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Thread: The Temple

  1. #61

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    I dont want to ruin anything for anyone, hopefully im just missing something, but while looking through the descriptions text, i came across several descriptions of trojan units, is there a historical battle, campaign or something with troy in it...again i hope im not spoiling anything...

    Thanks alot, cel

  2. #62
    Member Member flip's Avatar
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    Cel, Hi

    komninos may speak better about this, but this are remaining stuff from a previous campaign Troy that is no longer included in this mod. An upcoming project mod may have something similar.
    CHIEF DESIGNER

    Hellenic Total War

  3. #63

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    Ok, good, well atleast it puts that to rest, thanks for the quick response

    so Its not included in the mod anymore, i can stop imagining sending trojan units into battle
    Thanks

  4. #64
    Member mercian billman's Avatar
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    Does anybody know what the proper unit depth is?

    Im having trouble figuring this out, the unit sizes are huge if your using three units of immortals they could probably be stretched across the whole map in a line of 2.

    To me it makes sense to keep units thick otherwise their unmanagable.

    If anybody could post the optimum unit depth for Hoplites, Cavalry, Missle Troops etc. I would be very appreciative.

    Thanks,
    Billman

  5. #65

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    You can keep your mouse on some units for a while, and it will say Best in formations of 4 Or something like that. But spears that just say deep are most effect at 4 (2 to attack, 2 for reserve) I usually get the max attack, and use two reserve lines.

  6. #66
    Member Member Acailia's Avatar
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    few quick notes:

    -skirmish Ai. I'm sure it's been asked at some point in the past, but is there any way to make AI units not default to skirmish mode? Mostly I'm thinking of the cavalry units that got a javelin added, in the end often in battles they're less effective when the AI is using them because of it, Illyrian cavalry etc used to be dangerous, but they just run while you kill them now. Maybe nothing can be done, probably not..oh well, worth checking.

    -unit size issues? Seems often when trying to select and move cavalry units they have an invisible range far above them where they'll get selected if you click, is this just due to the sizing changes to accomodate elephants? Takes a bit of getting used to, messed me up a few times.

    Enjoying the new version though greatly

  7. #67
    Member mercian billman's Avatar
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    Nubian Spearmen are so large if you put them into 4 ranks they become dificult to manuever. I think Hoplites and Macadeonian Phanlanxes should be in rows of 6 like (Pike units in MTW) not sure though.

  8. #68
    Member Member Acailia's Avatar
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    oh yes, forgot to mention...oxil...err, the 4 man mobile ballista guys, are probably a bit too melee strong. i absorbed a charge of most of an athenian army with 16 of them without any losses, was pretty funny. dunno respective valors though, and they do rack it up fairly fast, but still

  9. #69

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    I think the Persians are way to strong, the game is a bit unbalanced between east and west too manny factions in west and only 2-3 factions in the east, maybe if you set the eastern provinces incomes very low or something like that, cause in classical era is pretty annoying to spent 30-40 years in battles for 4-6 provinces and after that the persians will attack you with tones of arms, and maybe if you reduce the time for training hoplites and others types of soldiers, cause is imposibble to train land army and naval army in same time in resonable quantities.

    Annyway this is a great mod, the graphic part I think is much better than in original MTW, and the feeling too.

  10. #70
    Lord, Cartographer and Poet. Member King Azzole's Avatar
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    The trick is to leave your greek neighbors alone at the start, and concentrate on choosing a side between the persians and lydians. Classical isa bit different, and i dont like the 100 year cap. But pro classic and geometric I usually choose the side of whoevers navy won, then I help them finish off the other person. This gives me lots of land in asia minor.
    Charge, repeat as necessary.

  11. #71
    Member Member PSYCHO's Avatar
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    Question

    Currently playing as Athens. Followed the traditional rout.

    Boetians attacked early on. Gave me a bit of a scare with alot of Theban Sacred Band guys. Held them off and then destroyed them with help from my Argos (sp?) allies.
    Then built up infrastructure, built up a huge fleet and then joined with the Corinthians to land on Asia Minor and invade Persian lands. All is going well so far.

    The only prob I have is that when thereís a joint assault by allies, if the allies win, the faction with most troops then gets to keep the province and the other is forced to ransom back their own victorious force. Is there some way that this could be fixed? I donít know how many times allies have joined in an attack of mine, we win and then Iím forced to buy back my troops from my allies



    PSYCHO V

    PROUD SUPPORTER OF 'EUROPA BARBARORUM'

  12. #72

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    I think the peltasts could use more ammo, they way too ineffective in my opinion. Doubling their ammo is a must, because at the moment I'll always take a unit of archers or heavy slingers in their place...
    Friendship, Fun & Honour!

