Pope reemerges a wee bit North

[Tozama]

So I am busy fighting way east of Italy/W.Europe and for the zillionth time the recently reemerged Italians spanked the pope. As it always goes, he reemerges and the announcement comes as the year changes. I am glad because I am not at war with the couple remaining Catholics anyway and have 3 crusade crosses sitting idle waiting for a pope to bless the usage of them. I ignored the details of the warning window.
Well, it seems the pope is a bit greedy upon his return. He not only reemerged in Rome and Papal States but also in Burgandy????
I own Burgandy having conquered it long ago its at 200% loyalty with 1 peasant and one tattered 24 man archer/governor. The pope appears inside with 1200 1st rate troops.
Rut Ro Raggie

Luckily I have a couple troop factories in my neighboring provinces and a few odds and ends armies just south that were holding a border against the Italians in Tuscany.
I won a narrow defending victory but it was very close.

I assumed it was a fluke thing and withdrew my army to other places it was needed.
40 years later, same thing again He appears in Italy but also in Burgandy

[Dîn-Heru]

Has the Pope ever owned burgundy before? If so it is perhaps therefore he also re-emerges there. Even if it is 200%loyal, if it has few deenders it might be seen as an easy target.

[Tozama]

Yea I think he owned it at one time. The HRE, France, Italians and the Pope were all see-sawing in Western Europe through most of the late 1000's to mid 1100's and I wasn't paying much attention since I was securing Northern Europe and building my trade empire at that time.

I just had never seen this before with the pope. He always reappeared in Italy somewhere for me. Added a nice twist to the game though.

[mdutr0]

I feel your pain though. I'm almost hesitant to completely eliminate a faction for fear of backdoor reemergences like that. In a Hungarian campaign I just finished I eliminated the Horde only to have them reemerge on me twice in the same freakin' place

It may almost be better to knock a faction down to one, low level province and just periodically kick their butts if they start getting uppity.

Can't control whether the AI does it or not though...


Micah

[Doug-Thompson]

And people wonder why I play Muslims.

[mdutr0]

What causes a reemergence anyway? I mean I know that it's a long lost heir or whatever and I know the rules for where a reemergence occurs, but is there any way I can keep a reemergence from occuring when it comes to a faction I've eliminated?

For example, I just eliminated the Turks in a Byz campaign I just started. I didn't mean to kill their king; I meant to let him escape and kill almost everyone else and just let him rot in one little nothing province the rest of the game. But I got lucky and some Triez archers took him down. I have now moved on to the Egyptians and plan on moving all the way across N. Africa but would rather not have to deal with the Turks popping back up in my back yard
Does the loyalty rating in their old provinces have anything to do with it?

Thanks,

Micah

[Jihad2Death]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ July 19 2004,11:15)]And people wonder why I play Muslims.

True dat,playing as a Catholic is too restricted for my taste.I like to attack who I want,when I want,and not have a Holy Father telling me what to do.I also hate having to pay him to start a Crusade.

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Re-emergence.

As long as there's a rebel-controlled province left that was once controlled by an eliminated faction, there's a risk of re-emergence. Same goes for a province you control but has low loyalty.

[Tozama]

Quote[/b] (mdutr0 @ July 19 2004,11:25)]What causes a reemergence anyway? I mean I know that it's a long lost heir or whatever and I know the rules for where a reemergence occurs, but is there any way I can keep a reemergence from occuring when it comes to a faction I've eliminated?

For example, I just eliminated the Turks in a Byz campaign I just started. I didn't mean to kill their king; I meant to let him escape and kill almost everyone else and just let him rot in one little nothing province the rest of the game. But I got lucky and some Triez archers took him down. I have now moved on to the Egyptians and plan on moving all the way across N. Africa but would rather not have to deal with the Turks popping back up in my back yard
Does the loyalty rating in their old provinces have anything to do with it?

Thanks,

Micah

We should clarify....

If the pope is defeated and his lands are controlled by any real faction (not rebels) you can count on him reemerging. It WILL happen. Only question is what year. Its a special Pope rule

Other reemergences are random events.

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Clarification.

Yes. Thanks, Tozama. I didn't make it clear that I was responding to mdutr0's question, not the whole thread.

[Dr Strangelove]

Historically the Roman Catholic Church was the biggest landowner in Europe during the Middle Ages. Their total land holdings were probably greater in size than any current nation in Europe today. They certainly would have had the means to re-establish the Papacy. IIRC they owned a large tract of land in Avignon, and at one time the French set up their own Papacy there after the death of an Italian Pope. I'm not quite sure if Avignon would be in Provence or Burgundy on the MTW map.

[katank]

I've see popesta reemerge in finland before. it's a sight to behold.

as for all other reemergences, they have to have a living heir from when they got killed off so about 90 years or so without reemergence just about guarantees true death of the faction.

loyalty is the biggest thing.

make sure it's above 120 and even if they reemerge, it wouldn't spread to that province.

no province below 100 would mean it can't start in the first place.

autotax gives 120. I suggest just autotaxing

[Maeda Toshiie]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 20 2004,18:08)]I've see popesta reemerge in finland before. it's a sight to behold.

as for all other reemergences, they have to have a living heir from when they got killed off so about 90 years or so without reemergence just about guarantees true death of the faction.

loyalty is the biggest thing.

make sure it's above 120 and even if they reemerge, it wouldn't spread to that province.

no province below 100 would mean it can't start in the first place.

autotax gives 120. I suggest just autotaxing

Vanilla MTW auto-tax is set at 100%. VI is set at 120%. However, sometimes auto-tax cannot maintain the level even at lowest tax. Before the end of every turn, scan through the entire map. Shift button is a good friend.

Pope re-emergence happens usually about 10 years of the demise of his predecessor. Guaranteed re-emergence and no such thing as a complete die-off of the Papacy.

Troops of re-emergence depends on the quality and numbers of the garrison (proportional relationship). Advice is to leave the Pope to the last of the game.

[katank]

be conscious about building happiness buildings and in a decade or two, autotax would enable you to tax them at very high and still have 200 loyalty.

[Thomas_di_Montessi]

Yep, the Holy father at one time, used to live in Avignon. That would be just about were burgundy is on the MTW map.

Oh wait, i just repeated what someone else just said..
Stupid me

[Ulair]

Re: autotax.

Autotax works to keep 120% loyalty in the MTW 1.1 patch as well as VI. I use it all the time now - works a treat

[katank]

you can use a -loyalty 120 switch or something like that to get it to any number you like.

[Satyr]

Just beware, provinces showing green with the shift key only indicate a loyalty of 100% or more, not 120%. Got bit recently with that one. This is in patched VI.

[katank]

yep. that is a bit of a problem.

anyone know how to change that value?

[Al Khalifah]

The worst faction for re-emergences after the Pope I would say has to be the Hungarians.
They seem to re-emerge all the time. I suspect the reason for this is that their main territory is all fairly inland. Inland provinces tend to be less loyal due to the 'number of turns to move your king to the province' factor being much higher because he can't just get there in a turn like he could if it was costal and you had a sea-link.

English rarely re-emerge I find. Possibly for the same reason.