Modlet I

[Mouzafphaerre]

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[table 1 1 1]Attention:
The lists posted at this thread are outdated. Please check the newer namelists at our temporary forum. Thanks![/table]
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Hello all wise modders of the guild, and the rest of the patrons alike



After months of elementary study, weeks of hard work and plenty of frustration, I'm glad to announce the official launch of my Modlet I.

I have decided to name it a modlet because, compared to all the great stuff being cooked my seniors (in modding ), it's but a collection of little yet hopefully effective and enjoyable modifications/corrections/enhancements to the game.

This project has been an adaptation and learning process for me to handle more involved mods.

CONTENTS

Modlet I consists of three core elements:[*] Basic tweaks to enhance the effectiveness and rationality (some would prefer realisme or accuracy) of gameplay. These are basically taken from here and there. I have to credit frogbeastegg since I followed her suggestions about projectiles fundemantally, making minor changes myself; Kekvit Irae, for copying her way and making Almughavars a trainable unit exclusive to the Aragonese with exactly the same tech requirements as hers; the community in general (I think) for removing the silly landbridges, increasing farm income for most provinces so on so forth...
[*] Correction of naming. I have struggled to make several faction, person, province and unit names historically and locally more acceptable if not hardcore accurate. Because the provincial partition of the game hasn't been changed and no new factions/unit types added/present ones removed, that's a compromise. Some choices I have made will most probably cause debates amongst our valued historians and their suggestions/ideas will always be welcome even if not necessarily applied. My basic principal has been using what the peoples represented in the game preferred defining themselves and their land but that had to be compromised at times. My gratitude to PseRamesses and Tricky Lady for their help and encouragement at this stage.
[*] Reworking of unit availability. Ship building has been reorganized geographically, as opposed to the game's factional/religional approach, which was incorrect. A similar way has been taken for land units. They have been classified and made available according to their attributes. This idea is not unique to me either. Besides countless modders, Duke Surak'nar, my friend and brother in the LIB, should be credited for geographically available local units approach.[/list]
DETAILS

Basic Tweaks:
[*] Projectile stats have been altered;[*] Landbridges have been removed;[*] Game end has been extended to 1648 (Treaty of Westfalen) in anticipation of a future project. (Hint );[*] Farm income has been increased in many provinces;[*] All faction behaviours have been set to CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE/CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST, ORTHODOX_STAGNANT and MUSLIM_PEACEFUL in a hope to help decreasing the conquest frenzy.[*] Maybe other things that I cannot remember at this time. [/list]Unit Reorganization:

A) Ships:

Coastal provinces have been organized in four groups: Nordic, Atlantic, Mediterranean and African. Each one has a unique shipbuilding tech tree, regardless of its owner. For example, any faction holding a Mediterranean/Pontic coastal province will be able to build Galleys et al while it will have to stick to Dhows and upwards at the African coastal...

B) Land units:

Land units have been classified according to their character as local, unique and cultural.

Local units are those that are special to their geography (such as the Nubian Spearmen, Desert Archers, Bedewi Camel Warriors, Steppe Cavalry, Genoese Archers, Hay Heavy Cavalry, Swiss Pikemen, Longbowmen etc.) and can be trained by any faction holding their relative provinces.

Unique units are faction specific and can only be trained by their respective factions. Muwahhid UM, Almughavars, Kataphraktoi, Yeniçeri troops are examples to this case. Some unique units can be raised by their faction anywhere (Muwahhid UM, Ottoman Infantry, Roman Cavalry) while others are restricted to certain realms. To that effect, provinces have also been classified.

Cultural units are unique to certain faction sets. For instance, all Feudal and Chivalric Units are available only to feudal Catholic factions and can only be trained in feudal lands.

