Rebellions

[Game Over!!!]

I have a weird question to ask anyone out there. Does the loyalty rating effect how many units appear when a province rebels? I know that a province will only rebel when it hits below 100%...but do u get more rebel units appearing if the rating is 20% compared to 60%. Do u get 3 times more rebel units showing up if this is the case?
I just took Corsica and the loyalty rating goes from 5% if I keep the current forces in there or jumps to 45% if I add all the units that can reach the province. Either way I am going to have a rebellion and wanted to know if loyalty rating % effects how many units rebel in that province. Any help or info would be appreciated. :;):

[mfberg]

The only thing I see affecting number of rebels is how many and how good your troops are when the rebellion hits, but I haven't tested this yet.

mfberg

[Blodrast]

I haven't tested this myself, but I believe katank claimed in one of his posts that he noticed that the number of rebels increases with the number of troops that exist in that province when it goes rebel. I.e., if you have more troops in it when it goes rebel, more rebels would appear than if you left it deserted.

Try it yourself, then reload and try it the other way, and let us know if there was any difference ;)

[katank]

since rebels attack the year after they appear, leave the province empty if you can and then move in so that you can fight off the tiny rebellion with a large force.

if the naval links etc. gets cut off, then tough luck as you'll lose the province.

the chances of that is rather slim and fighting off a tiny 1 archer rebellion is better than trying to beat off 3 solid stacks.

[Game Over!!!]

I guess it's just tough luck...the rebellion will consist of loyalist anyway. I just took Corsica 2 turns ago and pillaged Sardina just last turn. I'm gonna have 2 loyalist rebellions...1 in Corsica and the other in Sardina.
The Italians just moved in some ships to block my escape from the 2 islands. I've only got about 1000 men...UM, Clansmen and 2 units of FFK, NO ARCHERS. The battle is gonna be real fun.
Thanks for the info and replies.

[katank]

find some forests and see if you can ambush them.

no missiles is gonna hurt.

do you have decent cav?

[Game Over!!!]

A unit of CK's that I got with a loyalist rebellion. I had Portugal for one turn and 5 turns later I got a loyalist rebellion with 4 units of CK's and 3 units of FFK(weeeee).
I used most of the units obliterating the Elmo's in Cordoba with that army.(nasty upkeep on the CK) What's left of that army is 2 units CK's and 2 units of FFK, all except 1 unit of CK are somewhere else.

[Servius]

I hear an interesting similarity in your conversation and some of my own experiences.

It's a habit of mine to have one provice in my empire, almost always at the "back" of the empire, rebel as much as possible. I use the rebellions as easily winnable battles that my kings can fight in to raise their command rank. This, in turn, increases the command rank of future heirs.

I do this with Scotland when England, Brittany when France, Norway when Denmark, and Portugal when Spain. I keep the province mad by not building any militia buildings, towers, or churches there, not having a garrison of any kind, not having any priests or spies in the province, and appointing governors with very low Dread. The inherent rebelliousness of the province also helps.

Anyway, my experience is that when I leave no troops in the province, the size of the resulting rebellion is usually 1 unit, maybe up to 3. On rare occasions I will win a battle with some small army, and even with that army in the province it is STILL pissed and thus rebels again the following year. In those cases the rebellion is often larger.

This tends to back up the idea that rebellions that occur in garrisoned provinces tend to be bigger than those in provinces without a garrison.

So, I think Katank may be on to something.

[katank]

it's usually meant to be a size to make it a close fight in autocalc at least.

at least it's better in VI than 1.1 which was crazy. I regularly saw 5 stacks pop up in 1.1

[Ulair]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 15 2004,03:51)]at least it's better in VI than 1.1 which was crazy. I regularly saw 5 stacks pop up in 1.1

I like that feature . I'm playing an Italian GA game in High and I'm having great fun screwing my enemies by proxy with a stack of spies wandering through their territory starting rebellions all over .

Size of rebellion does definitely seem to be related to size of opposing stack present, but (going back to GameOver's original question) I've seen no correlation between loyalty % and size of rebellion. Since this is my first major use of spies I've been paying attention and an 83% loyalty Kiev rebellion looked no different to a 0% loyalty Lithuania one - same couple stacks of spears and archers, based off similar-sized Russian garrisons.

Because of the big rebellions, MTW 1.1 spies verge on the overpowered, I think, although most rebellions I've caused have been peasants or bandits (in unfortified territories) plus one Turkish reemergence (which gave the Khan a scare ). It's a great way to win at the GA goals without fighting everyone and screwing up trade, although I do sometimes feel the urge to exercise my silver-armoured Italian infantry and pavise arbs...

[Game Over!!!]

Just lost Corsica when the loyalist rebellion appeared. Great fight though. Was totally 'outclassed' from the start. I had 6 units of UM, 2 units of FFK, Woodsmen, Militia sarges, and "butt saving" gallowglasses. The comp had 2 units of CK, 2 units of CFK, 2 units of Swiss halbidiers(sp), 2 units of Italian Inf, CS, FS, and PV.
I lost but killed 13 more units than I lost. Considering the makeup of the enemy army he lost "MUCHO". Corsica just has a port and keep now. My grand inquisitor is gonna have fun BURNING those Italian upstarts.

[katank]

spies definitely were OP in 1.1

I used them in wolf packs of 20 to rampage through enemy territory and wreck havoc.

they are so much more cost effective than using your own armies.

they nerfed them in VI but at east gave valor bonus buildings for them so it's a bit better.

good thing inqs are still OP as ever.

