of course wrong. I don't enough about Carthage to tell you about its accuracy, though.

Barbarians don't have phalanx units. The thracians have phalanx, but they had already been conquered by the macedonians in the past, so would have had a greek influence.

[Steppe Merc]

Not true. The Germans (and mabye Gauls) fought in phanlaxs, as Phscyo will be quick to tell you.
They weren't exactly per se phalangites, but they fought clustered together with spears, so they should have it, as the Germans do for one unit.

[DisruptorX]

Not true. The Germans (and mabye Gauls) fought in phanlaxs, as Phscyo will be quick to tell you.
They weren't exactly per se phalangites, but they fought clustered together with spears, so they should have it, as the Germans do for one unit.

I don't want to come off sounding like an idiot, but, that is how you fight with spears in all cases, bunch together and skewer your opponent, right? I was referring to the phalanx formation, with the exact lance angles and long pikes.

Rome doesn't simulate spear combat nearly as well as medieval did, with multiple ranks fighting. You don't need to be in a phalanx to do that...

Correct me if I'm wrong.