Cheating

[scooter_the_shooter]

Quote[/b] (mercian billman @ July 16 2004,14:12)]First off I've never had sex and am proud of my virginity and Im not a fundamentalist, Im a diest.

I personally think sex really isn't that important in a realationship. I mean there are other measures of compatability besides sex and if their not in place the best sex in the world will not keep a relationship going.

Condoms will not prevent all STDs like Herpes and such.

thats why i dont plan to do any of that till i am married

[mercian billman]

Good for you Ceaser010

It's good to see more kids turning away from promiscuity and embracing family values Here's a article you'll like which shows you are not alone.

Good News The Kids Are Alright

[Tachikaze]

Rasoforos is exactly right. Sexual compatibility is extremely important in a marriage. I am over 40 and have had a lot of experiences of all kinds. I've learned at least two things relevant to this discussion:

1) Sexuality is part of what distinguishes a romantic or nuptual relationship from any other. Being with someone you are not compatible with is miserable. There is a whole crucial area of your relationship that is sour. I stayed in a relationship too long with this situation. Marriage would have been a mistake. And later, when I got to know more women, I realized how much better a relationship could be, and just how compatible two people can be.

2) I had my heyday in my 20s. It was an exciting time. I was very busy and learned a lot about women, relationships, sex, and romance. Those experiences were precious. I am a much better husband today because of it. And, as rasofos was mentioning, I got tired of promiscuity. If I had repressed myself earlier, I would probably be unsettled, curious, and likely to give in to temptation. I might also have self-confidence issues. I might use female attention to help me feel desirable.

I do have one disagreement with rasoforos. Abstinence is the most effective method of avoiding STDs. I am so glad I'm not in the meat market these days My time was safer.

[shakaka36]

i despise cheating, i was once suspended for beating up a guy who had cheated on his girlfriend (i was good friends with the girl)

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Tachikaze @ July 16 2004,19:34)]I do have one disagreement with rasoforos. Abstinence is the most effective method of avoiding STDs. I am so glad I'm not in the meat market these days My time was safer.

Indeed it is but, the overwhelming majority of the kids pretending to follow this practice , actually do not or will not at a point in their lives ( trust me guys , even if your right arm is 3 times the size of your left , when it coems to the real thing you will propably make an exeption). This , in addition to the fact that teaching abstinence usually leads to a severe lack of teaching safe sexual practices leads to 'abstinent' youths having unsafe sex more often than the rest of us. It seems to me that the only 'education' they get is that sex will certainly give them STD's.
If one is to be punished for currying a pack of rubbers (since it shows you are planning to have pre-marital sex) then one will propably not use rubber at all.
In any case i just hope these kids try what the are rejecting instead of pretending to one another how virtuous they are...and that they do not end up with a wife as frigid as a polar bear's behind.

[mercian billman]

Rasaforos, do you want to tell why it's wrong to follow traditional values? If you read the link I posted you would see that more kids are drifting away from promiscuity and have become more traditional than their parents. Here's a little excerpt from the article,

The changes in politics are rooted in changes in values. Last year, the rate of teen pregnancy dropped to a record low. Better birth control is not the sole explanation; the proportion of teens who had intercourse fell from 56 percent in 1991 to 46 percent in 2001.


Maybe that's not the case in the UK but, more American kids are embracing the traditional values that our parents rejected.

[BDC]

Great. So they are burning crosses again and lynching people?



Bit low that sorry.

Cuturally Britain is very different from the US in this regard. You are becoming more religious and whatnot again, whilst we really aren't. It's just accepted as normal here.

You'd have to be stupid to get pregnant though. Free condoms, free morning after pill, free advice, free everything...

[mercian billman]

Were accepting traditional values but, were not burning crosses or forcing women to stay in their homes. Im not sure about people becoming more religous though as I've stated before I'm a deist.

[shakaka36]

isnt religious studies the fastest growing CIE subject in the UK?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (shakaka36 @ July 18 2004,04:23)]isnt religious studies the fastest growing CIE subject in the UK?

What's CIE?

[Navaros]

you sex-obsessed guys make me sick, and i'll tell you why

some of you guys are only with women who you find to be attractive. which IMO, makes you very superficial and shallow. yes, it is your perogative to be superficial and shallow if you want to. that doesn't make it ok or wise, however.

btw, don't give me crap like i don't only go for looks. whether you only go for looks or not, is not the point. sure we'd all like to marry a genius Ph.D who is goodlooking too. but if looks is one of your main requirements for who you'd be with, then that alone is very tragic IMO

you see, no matter how goodlooking you are now, eventually you will be ugly, and so will your woman

so what then - you're gonna dump your woman after all those years just because she no longer looks good? or you're just waiting for the day when she will dump you, because you no longer look good?

any humans who base their relationships largely upon physical appearances, are tragic beings

[NagatsukaShumi]

I myself am still a virgin but I have had girlfriends in the past, the tragic part is, every one of them cheated on me, which has clearly made me come to the descision that cheating is the lowest thing a partner could possibly ever do to somebody, having experienced what its like I would NEVER do it to another person as I will always remember how awful it made me feel and I couldn't bare to hurt another person that way.

