Infinite missles on or off?

[Cironir]

Are most people turning on infinite missles for convenience, or just keep it off for realism and challenge? I'm still learning the game, and it seems tempting to switch this on, but it feels a bit like cheating.

[Tozama]

Like any game setting, auto-calcing battles or the whole reloading battles debate, its on personal taste.

I think most people leave it on default (limited missles supply) for realism. I have never played unlimited ammo. since I like it on for realism and the challenge.

I also think switching it off breeds bad habits if you ever plan to eventually play it real.
Like you could bring fewer longbows to a battle knowing ammo wasn't a problem where playing realistically I bring extra bows to replce my first ones throughout the battle.

For me thats more fun, and epic even, like in a real battle where I'd have to manage such things.

[Tomassi_Rossino]

I too switch it off for realism but if you are just messing around I guess Unlimited Ammo is the choice.

[katank]

unlimited ammo will change the balance and cover up the weakness of pav arbs when they have to withdraw and reinforce when they run out which is painfully slow.

also, to run out of missiles in a defensive battle is realistic and tense even if it's only temporary.

[Makuri_Dog]

I use limited more realistic / challenging.
But it seems to me that the AI always has more ammo

[massamuusi]

Basically, it's cheating.
You can put 1920 archers on a hill, and then you cannot be won. Not to mention when you get your hands on some serpentines, then the shit really hits the fan, you can make the enemy units morale sink like -20, if a lonely peasant charges a unit of HJI they flee, after sufficient bombardment of arrows and artillery.
Especially Longbows combined with infinite ammo is godmodding, cheating and generally unfair.

[Medieval Assassin]

I keep ammo limits on in campains, but sometimes when Im feeling crazy Ill turn it off for custom battles, and load up on longbows and pikes VS. 3-4 other nations. Fun fun, but I like to keep it realistic during campains.

One of the first things I done when I got the game was load up on 14 cannons, unlimted ammo, biggest castle I could find, filled it with peasents, shot 'em up

[Darth Binky]

I play with finite ammo. I always think about turning it off, but never do.

It's irritating because I swear the AI gives itself infinite ammo. Once I actually sat and counted the volleys that Jinetes were throwing at me, and it was well more than four (it was several months ago, so I don't remember how many it was). They only stopped when I managed to assault them.

Another reason why I hate those stupid Jinetes....

[Maeda Toshiie]

At Expert, I believe the AI has unlimited ammo. (I recall that being the case in STW, high chance they carried it over to MTW). Also, due to the AI being sucky in placement of archers and esp the javelin boys; only a few guys in the unit can fire, hence they would use up the ammo at a very slow rate, making them seem to have unlimited ammo.

Unlimited ammo is realistic to the defenders, as in real life, they can be resupplied from the rear. However in the game, it grants too much advantage to the defender. Imagine longbows with unlimited ammo. Every battle turns into an Agincourt.

[massamuusi]

Arrows were expensive, not every defender could resupply, also you can cut the resupply routes.

[MadKow]

I tend to play games as default.
The only thing i may change are difficulty settings. On MTW i play on normal. I am getting good enough to consider hard.

On a related note, with infinite missiles doesn't fatigue come into play?

[Despot of the English]

For a little while I did try infinite ammo and it was a breeze at the bridge battle of Kiev facing all those hordes of Mongols .

[The Tuffen]

I used to have infinte missles on because i found that my archers seemed to run out very quickly and hardly did anything. I then modded it so that archers have more arrows (but not too much)

[Doug-Thompson]

I always limit ammo. Muslim units usually don't win long, drawn-out slugfests with western armies. You either win quickly once the melee begins or you lose. Having enough ammo for hours of fighting isn't a problem.

(Edited P.S.: By mistake, this post said earlier that I don't limit ammo. That was exactly the opposite of what I meant to say.)

[Tricky Lady]

I limit ammo.

But it can sometimes be fun to switch ammunition limitation off and fight a custom battle with some very good archer units. Can be relaxing after a bad day at work

[Al Khalifah]

I always leave it on finite. This is probably because I play the classical period mods quite a lot and they have several units which carry a single or a few javelins to throw into the enemy before engaging them in melee. If they are given infinite ammo, the AI doesn't have a clue whats going on and can even try and use legions as skirmishers.

[katar]

i`ve never used infinate ammo and never will, it would make all of my battles seem totally worthless if i did.

[Infamous Al Capone]

Definative answer: Infinite missiles should be on. The game has one failing and that is it has too little ammo to be realistic. For example a siege could last years, therefore the artillery available in a battle is far too little. Archers you argue otherwise but still as with the inperfectrions fo the game. To have a lasting battle they need the ammo. If you'd ever tried using an archers sword you will now why lol.

[Oleander Ardens]

Well I never used infinite ammo, but I made a small mod of the stats were all archers get the power and ammo they got in history. The Turks and Mongols really hurt as the all HA and Archers - therefor it tuned the accuracy a bit down actually...

But talking about infinite ammo: Do also the Javs and Naphtas approfit from it? Can I have Bonnachts with an infinite number of Heavy_Spears?

Immagine how OP

Cheers

OA

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Oleander Ardens @ July 23 2004,16:43)]But talking about infinite ammo: Do also the Javs and Naphtas approfit from it? Can I have Bonnachts with an infinite number of Heavy_Spears?