Naming Edition:

Below is the list of altered faction names:

The Muwahhids
The Romans
The Danes
The Egyptians
The English
The French
The Germans
The Italians
The Polski
The Russians
The Spanish
The Turks
The Aragonese
The Burgons
The Mongols
The Magyars
The Republic of Novgorod
The Papacy
The Sicilians
The Swiss

Provinces:

Scotland
Northumbria
Mercia
Cymru
Wessex
Ireland
Norge
Sverige
Danmark
Suomi
Novgorod
Moskva
Livonia
Smolensk
Ryazan
Chernigov
Lithuania
Pereyaslavl
Volga-Bulgaria
Khazar
Kiev
Krym
Volhynia
Prussia
Bogdan
Erdel
Wallachia
Bulgaria
Magyarorszag
Polska
Pomerania
Brandenburg
Silesia
Cechy
Sachsen
Friesland
Flandre
Normandie
Bretagne
Franken
Lotharingien
Champagne
Ile de France
Anjou
Aquitaine
Toulouse
Provence
Burgogne
Schwaben
Bayern
Switzerland
Tyrol
Österreich
Hrvatska
Srbiya
Peloponnesos
Konstantinopolis
Kriti
Rodhos
Sakartvelo
Hayastan
Rum
Kilikia
Ruha
Trebizond
Nikaia
Asia
Kypros
Antiokheia
Suriye
Trablus
Filistin
Nejd
Sina
Masr
Berqa
Sahra
Ifriqiye
Jezairiye
Magrib
Grnata
Qurtuba
Portugal
Leon
Castillia
Belensiye
Navarra
Aragon
Corsica
Sardinia
Liguria
Lombardia
Veneto
Toscana
Di Stati Pontifici
Lazio
Campania
Malta
Sicilia

The entire name lists for the Muwahhids (ex Almohads), the Turks and the Egyptians have been rewritten while that of the Romans (ex Byzantines) has been radically reworked to get rid of the Latin (Comnenus) and English (John) forms. Btw, Bulgaroctonus has been removed from the list and Macrembolittissa has been restored to the proper masculine form of Makrembolites. Hasan e Sabbah has been removed from the Turkish heroes list, so has Ibn Teymiyye from the Egyptian one. Ysevolod has been corrected as Vsevolod in the Russian/Novgorod list. The Sicilians will no more have Scots names (credit: Tricky Lady).

Several unit names have also been altered.

The campmap textures will be edited to reflect the naming alterations soon.

Please discuss about this basic outline so that I can make as stable a beta release as possible.

Cheers


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[Kaiser of Arabia]

download?
Sounds Good,

[Ellesthyan]

Sounds good, up

Im personally against giving provinces the names in the native language, as it confuses the heck out of people, especially when we're talking about eastern-european names - they're unpronouncable

I really like the local/cultural/unique idea. It's something I've been walking with in my head for some time, but never had the guts to do it. I hope no faction will be at a disadvantage by this, though.

If you've got some time left, you might want to take a look at the starting state of the medieval world. Contrary to want the game wants you to believe, it was quite a civilised place, and the land was littered with numerous castles, while in M:TW many, many great cities aren't even at fort level... *cough* Antioch *cough*

It's a poor thing CA did not take the time you've put in it, as this is how it should've been brought out in the first place

[Suraknar]

Well, Congratulations on that One HB (Mouza ;)),

Really nice and thourough work as always.

But, you know what I will say next

Where are my BYZANTINES???

Hehe, once again, the debate will spark

Oh I do not deny that Byzantine was not an Official name but it came to be, because even if this was indeed the Eastern part of the Roman Empire that Survived after the Fall of the Roman Empire, it's Capital Constantinoupolis being in the region of Byzantium (in which you live now), became the prefered term.

Furthermore, The Byzantine Empire was an Hellenic and not Roman in terms of Nationality, even if some people still called and refered to themselves as Romans, specially in the early years up and including the 7th century. However by the Time this Game Happens (roughly 500 years later) it was no longer the case.

And even if Byzantine was what others called the Empire rather than it's own inhabitants, I think in that respect the Byzantine Empire should remain Byzantine named. Specially since there is a HRE that formed after the Rift of the Christian Orthodox Church during the meetings of 1023 in Nicaea, resulting to the Inception of the Catholic Roman Church.