    "The Prussian army always attacks."
    -Frederick the Great

  13. #73

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    I think the amount of ammo is fine. I use their Javilens like Pilas, and then later use them as flankers, or tactical reservers should a crisis arise.

  14. #74

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    Psycho,that is a code problem in MTW nothing that we can fix...

    CZoF

  15. #75

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    Yes, but I'd rather not commit my Peltasts to a melee with Hoplites because they suffer heavy losses against them even though they're attacking the rear..
    Friendship, Fun & Honour!

    "The Prussian army always attacks."
    -Frederick the Great

  16. #76
    Member Member Omegamann's Avatar
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    If you are talking about Thracian Peltasts, I know it takes some time to perform well with them.
    Though they can cope with most infantry realy nicely and have good moral, but they can only overpower hoplites when at a roughly 3:1 advantage.

    Their main advantage is speed, so retreat before the enemys
    attacks and try to splitt the AI army appart.
    Also know that you can swamp the hellenic provinces with peltasts as hoplites take a while to be trained.

    In cooperation with the heavy (royal) thracian cavalery its quite possible to tire out and rout a complete hoplite army.

    You just have to be very patient




  17. #77
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Great mod everyone Just began playing today (where did the time go??? ) and I must say, this is awesome. I would like some clarifications, though.

    First, is there a tech tree? That would just make my day. And I need it.
    Second...
    I was playing as Macedon on Geometric and I captured the provinces next to your starting ones (I know zero names, all are new to me). I couldn't build past the fort level of buildings. That is, I couldn't get the keep-like castle building. Is that a mistake? Or am I just not building something???
    Third: How soon will you guys finish this thing?? I can't wait
    4th: do the persians have any good spear? I look for a few seconds in pro-classic and didn't find any
    5th: are there time periods, like in MTW, that let you make better units? If so, when?

    Simply stunning game. You've won a new convert (and have stolen my free time for a looooong while)

  18. #78
    Member Member GreasePaintMonkeyBrains's Avatar
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    Great Mod

    I just came back from a lan party and we played
    HTW to 3 days straight and i must say multiplayer
    is funMy freinds and i are now playing a spartan
    pbm.

    One question Polmiste ( please excuse the spelling)
    What is the best way to use them. The Unit prod says
    they are spear units but they seem to fight better in
    engage at will ???

    also i saw some early roman units posted a while back
    are you guys still gonna have a roman invasion campaign?

    Also i assume the trojan wars campaign will not work with
    HTW 3.1 so it would be great to add that campaign in the
    final release

    Cheers thanks for all the hard work

    GPMB
    My Amtgard team has a Drinking problem- The Drunkerds

  19. #79
    Member Member rlccohen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (LeChuck @ July 05 2004,02:37)]I think the Persians are way to strong, the game is a bit unbalanced between east and west too manny factions in west and only 2-3 factions in the east, maybe if you set the eastern provinces incomes very low or something like that, cause in classical era is pretty annoying to spent 30-40 years in battles for 4-6 provinces and after that the persians will attack you with tones of arms, and maybe if you reduce the time for training hoplites and others types of soldiers, cause is imposibble to train land army and naval army in same time in resonable quantities.

    Annyway this is a great mod, the graphic part I think is much better than in original MTW, and the feeling too.
    The Persians are definitely tough. Historically they are supposed to be I guess. I was able to wear them down by sacrificing a series of armies as I fell back. So if I was able to get them to spread out as they advanced and was able to get them to lose 4 to 5 X my losses, at some point I was able to counterattack.

    Later in the game I was able to reduce them by bribing a series of persion armies. Even though the bribed army would lose the battle (I wasn't able to bribe enough), it still wore them down.

  20. #80
    Member Member CID007's Avatar
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    Hi guys,

    for Alexander : you have to build the provinsial estate in order to build the keep (it's the only degree castle that depend on a buildings that are not a castle) ;

    for Riccohen : I disagree with you, because i'm playing a campaign with the Lacedemonis (the Spartans) and, surely the Persians can create a huge army, but don't let you keep in mistake, because tha power of hoplites balance the situation
    So, with few men, I was able to win some battles, besides, with naval blocks and bribings, I can take under control their expansion

    Anyway, any doubt is right that we discuss... ....or not ?

    Bye bye.

  21. #81
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Thanks, CID007, I will try that right away
    And the Persians aren't that great because their spears = crap Everything else is just filler (most of it, anyway). That is, according to my humble opinion, anyway.

    Just amazing mod. Can't stop singing praises.

  22. #82
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    yea but they reprodude their armies all the time and even if wear them down they're still gonna make more and you are going to lose more land and the war will last forever and ever and ever.... Anyways I always try to avoid that because its really tiring.