Immagine how OP

trust me they do profit from it... Imagine a large group of naptha throwers at the base of a bridge hurling a countless array of their stuff at the enemy

Trust me its so OP its not even funny (Well it is funny)

To answer the question, no I limit my ammo. it makes the game a lot more realistic and balanced.

[Accounting Troll]

The number of arrows that each archer carries into battle is totally unrealistic in my view. For instance, the game gives each Mongol Horse Archer 30 arrows each while historically they had 60 arrows each.

Also, archers recycled arrows during the course of a battle - arrows shot by the enemy achers would be gathered up and then shot back at the enemy. Therefore running out of arrows was a highly unusual state of affairs.

The only disadvantage to infinite arrows is that the AI always assumes that you only have a limited quantity of ammo, so sometimes AI units just sit there and let your archers and artillery units decimate them.

[Spartiate]

I do something similar to OLEANDER with the projectile stats and with the unit ammo stats.
Golden HA get 60 arrows as in history they carried several quivers on themselves or their saddle-horns and always had re-supply within easy riding distance.
Desert archers get a simiar number of arrows and all other archer units get 40 arrows rather than 28.
In this way it is no longer feasible to simply ignore weak archer units as they are now much more of a threat.
I personnally used to ignore the Horde HA until i had a handle on their heavy cav and foot troops.Now in my games they are the dangerous mofos they were always meant to be.

[mdutr0]

Interesting how people are leaving the ammo limit turned on for realism. I believe there was a similar thread in either the main hall or the .com forums on the same topic where someone (I cannot remember who) cited serveral real-life battles where the armies brought TONS of arrows/bolts to the battle.

Personally, I think 28 arrows is a bit low for realism. Infinite is obviously too high. Modding the ammo limit up a bit is probably the best way to go imho.

Thanks,

Micah

[katank]

infinite ammo is stupid although upping arrow count for some units is a good idea.

naptha with infinite ammo is amazingly OP as you have essentially a lesser organ gun at work.

I suggest having locations of say supply wagons.

the archers can only carry a certain amount of ammo and need to resupply at the wagons. knights also only cary a few lances and need to resupply to get charge bonus.

if supplies are destroyed, they are out of luck. the wagon should also have some fairly large limit such as 80 arrows etc.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I play with limited ammo.

It just works best for me gameplaying-wise, it balances the units.

Besides, who would want archery duels that last for two hours? I mean, empty your quivers, have 'em taste some cold solid steel and get it over with...


But as always, play the game as suites your style, be it 28, 80 or unlimited arrows.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Makuri_Dog @ July 21 2004,22:41)]But it seems to me that the AI always has more ammo

Yes, and that's one of the arguments for putting on unlimited ammo. But in fact the AI has got as many arrows as you. The AI just uses them less effectivily: a number of archers won't be firing because they can't get line of sight. A human player who positions them better and gives them a better formation.

Katank,

Quote[/b] ]infinite ammo is stupid although upping arrow count for some units is a good idea.

Agreed. What units would be in need of more ammo, do you think?

[massamuusi]

How about the rumour of RTW getting supply formations, at least some sort of supply formations? Or did what the fittan are the guys up to at CA?
Does anyone know?

I made a mod where handguns were arquebus and arquebus were muskets. Also I made the serpentine into howitzer and organ gun was gatling gun
Guess if it was boring? I mean, Napoleon mod is exciting compared to lining up your execution squad and shooting the poor bastards to hell they came from...

I always thought it sucked when my capital is in danger of french dual crusade of 12000 men, and I have only a handful of skilled archers and HJI in between, and despite havin 300000 florins I supposedly can't afford more than 30 arrows / archer I mean, capital is a stone throw away, and it is BIG. And so few archers, only 1000... Not enough ammo for them?
Basically, the enemy is closing on with 6 year preparation time, but the armies in front are tied up. During this time, in real I could make a fricking chinawall blocking them from attacking me through georgia, and I would still be left with plenty of cash to buy all the siege engines and archers I want to...

[ichi]

I always limit ammo.

Want a boring game? Defend a bridge with unlimited ammo.

I also always play with fatigue and morale turned on, and with the clock turned off.

ichi

[caravel]

I think it's the same as cheating, and any game you cheat at gets very boring very quickly. If you're already a master and have beaten everything then maybe a few cheats make it more interesting, but for new players it's bad news. I've played stw and mtw since the beginning and have never cheated at either of them. I found stw easy enough but its taken me a while to get into mtw and I still am.

My opinion? The devs shouldn't code these cheats into the game at all as theres no need for them. AI cheats are another matter of course...

I'm not looking down on people that use unlimited ammo, I just think that this is ruining their experience of the game.

As to extra ammo I don't think any units need any more, and that re-supply would be difficult to impliment or would it? I know that achers defending on battlements had extra quivers handy but that is represented in the game by arrow towers which seem to have infinte supplies anyway as you'll well know if you've sent 200 peasants to chip away at citadel gate.

[massamuusi]

Yes, it's amazing how a handful of peasants (20+) can defend the largest castle against the re emergence of pope, with all his artillery, heavy super infantry and cavalry and arbalests and all... Route the popes army, kill the pope and lose no one.
Isn't that a bit god-modding