I'm Confused

**AssasinsShadow** · 07-27-2004, 15:36

I was playing the Byzantines on early and I decided to rush the Turks. unfortunately, they retreated from every battle, so I was left with a large Turkish stack in Syria and Edessia. Not wanting to slow down, I threw my armies at them and hoped for a win. The first battle was pretty normal, I slaughtered them, but took some decent losses of my own. The second battle had me worried. They had a few horse archers and other decent units. I sent my Treb Archers in first to soften them up, and after two volleys the entire Turkish army fled the field They out numbered me 2 to 1 and I only killed 12 of them. I'm not sure how this happened, but I thought it was kinda funny.

**Despot of the English** · 07-27-2004, 15:44

It's happened several times with me when I'm all ready to attack and start moving towards the enemy and then they promptly pack up and leave. A victory to me with no casualties on either side. The AI, sometimes, knows when he's going to get his arse kicked I guess

.

**massamuusi** · 07-27-2004, 16:29

I often try to avoid battle by formin my troops up in an impressive fashion, and just stand there. Give them some time, and they just might pack up and leave. Second step is to move closer and take even more intimidating formation. So long you have a good army, like JHI and saracen infantry, armenian cavalry and good eastern archers (when playing turks), you can avoid many battles you don't wish to fight.
Also, often if you attack with smaller army, you can fortify on a hill, and the defender will actually attack you Overconfidence?

Good AI, have to say.

**Tozama** · 07-27-2004, 18:44

hmmm....
PLaying on expert dif. if I have a really superior army this can happen...but right in the beginning of the game that's not yet possible and I've never had it happen where they outnumber me 2:1 and they run so early.

Did you attack using a high star general against his low star one?
Are you playing on easy difficulty?

**Ludens** · 08-03-2004, 11:01

I once attacked Aragon with my overpowering stack of royal knights, catapults and order foot (they shouldn't have broken their alliance with me in favour of the Egyptians). I expected a short field battle and boring siege, but instead they withdrew from the province. But there was nowhere to withdraw to, so I captured them automatically and put them all to death.

I don't understand: this was supposed to be a famous last stand, but they just let themselves get captured. And before any one asks: no, Aragon didn't have Toulouse.

This was at Hard difficulty.

**Lanky** · 08-03-2004, 11:35

I had an enemy (think it was English) that outnumbered me get complacent halfway through and begin a withdrawal before I hit with a swift last stand time counter. I eventually won the battle because of this but it wasn't what I expected.

**Tomassi_Rossino** · 08-03-2004, 12:29

I was against the French and managed to rout them in 3 minutes! They put up their general to run into my army first, which was in a line, and they got slaughtered. With their general dead I charged at their army and they routed. :)

**Blodrast** · 08-03-2004, 20:01

gah, I was, I think Spanish, against the Russians, and they were defending. They had way more troops in reserve than I did; after they camped at the very damn edge of the map, and I had to march my troops over hills and valleys for a few looong minutes (with CTRL-T on, ofc), right before I got in range of their archers, they turned their backs on me and all ran away !
I mean, wth ? And I wasn't doing anything fancy such as flanking or surrounding them or anything, just coming straight at 'em.
I must have had a really ugly general...

**Ironside** · 08-04-2004, 16:28

Originally Posted by Ludens

I once attacked Aragon with my overpowering stack of royal knights, catapults and order foot (they shouldn't have broken their alliance with me in favour of the Egyptians). I expected a short field battle and boring siege, but instead they withdrew from the province. But there was nowhere to withdraw to, so I captured them automatically and put them all to death.

I don't understand: this was supposed to be a famous last stand, but they just let themselves get captured. And before any one asks: no, Aragon didn't have Toulouse.

This was at Hard difficulty.

Did you use any mods? I've seen this when I tried WesMod (v 3.12 I think), but never in the original game after the later patches.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 08-05-2004, 01:56

I've seen this as well. Quite a number of times, actually.

