Damn Pope!

[Don Corleone]

I'm playing Early, Normal, GA as the Italians. I made a stupid move in 1092. When I invaded Naples, I didn't leave enough men in Tuscany. The Pope, wily fiend that he is, invaded Tuscany. I holed my men up and brought the house on the very next round. He backed off without a fight. I've now sat through 45 years of war and he won't sign a cease fire, he won't allow me to Crusade.... is this game lost? I even tried throwing my daughter, the tart, at him. No affect. Any advice?

[Doug-Thompson]

Just the same I always give: Play Muslims.

But seriously, assuming he has Rome and the Papal States. Bite the bullet and invade them. Besiege the Pope while storming the fort in the other province. Whatever you do, though, lift the siege and march all your troops out before the Pope's city falls.

You do not, repeat, do not want to eliminate the Pope as a faction. You want to drive him within the walls of the town in his last province, then suddenly leave the province. This should be enough to break "contact" with the Pope and get you an auto-ceasefire.

Then all you'll have to worry about is being excommunicated and surrounded by enemies until the current Pope dies.

[Sociopsychoactive]

make sure you have no other contact with him, so no ships next to other provinces, no agents in there and no other bordering provinces and it will auto cease fire.

[Daveybaby]

Quote[/b] (Sociopsychoactive @ July 23 2004,03:09)]make sure you have no other contact with him, so no ships next to other provinces, no agents in there and no other bordering provinces and it will auto cease fire.

That might be tricky, he is playing as the italians.

[Duke of Gloucester]

This is what I would try, but save the game first in case it doesn't work

Crush the pope. I think it is o.k. to eliminate him because his re-emergence is guaranteed. When he re-emerges he will be neutral, so if you keep your borders with him well defended, you should be o.k. You can speed up his re-emergence (I think) by leaving rome undefended.

I'm not that experienced, so follow my advice with caution, but I did deal with an excommunication of a young king this way.

[Tozama]

Because you're at war with him assasination with an assasin will not solve your problem (as it would if you were simply excommunicated).

The ONLY solution in the case you described is force. Attack him and put him out of the game. Crush all his buildings in his provinces and then pull out of them.

In a few years (5-10 maybe) he will reemerge and you have a clean slate with him.
The pope ALWAYS will reemerge so no danger there.

[Sun Tzui]

You don't need to eliminate the Pope as a faction .

Just engage the Pope in Battle and spray him with arrows until he is dead

The New Pope will declare all previous excomunications invalid

[Tozama]

Ahh good point. I stand corrected.
Usually for me killing the pope in battle includes killing everything since I refuse to take a loss in battle on purpose and seem to be unlucky at capturing him or killing him in battle (he always runs - the wimp)

[ah_dut]

who cares, cruch the damn pope

[katank]

actually killing him in battle will eliminate the faction whereas any other death such as by inqs or assasins will simply elect new ones.

[HicRic]

Careful-when he re-emerges, he'll come along with some good stacks.

[Tozama]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 23 2004,15:13)]actually killing him in battle will eliminate the faction whereas any other death such as by inqs or assasins will simply elect new ones.

Right but my point was if you simply assasinate him the replacement WILL still be at war with you.
This is totally separate from being excomm.

If I am only excommed I assasinate him.
If for some reason I need the war with him to end I kill him off in battle.

[Balin son of Fundin]

If it was my game, i'd probably just eliminate him, because hes a pain the the .... and it takes out the option of factions like Spain and Frace who are crusaders to gain footholds on 2 sides of the map..
If this fails, you could do what everyone else has said, or you could just play as him...

[katank]

leaving him barely alive by beating him into a little fort in the Papal states and pulling out is the best option.

ally with him ASAP since he might be so weak that a rebellion could kill him (happened once). Do not let this happen.

relieve the siege so he doesn't die and reemerge with killer stacks in the middle of your Italian empire.

assasinate or better yet burn the sucker so you can be recommed.

[Servius]

Another idea to try just before Katank's plan:

a) zerg Rome, driving the Pope to The Papal States.

b) raze every building in Rome to the ground.

c) pull out and let a minor(ish) rebellion spring up. Hopefully it's a minor loyalist one. If so...

d) zerg The Papal States, forcing him back to Rome with a bigish army (=large upkeep) and no buildings to support them. This will lead to economic and militaristic stagnation.

e) Garrison Tuscany, The Papal States, and Naples.

f) Attack Rome, whittle his army down to an unthreatening size (yet one that still costs more in upkeep than he can make from Rome's income), then use Katank's plan to break contact and end the war.

Burn him, assassinate him, or just wait for him to die. Eventually you won't even be excommed anymore.

The advantage to this is that you only have to garrison 3 provinces instead of 4 and you break the Papal army and economy so much that it will never present a viable threat again. That will in turn allow you to post only minor (cheap) garrisons in the 3 ajoining provinces.

If you took the Papal States first and ended up keeping Rome, you'd have to garrison Venice forever too.

[Drake]

I am so sick of the Pope that these days when I get a chance I build about four strong stacks and leave him in Rome so if he re-emerges I crush him over and over. Costy, yes. Stupid, probably. But satisfying? Ohhh yes.

[ah_dut]

if u're so sick of him just play muslim seriously, or kill the pope, it's quite simple isn't it

[Don Corleone]

There's a difference between being excommunicated and being at war with the pope. Excommunications eventually end, there's no way to guarantee that the Pope will make peace with you. You can't get authority for a crusade as long as he's at war with you.

Here's what I did: I wiped the Pope out completely. I then pulled everyone out of Papal States (left people in Rome). Unfortunately, the Pope reappears in Rome, not the Papal States. So, he wound up declaring war on me all over again. I reloaded and thinking he'll appear in both provinces. Nope, the Byzantines took the Papal States, the Pope only took Rome. So I guess the answer is take him out completely, then abandon Rome and make an alliance with him as soon as he comes back.

[son of spam]

I even tried throwing my daughter, the tart, at him. No affect. Any advice?

Stop tempting the pope! he's supposed to be celibate!

[katank]

use spies instead and hook him up with the brothels

[Ironside]

actually killing him in battle will eliminate the faction whereas any other death such as by inqs or assasins will simply elect new ones.

No killing the Pope in battle (at all?) will make all sieged castles for the Pope, rebel ones instead. But if he still got free provinces, a new one will be elected.