Furthermore, Byzantine, is now the accepted terminology in various University Faculties in Byzantine Studies around the world.

So, I understand it is your point of view, so only asking that you please consider that :P

In any case I shall gladly be playing this Mod, one way or another :)

[Ellesthyan]

Well Suraknar, Im not going to discuss this thoroughly, but here's my opinion anyway.

If you would ask a man in Medieval Europe about the Byzantine Empire, he'd look at you and tell you he doesn't know such place. He probably doesn't know about a city called Byzantium either. When you start about Greeks he may get it already and when you call it the Roman Empire he'll know what you're talking about.

The name Byzantines, although justified, is made up 500 years after the empire ceased to exist. It's a little ridiculous to call your own empire - You do play the emperor - as if you lived some centuries later... Even if they knew Byzantines was a more appropiate name, they would never use it, as they had a good reason for keeping the Roman name:
The Emperor still had important claims on west europe. He was protector of Rome, the king of the Franks was his vassal, the Norse would come to Constantinople only because the legendary Romans lived there.

The westerners, however, called the Byzantines the Greek Empire, as they already had their own Roman one: the Holy Roman Empire. The HRE did claim absolute power over all the previously roman country, like the Byzantines did. If the Byzantines would give up their name and with that their claims on the west and their legendary stories, it would do severe damage.

... And that's why I think it's a little silly to call them Byzantines. If you really want to make some distinction with the Roman Empire you could call them East Romans, or the Greek Empire (but that's a western name, so if you do that you should call all the other places as the English called them).

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Hello Surak'nar, dear friend Very glad you've come to my humble thread.

I'd rather the historical part of the discussion be carried on at the Monastry.



My reasoning behind the naming has been explained above:

Quote[/b] ]Some choices I have made will most probably cause debates amongst our valued historians and their suggestions/ideas will always be welcome even if not necessarily applied. My basic principal has been using what the peoples represented in the game preferred defining themselves and their land but that had to be compromised at times.

Looking forward to hearing more comments before releasing the beta.


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[Mouzafphaerre]

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Province and faction grouping for unit reorganisation is as follows.

A) COASTAL PROVINCES
[*] Mediterranean/Pontic Group:

This group is able to build the Galley tree, including the Dromon, up to the mighty Gungalley.

Khazar
Krym
Kiev
Bogdan
Bulgaria
Konstantinopolis
Trebizond
Sakartvelo
Nikaia
Asia
Kilikia
Antiokheia
Trablus
Kypros
Rodhos
Kriti
Peloponnesos
Srbiya
Hrvatska
Veneto
Di Stati Pontifici
Campania
Malta
Sicilia
Lazio
Toscana
Corsica
Sardinia
Liguria
Provence
Toulouse
Aragon
Belensiye
Grnata
Qurtuba
[*] African Coastal Group:

Dhows up to Booms can be built in these provinces, with the addition of Gungalley at the top.

Filistin
Sina
Masr
Berqa
Ifriqiye
Jezairiye
Magrib
[*] Atlantic Group:

The tech tree lines from Barque upwards in these provinces.

Scotland
Northumbria
Mercia
Wessex
Cymru
Ireland
Friesland
Flandre
Sachsen
Normandie
Bretagne
Aquitaine
Navarra
Castillia
Leon
Portugal
[*] Nordic Group:

In these provinces can be built Galleys, Caravels, Cogs and Carracks.

Suomi
Novgorod
Livonia
Lithuania
Prussia
Pomerania

Scandinavia is given the Longboat instead of the Galley:

Danmark
Sverige
Norge

They'll have to tech up before Late when Longboats are no more buildable.[/list]
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[Mouzafphaerre]

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B) PROVINCE GROUPS

All provinces, inland or costal alike, have been grouped by a set of criteria. Some regions fit into more than one group. This organisation dictates which units are trainable where.
[*] Feudal West

This set includes those provinces that classical feudality has lived for centuries depending upon firmly planted historical roots. Although Russia dropped feudal system completely not before the 1905 revolution, that doesn't fit into our timeframe. Hungary and Poland roughly mark the border between East and West in our context.