Love doesn't really matter when it comes to cheating, its the betrayal of your trust that hurts you the most, whether you were just having fun or not, if your going out then stick to eachother, if your just together for a bit of fun, don't become boyfriend and girlfriend, just fool around and hang out together then if you go with someone else, it won't hurt the other person as you weren't even serious.

Going out together should show commitment, to those saying if you break up with a girl your going to brak their heart anyway, speaking from the experience of been cheated on I would have rather been dumped then have to learn that my grilfriend had been sleeping with another guy because they were bored with me, it'd hurt less if they dumped me first, believe me

That aside, revenge was always fun and brutal, so remember, cheat and they'll get you back somehow .

[BDC]

Quote[/b] (shakaka36 @ July 18 2004,04:23)]isnt religious studies the fastest growing CIE subject in the UK?

Not exactly sure what CIE is, but RS is popular because it is a doss. Basically.

And the lowest circle of hell is reserved for mutineers and traitors, remember that. Cheaters could be included there often...

But meh. Has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis in my view. Most of the time thought cheating is really low.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (BDC @ July 18 2004,23:30)]

Quote[/b] (shakaka36 @ July 18 2004,04:23)]isnt religious studies the fastest growing CIE subject in the UK?

Not exactly sure what CIE is, but RS is popular because it is a doss. Basically.

And the lowest circle of hell is reserved for mutineers and traitors, remember that. Cheaters could be included there often...

But meh. Has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis in my view. Most of the time thought cheating is really low.

Exactly. Anyone could pass RE at GCSE. The only reason most people take it in the UK is because they don't like History and Geography and have to a humanity.

Navaros-biogically, we are attracted to good looking people. It indicates health. I don't see any reason to deny this impulse.

[shakaka36]

yeah GCSE is what i meant, i took it in NZ where it was called CIE cause it was the Cambridge International exams

[shakaka36]

you see, no matter how goodlooking you are now, eventually you will be ugly, and so will your woman


unless you're Dick Clark, that guy hasnt aged in 20 years, and no plastic surgery to boot.

[Papewaio]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ July 19 2004,00:27)]you sex-obsessed guys make me sick, and i'll tell you why

some of you guys are only with women who you find to be attractive. which IMO, makes you very superficial and shallow. yes, it is your perogative to be superficial and shallow if you want to. that doesn't make it ok or wise, however.

btw, don't give me crap like i don't only go for looks. whether you only go for looks or not, is not the point. sure we'd all like to marry a genius Ph.D who is goodlooking too. but if looks is one of your main requirements for who you'd be with, then that alone is very tragic IMO

you see, no matter how goodlooking you are now, eventually you will be ugly, and so will your woman

so what then - you're gonna dump your woman after all those years just because she no longer looks good? or you're just waiting for the day when she will dump you, because you no longer look good?

any humans who base their relationships largely upon physical appearances, are tragic beings

Why not go for the complete package?

Looks are part of it... otherwise everyone would be bisexual... also looks are a good indication of how healthy someone is... comes down to creating the next generation... what we see as good looking are all survival traits... breasts for babies... high checkbones are associated with better disease resistance... etc.

As for myself I have a good looking wife who has a university degree, she is someone I can trust. Trust is a very important part of a relationship, for me trust and integrity are the foundations of Love while being sexually attactive and compatible are part of having a great relationship. Other things like sense of humour, foods, movies etc are all semi-important.

Now if I ever cheat on my wife she has promised to slice off my genitals and staple them to my forehead. No problem as I think cheating is wrong, particularly in marriage.

[Ja'chyra]

How moralistic Nav, why don't you try living in the real world though.

If you meet a girl in a bar the first thing you notice is how she looks, unless of course she's wearing her university robes but that's not very likely.

Still, maybe we should go to the pub together, as everyone knows good looking girls always have an ugly friend, so you could have the ugly one and leave me to my shallow life with the fox.

[English assassin]

If you ask me its not cheating that's wrong...its getting caught.

[KukriKhan]

::dropping mod garb to spout personal opinion::

It's all about being a M A N

Which is to say: keeping your promises, doing what you say you'll do.

If you promise I'll be your boyfriend, and pay attention to no other females., then that's what you do. Period.

If you change your mind later, for whatever reason, you're obliged to go back to that person, and be released from that promise. If you don't do that, you're not an honorable man.

All that said, IMO 16 is too young to make that kind of promise, for most guys. Hormones will make it almost impossible to comply. So the promise shouldn't be made in the first place.

::resumes mod mode::

[Hetman_Koronny]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ July 18 2004,09:27)]you see, no matter how goodlooking you are now, eventually you will be ugly, and so will your woman

wooot? you gotta be kiddin me man...

j/k

Actually, I very much agree with you. But few people realize that; I wouldn't bother trying to make them aware of that...

I re-visited this thread after a while and was not really surpriced that the opinion that cheating is wrong has been supported by only few people. I thought I wouldn't repeat my point of view and there's this subtopic that evolved that I like to comment on...

