The Temple

[vodkafire]

Are the Macedonian Phalanxes worth it? I know they are better than regular hoplites in attack but to deploy them to their full potential you have to deploy them 12 ranks deep(1 fighting + 10 supporting + 1 backup). Deploying them this deep makes it not only difficult to manuever(not to mention the annoying draggin the unit across the map and counting the ranks, making sure it's 12, since their default formation is 8 or 10 deep for some reason) but also cover a very small area. Also, being so deep makes it very easy to flank and devastating when flanked, not to mention difficulty in keeping your men tight. This is similar to the pikemen problem in MTW but alot worse(only 6 ranks for pikemen, not 12). So anyone else hate to play them or want to teach me how to use them? I get real anal with these things and must get them to be exactly 12 ranks deep everytime i move them, which, as you can imagine, can get very annoying(i dont know, maybe there's a hotkey i missed). How does anyone else use them?

[Oleander Ardens]

Well Vodkafire, I don't have HTW right now, but I played a lot around with Pikemen in general, so I might have a nice way to use them...


There is no perfect pikeformation, but at least three good variants IMHO.

a) Hold the line: 6 ranks suffice against medium infantry and are able to hold the line for a decent period. They get +4 defense, + 4 charge and +2 defense..

b) Jack of all trade: 9 ranks provide very good protection and good attack. Such formations work very against good infantry and will bite hard. + 8 defense, + 8 charge, + 4 attack are very nice indeed. Best used against good-very good infantry when you are pike-heavy..

c) Spearhead: This is your offensive pike-arm. With the incredible rankbonus and the good Mac. stats it should be devasting frontally and be your spearhead. + 10 defense, +10 charge and + 5 attack are well enough to make big holes into enemy lines. It's very small frontage makes good flankprotection necessary, possibly with Mac phalangites in "Hold the line" 6 rank deep formation to cover enough space. Light offensive troops behind the "Spearhead" can also help to widen the gap and to protect the flanks of it.

I did something similar with 256 men units of pikemens in my small MTW-mod against a friend of mine. We used Pike/Halb formations with little arbelast/cav support. The charge of the Pikemen is simply devastating. I used a unupgraded 256 man unit of Swiss Pikemen against three JHI with 6 support ranks for the Phalanx. The SAP's simply marched over the central JHI unit, killing 33 with their charge alone, causing a immediate rout...


Cheers

OA

[Ldvs]

Are the Macedonian Phalanxes worth it? I know they are better than regular hoplites in attack but to deploy them to their full potential you have to deploy them 12 ranks deep(1 fighting + 10 supporting + 1 backup). Deploying them this deep makes it not only difficult to manuever(not to mention the annoying draggin the unit across the map and counting the ranks, making sure it's 12, since their default formation is 8 or 10 deep for some reason) but also cover a very small area. Also, being so deep makes it very easy to flank and devastating when flanked, not to mention difficulty in keeping your men tight. This is similar to the pikemen problem in MTW but alot worse(only 6 ranks for pikemen, not 12). So anyone else hate to play them or want to teach me how to use them? I get real anal with these things and must get them to be exactly 12 ranks deep everytime i move them, which, as you can imagine, can get very annoying(i dont know, maybe there's a hotkey i missed). How does anyone else use them?

Use them in the default formation, where did you see they must be in a 12 ranks deep? In game you're told that they do their best in 6 ranks deep or deeper, not 12.

[vodkafire]

Use them in the default formation, where did you see they must be in a 12 ranks deep? In game you're told that they do their best in 6 ranks deep or deeper, not 12.

If you read Hellenic_unit_prod2.txt it says 10 supporting ranks. 1 fighting + 10 supporting + 1 backup(when the front ranks die) = 12

Thanks oleander, very good observations, especially if you dont have to worry about flanking as much as in MTW.

[Ldvs]

I didn't notice that, i must admit i don't pay attention to this since i find the default hoplite formations quite handy like they are. As you said it, it must not cover a vast area , therefore have a poor efficiency.