Feudal and chivalric units can only be trained in these provinces.

Scotland
Northumbria
Ireland
Mercia
Wessex
Cymru
Norge
Sverige
Danmark
Sachsen
Brandenburg
Pomerania
Prussia
Franken
Freisland
Flandre
Lotharingien
Bayern
Cechy
Österreich
Schwaben
Champagne
Normandie
Bretagne
Switzerland
Aquitaine
Anjou
Ile De France
Burgogne
Tyrol
Veneto
Lombardia
Liguria
Di Stati Pontifici
Lazio
Toscana
Campania
Sicilia
Malta
Corsica
Sardinia
Provence
Toulouse
Navarra
Aragon
Castillia
Leon
Belensiye
Portugal
[*] Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Realm

Unique Roman units such as the Pronoiai Allagion can only be trained in these.

Trebizond
Asia
Nikaia
Konstantinopolis
Kypros
Rodhos
Kriti
Peloponnesos
Bulgaria
Srbiya
Hrvatska
Campania
[*] Ottoman Realm

Yeniçeri and Sipahi units are restricted to these provinces.

Sakartvelo
Hayastan
Rum
Kilikia
Ruha
Antiokheia
Suriye
Nejd
Trablus
Filistin
Sina
Masr
Berqa
Ifriqiye
Jezairiye
Kypros
Rodhos
Kriti
Asia
Nikaia
Trebizond
Konstantinopolis
Peloponnesos
Bulgaria
Srbiya
Hrvatska
Wallachia
Bogdan
Erdel
Krym

The scope of the area exceeds the Ottoman borders ever reached until 1453 (original game end). This is on purpose. (Hint. )
[*] Memluk (Mamluk) Realm

Unique Memluk units can be trained in the following provinces.

Masr
Berqa
Sina
Filistin
Nejd
Trablus
Suriye
Antiokheia
Kilikia
Ruha
[*] Italy

Guess what? This is where Italian/Sicilian/Papal specific units can be trained.

Veneto
Lombardia
Liguria
Toscana
Di Stati Pontifici
Lazio
Campania
Corsica
Sardinia
Sicilia
Malta
[*] Russia

Druzhina, Boyars and alike (if any) can only be trained here.

Novgorod
Smolensk
Moskva
Ryazan
Chernigov
Volga-Bulgaria
Pereyaslavl
Kiev
[*] Catholic Spain

Portugal
Leon
Castillia
Aragon
Belensiye
Navarra
[*] Magrib

The heart of the Muwahhid Empire. They have to train their mighty AUMs or Murabit Jav.s here and ship elsewhere.

Belensiye
Qurtuba
Grnata
Magrib
Jezairiye
Ifriqiye
Berqa[/list]
Even making this post, I changed a couple things. Therefore, this is not necessarily the final grouping.
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[Suraknar]

Hello,

valid Points valid points.

And the debate really has no sence if that is what HB (Mouza) really wants, it is your Mod my friend.

However, around the 7th Century, Emperor Heraklios changed his title from Emperor to Basieleus, the Hellenic Word for King.

The People of Constantinoupolis may have continued calling themselves Romans for some time, and since Romans Founded that City, however, it can be argued that and since Rome had Fallen, and Romans called themselves Romans because of Rome that Romans the Classical Romans had already seased to Exist.

I understand the Interests of the West to stop calling That (now mostly Hellenic) Empire , Roman.

And in restrospect, I would ask this, if at the same period, we asked someone from Athens, or Peloponesus, or even Kriti, North Africa or Asia Minor how they called themselves, I am not so sure that they would say Romans, their answers could be different, but not Roman.

So, to call summarilly the faction Romans, that which we usually do for Classical Roman Empire does not stay well in my own mind if you please, Maybe Greco-Romans, Hellenes, that would have more credibitility (even if not accurate intirelly, but that is the essence of the Issue), I think and in my humble opinion.