I think within about 3 decades, I eliminated the Italians 3 times with burning, the Huns twice, Germans and Poles each once.

also, except for me, nobody in catholic europe had a general who had a single command star.

my 20 inqs and 20 grand inqs were all at least 4 valor apiece.

[Ulair]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 16 2004,16:27)]my 20 inqs and 20 grand inqs were all at least 4 valor apiece.

Brutal

[The_Emperor]

Sounds like me, (I don't like the vanilla ones much, they have difficulty burning the most troublesome enemies, so I only had 4 vanilla inquisitors)

Anyway my pack of 10 grand inquisitors were all at least V4... I had four who were V5 and three who were V6

When those guys moved into a province on a mission zeal skyrockets to newfound heights.

I love the smell of Flaming Popes in the morning

[Game Over!!!]

Is it possible to burn the pope for being a heretic? Will the game allow it? If so my excommed situation is going to be remedied rather quickly next turn when my Grand Inquisitor shows up and has a weenie roast in Rome.

[katank]

smells like... victory (for those of you who don't know, it's from Apocalypse now).

I had the regular ones before I teched up to grands in castille.

by the time I had grand inqs, I had v4, v5 regular ones which aren't bad at burning generals.

royals you need grand inqs for.

pretty soon, I ran out of targets though and started burning even 0*'s.

the agricultural output also get floored when you burn the populace.

[The_Emperor]

yes never let an inquisitor have a weenie roast because Zeal will take a nosedive.

I find the key is to get them all to bundle in on a target or two in one province... Sooner or later one of them will burn him and the others don't get a chance to start any anuathorised fires because they were all after the same guy.

Hunt in packs, but keep them occupied

[katank]

that's true.

but burning the populace reduces the income. it's funny reducing the sucker's income by burning people.

[Quokka]

I view the Inquisitors and Grand Inquisitors as very overpowered and limit their use. As katank pointed out it is possible to eliminate factions and indeed almost all opposition with the use of Inquisitors only and especially if you add Assassins and Spies. As the game isn't called, Agents: Total Backstab I limit their use to helping my faction only.

Assassins kill targets in my territory only, Spies raise loyalty in my territory only (can advance with armies and try to open gates) and Inquisitors to improve Zeal in my provinces only. The only exception is when on Crusade when I will send Inquisitors on the path one province ahead to raise zeal, but even then only in Catholic territory.

The unfortunate side effect of Inquisitors is they can't be "turned off" so I usually end up killing my own Inquisitors to stop them burning my people.

[katank]

they can. you can try a general and even if it fails, the suckers don't burn the populace but still raises zeal.

just use a peasant to keep burning every turn.

I don't regularly do agent offensives. these are only for amusement.

I actually don't take advantage of this and use that to help maintain the peace as the AI usually are too scared to attack my 6* and 7* on my borders when all they got are 0*'s.

also, the war seesaws a lot more and no one wins decisively which means more trade and prosperity for me.

[Quokka]

Good idea on the Peasants to burn. I never use Peasants at all and would never have thought of that.

Peasants as kindling

[katank]

yep. they can train up inqs and also raise zeal without disatrous effects.

[noramis]

Quote[/b] (Blodrast @ July 14 2004,11:52)]I haven't tested this myself, but I believe katank claimed in one of his posts that he noticed that the number of rebels increases with the number of troops that exist in that province when it goes rebel. I.e., if you have more troops in it when it goes rebel, more rebels would appear than if you left it deserted.

Try it yourself, then reload and try it the other way, and let us know if there was any difference ;)

I've had nobody in a province and when it rebelled, it only came with 1 unit...

Helluva question posed though.

[The_Emperor]

I did exactly the same thing with my inquisitors, they moved around my territory burning through pre-prepared stacks of peasants.

Another good reason to get high zeal and Piety is that the Pope tends to favor you with the cash handouts.

I didn't notice until last night but Every time I burned an enemy Monarch he gave me 1000 Florins...

[Ar7]

Cheese

I never use inquisitors in hunting packs or burn my peasants. It just doesn't feel right.

I usually have a Spanish inquisition or a German one etc. What this means is that i make about 3-5 inquisitors, depending on the size of the country and send them to the selected country. And they can work only in "that" country, the highest valour one is the head of say "The Holy Inquisition of France" Makes for a funner game.

[The_Emperor]

I would do that but it takes far too long waiting from one turn to the next for an enemy to get the 'Atheist' vice before you can burn him... At least by mass targeting Grand Inquisitors you can increase zeal and decrease the time required for a BBQ.

[katank]

use grand inqs like other agents in wolf packs and it's difficult to not have the target destroyed.

[Balin son of Fundin]

When my provinces just plain rebel, they usually get half decent units, with maybe 1 good unit. But when some Muslim bandits for example attack, they seem to have better units with higher zeal..

[katank]

yep, the religious inspired rebellions are usualy quite nasty and can be a crusade or jihad in itself from the quality of troops, often times even better.

staring down a stack of knights in a christian rebellion isn't fun.

[Game Over!!!]

Those loyalist rebellions are the worst BUT the most fun to play. I got Corsica to rebel AGAIN and got 4 units of FK, 2 units of CK and a bunch of Italian Infantry to fight my shabby army of Gallows, Clansman & FS. I lost but had a blast sitting on my hill and inflicting massive casualties against the Italians.
With what was left of my ransomed army, I was able to refit and attack Italian owned Tuscany. Now the Italians have 2 kick-@$$ armies in Corsica and Sardinia and NO way to get them off the islands: I've got it blockaded. So he has all those HIGH upkeep units and can't use them.