Sex before marriage?

I kinda agree with rasoforos who claims that there isn't a good relationship (long-term) if sex is not involved - incompatible good partners cannot be... But there's a threat if you thing about it. Even the best sex can eventually get a little boring. I know you're gonna flame me with 'Uhm, if I had one of Soly's girls, there's no way...'. Well, I guess there is a way.

Let me briefly digress. Burning love and fascination to the other person we feel during the first stage of relationship vanish rather quickly. And there is nothing wrong with it because you build your relationship upon other, longer lasting values like trust and respect. Feel free to comment but I really believe in it.

So, methinks, there is a danger that when a couple explores all that is to explore in advance they may be facing a danger of a relationship/marriage that is not solid. One day you may be find yourself looking at your girl and thinking: why the hell I am wasting my time with that woman? I've had it all. She can't give me more. This is when problems start...

I have been in a relationship for almost 7 years now and she should soon be my wife. We started out early and from a time perspective I am happy to say that there are no side effects (as described above). We are a happy couple who took the risk. And, while I agree that sex before marriage is a 'must-be' for many people, I also think that, like everything, it should be controled and should only make for an awesome element of a relationship (not its foundation).

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ July 18 2004,09:27)]

Quote[/b] ]

you sex-obsessed guys make me sick, and i'll tell you why

Since when is having a sexual life the same as being sex-obsessed? Please return to the real world...

Quote[/b] ]

some of you guys are only with women who you find to be attractive. which IMO, makes you very superficial and shallow. yes, it is your perogative to be superficial and shallow if you want to. that doesn't make it ok or wise, however.

Yes, looks count. Dont tell me you ll marry the female version of Freddy Cruger just because you 'communicate'? .Its all a matter of balance , its intelligence , its looks , its sex, its communication. And ou know what? you must be so convinced that we (the people of the outside world) go only for looks and that pretty girls cannot possibly be smart than i dont think i can convince you...

Quote[/b] ]
you see, no matter how goodlooking you are now, eventually you will be ugly, and so will your woman

Again totally irrelevant with anything we said. To extend your 'logic' sooner or later we ll also be dead so why marry? why use the net? why have this discussion? lets all sit down quietly and wait for our time to come...
Your argument is like ' if you buy milk now it will be sour in 10 days , so why buy fresh? '

Quote[/b] ]
any humans who base their relationships largely upon physical appearances, are tragic beings

To add up on all that you dont even know what 'tragic' means...



Seriously now mate, after posts like this and posts like (whoopi goldberg is evil) i seriously think you should seek some professional help. You ve got a really distorted image of the real world. Everyone who has a sex life is NOT sexually obsessed , people dont just go for looks , everyone who dissagrees with you is not necessarily evil...


P.S : At least, please tell me you dont believe women to be inferior or subordinate or something like that...and that you are not 30 years old or more....

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]
Seriously now mate, after posts like this and posts like (whoopi goldberg is evil) i seriously think you should seek some professional help. You ve got a really distorted image of the real world.

Please, advices like that aren´t helpful.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Trust Saturnus on that one, I agree with him cause I have some experience.
-Capo

[BDC]

Of course people care about looks. It's INSTINCT. A curvey woman is better fed, healthier and more fertile than one who isn't.

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ July 19 2004,17:51)]

Quote[/b] ]
Seriously now mate, after posts like this and posts like (whoopi goldberg is evil) i seriously think you should seek some professional help. You ve got a really distorted image of the real world.

Please, advices like that aren´t helpful.

No actually i think it would be very helpful.Its an advice and not meant to be an accusation or a demeaning comment ( and something that most of us 'sexually obsessed' people would recomment )

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ July 20 2004,11:30)]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ July 19 2004,17:51)]

Quote[/b] ]
Seriously now mate, after posts like this and posts like (whoopi goldberg is evil) i seriously think you should seek some professional help. You ve got a really distorted image of the real world.

Please, advices like that aren´t helpful.

No actually i think it would be very helpful.Its an advice and not meant to be an accusation or a demeaning comment ( and something that most of us 'sexually obsessed' people would recomment )

Well, it would help a lot of people to visit a shrink. But an advice like that isn´t usefull in a discussion because instead of actually encouraging anyone to seek counseling, it will only produce hard feelings.
Apart from that, it´s not a psychotherapist´s job to rectify views you deem wrong.

[The_Emperor]

I don't do cheating, it only complicates matters... Also as we all know those secret vices don't stay secret forever

[mercian billman]

I wonder if Navaros has seen the women of solypist thread?

[Goofball]

Quote[/b] ]Well Brian (name changed to protect the innocent) it really doesn't matter if you cheated on your girlfriend. By having pre-marital sex you've already cheated on god.

If it's advice you want I suggest you consider who's being cheated here. The only person being cheated is your girlfriend obviously you and the new chick are having fun from all this and 2 out of 3 ain't bad

God really doesn't care if you have sex with 1 person or 1 million if your not married he's pretty damn angry.

Technically, it's not pre-marital sex if you have no intention of marrying the girl...