Afaik, mostly against roughly equal opponents. A few volleys and they just pack their bags and leave. Not routing, just marching quickly, leaving me puzzled and bewilderd.

I never know why it happens, the one thing I can think of is that those few dozen kills tilt the odds too much, and they decide to live and fight another day.

Patched, unmodded, no VI, expert.

**Ludens** · 08-11-2004, 13:04

Originally Posted by Ironside

Did you use any mods? I've seen this when I tried WesMod (v 3.12 I think), but never in the original game after the later patches.

Yes, I use MedMod v2.04 (no units). But AFAIK that mod only changes buildingpriorities and some province data.

**afrit** · 08-11-2004, 14:39

I have had that happen to me as well. Enemy does not abandon province, but after some posturing on the battlefield they withdraw in good order. I even captured the entire Egyptian army with its Sultan in the Sinai that way (Rebels took Egypt that turn and so they had nowhere to withdraw to).

I think when the armies are close enough in power the AI ventures a battle but then realizes that they did not have the terrain advantage or some other factor and withdraw.

It can be a blessing if you are conserving troops or a curse if you really wanted to destroy their army.

afrit

**Oaty** · 08-05-2004, 08:54

Originally Posted by AssasinsShadow

I was playing the Byzantines on early and I decided to rush the Turks. unfortunately, they retreated from every battle, so I was left with a large Turkish stack in Syria and Edessia. Not wanting to slow down, I threw my armies at them and hoped for a win. The first battle was pretty normal, I slaughtered them, but took some decent losses of my own. The second battle had me worried. They had a few horse archers and other decent units. I sent my Treb Archers in first to soften them up, and after two volleys the entire Turkish army fled the field They out numbered me 2 to 1 and I only killed 12 of them. I'm not sure how this happened, but I thought it was kinda funny.

I've had battles before that as soon as archers inflict some casualties the enemy starts an instant route. But this was due to the enemy general having the vice always retreats wich is negative 9 morale. Well concluding from your post I believe you may have got him to abandon provinces 3 times. Almost any general with a negative 9 morale penalty will have troops that will retreat just from archer fire and as soon as 1 unit retreats it starts a chain route. Believe me I had the A.I. teach me why I should retire negative morale generals. I got my butt whooped by 200 men against my 1200. Yes the A.I. does get a sense of valour and vices of generals and understands how to use those groups of Jedi's when you do'nt know the quality of your men

**Ironside** · 08-05-2004, 10:04

Well the original question, when they enter the battlefield and then simply withdrawals is that the computer decides that he cannot win. You'll see it quite often when you're fighting that 5k army. The last 1000 usually don't enter the field, but are withdrawed instead.
It's a good one actually.

But sometimes the decision is wierd

. Worst thing I've seen was when the Swiss made a sneak attack on my Almohad army that consisted mainly of cav.

His SAP:s was a huge problem and my army took heavy casualities (around 30%-70% in his favor). Suddenly he decides to withdraw

letting me win the battle.

**Gith** · 08-05-2004, 19:23

I've had a couple of battles where I am defending against an equal or even superior force and they either pack up and leave or sometimes they just sit there and refuse to advance until the time runs out.

**katank** · 08-05-2004, 23:39

this was so much worse in shoggy for me.

I've been outnumbered 5:1 with equal troops and have the enemy pack it.

1.5 units of Samurai archers on a hill, 2 units of yari samurai and 1 unit of yari ashi with my daimyo.

I launch a few volleys with the archers and do crazy commando maneuvering to charge my daimyo into the midst of the spear wall and attack the enemy yari samurai general.

the general routs and takes his entire army with him!

I chase them down often killing their gen.

this happens season after season and I held the enemy off there with minimal troops for about 10 seasons before I got tired and attacked.

**eadeater** · 08-10-2004, 16:34

Well, I don't exactly get fortunate enough for the enemy to retreat when they should be winning but I do sometimes get ridiculously zealous defenders not opting to retreat. For example recently I had 3 peasants an urban militiaman hold their ground and defend Portugal against some 2000 of my English conquerors