And I think HB maybe right something to disccuss more in detail at the Monastery :)

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Actually, there are some ready threads on this problematic there. Although I'll probably go with my decision, your comment has been noted and appreciated as always.
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[Mouzafphaerre]

Quote[/b] (Mouzafphaerre @ April 30 2004,15:50)]I'd rather the historical part of the discussion be carried on at the Monastry.

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That was mean. I apologise from Surak'nar and Ellesthyan. I didn't mean to chase you away. I'm asking for your comments myself.

All I meant to say, let's not go into further details and keep the discussion related to the mod itself. All kinds of comments are always appreciated.

I'm a history maniac myself. Would love to learn more and more and more...

If you're interested, this is the link to the related Monastry thread:

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....;t=2110
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[Ellesthyan]

Well, that looks all right One question though, if I am for example playing the French and I take an Italian province, does that mean I can recruit some specific Italian troops? Or does that apply only to special provinces (like Genova). I'd like to be able to recruit a few foreign troops here and there, as it's a lot of fun and makes taking new provinces worthwile. The Romans for example had quite a few Bulgarians in their army, recruited Turcopoles from previously Turkish provinces, and used almost fully western armies in Italy.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Depends on the troop. You can't train Italian Infantry for instance, but anybody can train Genoese Archers (I know they're actually crossbowmen but I didn't change it. Maybe in Modlet II...).

Likewise, you can't train Turcoman Horse, for instance, but Hay (Armenian) Heavy Cavalry.

Hmm... Maybe I should document it in more detail.
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[Eastside Character]

Hello Mouzafphaerre,

Quite an interesting little mod you're making here.
I have some doubts as for some names tho. In the faction list you posted here before, there are factions like:

The Poles - which I think should be rather The Polish (The Poles sounds like it's north and south pole faction)

The Rus Novgorod - which should be The Republic of Novgorod or preferably The Republic of Lord Novgorod The Great.

Good luck with your project.

Regards,
EC

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Thanks It's great to get recognition from an expert.

Quote[/b] ]
The Poles - which I think should be rather The Polish (The Poles sounds like it's north and south pole faction)

I would prefer naming them in native Polish (Polski?). Otherwise, I'll go with your suggestion. (Poles was admittedly lame.)

Quote[/b] ]The Rus Novgorod - which should be The Republic of Novgorod or preferably The Republic of Lord Novgorod The Great.

Thanks once again. That was yet another placeholder requiring clarification.

However, I'm avoiding English and else foreign conventions as far as possible. Thus, would it be appropriate to use The Republic of (Lord?) Velikiy Novgorod?
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[Mouzafphaerre]

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Attention - To the honourable patron who contacted me via ICQ

For some reason I can neither reply to you nor see your handle to add to my contacts. Will you please send an email to:

hbarbarossa at piratescrossroads dot com

Thanks for your offer of help and of course I'm interested.


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[Solo]

email sent

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Thanks.


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[Suraknar]

hello :)

Asmall note on units here, and the Logic behind some Local Units availability, that was shared to HB (Mouza) and he gracioucly decided to make it part of his Mod here.

If you please permit me to give an explanation here my friend.

It actually comes from the Logic of Local Populace units. While under the traditional control of a territory the Special units are available and bellong to these Civilisations, if the said Territory, like arabia came under the control of another Civilisation, there would still be Camels and Bedouin Riders around independently of which Power rules the land. It can then be assumed via conjecture that said local units join and become part of the curent Ruling Power's armies, be it via some sort of conscription or voluntarilly but not limited to Mercenary Duty.

It does make sence, and within the Context of the Game Timeline of Events.