  23. #83

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    The Persians seeme a bit too weak for me...

  24. #84
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    You gotta use your numbers, and use the better ones (immortals, elephants, chariots, royal cav, etc.) And hire Greek mercanaries.




    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
    Grateful Dead, "Ripple"

  25. #85

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    Main problem is..I Always get my butt kicked by the Athenians when I attempt to take the Ionian Coast. I Use those troops also.

  26. #86
    Member Member rlccohen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (CID007 @ July 07 2004,01:44)]Hi guys,

    for Alexander : you have to build the provinsial estate in order to build the keep (it's the only degree castle that depend on a buildings that are not a castle) ;

    for Riccohen : I disagree with you, because i'm playing a campaign with the Lacedemonis (the Spartans) and, surely the Persians can create a huge army, but don't let you keep in mistake, because tha power of hoplites balance the situation
    So, with few men, I was able to win some battles, besides, with naval blocks and bribings, I can take under control their expansion

    Anyway, any doubt is right that we discuss... ....or not ?

    Bye bye.
    I'm playing the Lacedemonis too and I agree to some extent but there do seem to be limits. Somewhere around a 4-1 advantage and it starts to get dicey at least for me. This is my first game so when 26k Persians came rolling down the pike and I had an army of about 5-7k Spartans I didn't want to risk it all on one battle.

    Just as challenging though was when half of Greece revolted with most of best armies in Asia Minor. Talk about the march of the ten thousand.

    I was waiting for Rome Total War but this mod has made the wait a breeze

  27. #87
    Member Member CID007's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Hi guys,

    I see that the matter about the huge amounts of Persian armies, interests many of you, so, I wish to put here some suggestions, useful to win the Persian Empire :

    1) try to make more alliances as well as possible with the Greek factions, in order to not make the war each other ;
    2) in order to create a big army, before invade the Persian regions, conquer as many rebel regions as possible, that, quite often, are created by internal faction rebellions ;
    3) create merchant ships, for improving your incomes, and war ships to take controls of the Asian coasts, because if the Persian armies manage to land in Europe, the game is over
    4) create many emissaries, for bribing the Persian armies little loyal : when they will pass from your part, a battle will start;
    be careful : accept the fighting but don't fight
    when the battlefield is on, and you start the battle, select all your troops (CTRL+A) and order the withdrawn (CTRL+W) ;
    in the end, the game will ask if you want to pay a bill in order to ransom your troops : PAY
    It doesn't matter that you spend a lot of money (but don't overdo to spend the money of course ) but you will detract troops from the Persians and will make growing your armies, and the Persians, without over seas trade, cannot last for much time

    Of course, it takes many turns : in the while, you have to grow the morale, the weapon and the shield of your troops, besides, you have to conquer some asian region in order to dectract creating troops centres, etc... but I didn't manage to discover another solution to beat a terrifying army like the Persian army.

    See you

    El Cid.

  28. #88

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    Question: the money from trade come only from trade ships or warships count too in trade routs?

  29. #89
    Member Member CID007's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    There's no difference if you use warships or merchant ships for trade or for troops movements : change only the strenght of attack and defence, if you are under attack or want to engage a naval battle.

  30. #90
    Member Member rlccohen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (CID007 @ July 08 2004,03:03)]Hi guys,

    I see that the matter about the huge amounts of Persian armies, interests many of you, so, I wish to put here some suggestions, useful to win the Persian Empire :

    1) try to make more alliances as well as possible with the Greek factions, in order to not make the war each other ;
    2) in order to create a big army, before invade the Persian regions, conquer as many rebel regions as possible, that, quite often, are created by internal faction rebellions ;
    3) create merchant ships, for improving your incomes, and war ships to take controls of the Asian coasts, because if the Persian armies manage to land in Europe, the game is over
    4) create many emissaries, for bribing the Persian armies little loyal : when they will pass from your part, a battle will start;
    be careful : accept the fighting but don't fight
    when the battlefield is on, and you start the battle, select all your troops (CTRL+A) and order the withdrawn (CTRL+W) ;
    in the end, the game will ask if you want to pay a bill in order to ransom your troops : PAY
    It doesn't matter that you spend a lot of money (but don't overdo to spend the money of course ) but you will detract troops from the Persians and will make growing your armies, and the Persians, without over seas trade, cannot last for much time

    Of course, it takes many turns : in the while, you have to grow the morale, the weapon and the shield of your troops, besides, you have to conquer some asian region in order to dectract creating troops centres, etc... but I didn't manage to discover another solution to beat a terrifying army like the Persian army.

    See you

    El Cid.
    I agree with you about bribery. It siphons off troops both in terms of the battles they create and the troops you buy. I pay the ransom and send them right back into battle as fodder.

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