Hope this sheds some light on this, or better yet answers the questions about Local Unit changes.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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LOCAL UNITS
[*] All ship types
[*] Highlands Clansmen[*] Kerns[*] Gallowglasses[*] Longbowmen[*] Billmen[*] Genoese Archers[*] Trebizond Archers[*] Bulgarian Archers[*] Desert Archers[*] Sahra Cavalry[*] African Spearmen[*] Bedewi Camel Warriors[*] Swiss Pikemen[*] Swiss Armoured Pikemen[*] Swiss Halberdiers[*] Hay Heavy Cavalry[*] Alan Mercanery Cavalry[*] Steppe Cavalry[*] Lithuan Cavalry[*] Woodsmen[/list]
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[Mouzafphaerre]

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Hello Eastside Character,

I've found a decent online translator and the following came up:

Poland: Polska (already got it right)
Polish (singular): Polska
Polish (plural): Polski

Are they all right?
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[Mablung]

Wow Sounds great Release
I want it It is what I have been looking for
*Include the Scots in modletII please*
Great Stuff

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Thanks Mablung



Modlet II will hopefully tackle with new factions and unit graphics. You see, these modlets are like assignments for my modding training.


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[Mablung]

Mouzafphaerre, any idea on release dates?

[Mouzafphaerre]

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The main part must be ready in a week or so. The map texture might take longer.
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[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] (Mouzafphaerre @ May 02 2004,04:21)]-
Hello Eastside Character,

I've found a decent online translator and the following came up:

1. Poland: Polska (already got it right)
2. Polish (singular): Polska
3. Polish (plural): Polski

Are they all right?
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Hello Mouzafphaerre,

1. correct
2. correct (as a faction name that is)
3. correct (though I wonder if there can be more that one Poland at a time - the plurality)

FYI, a word Polski can be translated as:
- of/from Poland
- Polish

But as Polish grammar is quite complicated, the word refers only to musculine gender, feminine for Polski is Polska, neuter is Polskie. What a mess, huh?


And the name lists you wanted in that other thread, I can send you but I need your e-mail adress first, or I can PM you those if you prefer.

Regards,
EC

[Mablung]

Woopie, next week

[dimitrios the samian]

Excellent work Mouza , Sounds awesome will the strategy part be played on a expanded map ? As the original got very congested .

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Hello friends,

Hey Eastside,

Lutoslawski and Penderecki are two composers of my all time favs and I happened to run into a Polish usenet aquaintance kind enough to record how Krzysztof was really pronounced. That is, I'm a little bit better than a total alien about Polish language. (Not that I can recognise a single sentence properly.)

[Did you know there's a Polish village right at the outskirts of Istanbul? ]

Thanks for your confirmation. Both words are meant as faction (people) names, singular and plural. There will be one Poland but her many citizens. As in The Italian Doge and The Italians etc...

Dimitrios,

This is just a modlet mate. It's a learning practice for taking the basic steps into modding. There will hopefully be Modlet II, Modlet III... until I learn & practice enough and feel right for tackling the biggies such as a totally new campaign on a brand new map (hint ). This one will only introduce an edited map texture to reflect the provincial name changes.

Cheers
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[Hetman]

Mouzafphaerre

Duke

Did you know there's a Polish village right at the outskirts of Istanbul?

I'm not sure but isn't it Adampol ?
It was founded in 1835 after November Uprising by polish emigrants, more accurate by prince Adam Czartoryski ( former russian minister of foreign affairs and polish patriot, one of the leaders during the rising) with the help of poet Michal Czajkowski ( known as Sadyk Pasha).
By the way did You know that polish greatest poet Adam Mickiewicz died in Istambul where he was creating so called Ottoman Cossacks ( Polish legion) for the war against Russia.
There are several more reasons to claim that Polish-Ottoman relationship at that time was very good.


But back to the topic.

I like Your idea, especially more accurate names for the provinces, which though 'unpronouncable' as somebody has mentioned are really much better and realistic.

I guess You are planning something special - I mean extending the time frame to 1648.
I'm going to post a topic 'XVI-XVII century mod' and although I'm not able to make the mod I would gladly join anyone who tries to make it real.
There is much to do - new campmap, textures, tech tree and units and although I'm quite good at modding myself I don't have time to create the mod alone ( I'm working at new proposals for the NTW relating to Poland, my own fantasy mod + some historical battles fot the NTW).

Regards Cegorach/Hetman