Newcomer saying Hi and asking for Help!

[Iceflame55]

Ok now, I found this forum some time ago, looking for a year fix to that annoying cutoff at 1453 which I found (PRAISE GOD for whoever wrote that one!); but I didn't register to join in the fun here, cause I'm definatly no programmer, and didn't realize it doesn't take a nuclear scientist to do careful alterations.

I've got three questions, some of which have likely already been answered in the distant past:

1. I'm toying with the Idea of altering the Peasant support costs from 75 to 50 florins. One reason is I have haven't found the Peasants to be as as effective (except to act as body count fodder) as the Slav warriors or Viking thralls which are 75. I'd also like comments on this Idea, as some of you veteran generals might have why this would break the battlefield

2. I LOVE spies and assassins, but it's frustrating to me that you can build assassins of up to +3 Valour, but can only get Spies at +2 unless your playing the Vikings expansion; I want to add the +3 Valour spy building to the MTW main game.

The one above are questions I thought about myself, but here's one me and a friend who visits from time to time would like to ask:

3. Would it be possible to allow a faction that has access to at least one Iron resource in their empire to build weaponsmiths everywhere in their kingdom? Maybe keep the Iron province the only one that could build up to +4, the the provinces next to the Iron to +3, and so forth.


If anyone could/would help on these three I'd be thrilled! Thanks in advance for at least reading, and eternal thanks for any help you willing to give!!!

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Welcome, Iceflame! Nice nick there. ;)

1) Not tested but, I think it may cause the AI to field more and more peasants. In addition, peasants do have their use such as garrisoning a province until building spies, pinning enemy units for javelins/napthas etc. Your decision after all. :)

2) That's been done afaik. Setting an existing building to spy valour +1 is a simple Gnome Editor operation. Adding a new building has been done. The tutorial must be at the .COM. ;)

3) AFAIK, no. Unit/building permissions can be set according to faction, province or religion but no further check is possible. :(

HTH!
_

[Iceflame55]

THAT is quick response! I know peasants have some use, but they don't have enough to warrent the same support costs as the Slavs and the Viking thralls is all I'm noting . In Viking Invasion the support costs are set at 25, so I figured having 50 would be a safe middle ground.

As for your answer of .COM, could you expand on that just a tad? I not very familiar with the alot of the contractions (I'm not joking when I said I was new to this!)

[massamuusi]

You should decrease the thrall upkeep too, since the whole idea is that they're equally cheap but better.
Have you ever fought two campaign battles in a row with the computer fielding 3000 peasants in addition to his actual army? You know, there's no point. Just make horseshoes and kill as many as you can before they run away. On average you lose 10 men against a 200 peasant unit.

[Maeda Toshiie]

THAT is quick response! I know peasants have some use, but they don't have enough to warrent the same support costs as the Slavs and the Viking thralls is all I'm noting . In Viking Invasion the support costs are set at 25, so I figured having 50 would be a safe middle ground.

All these units are of a certain class: conscripted/impressed into service natives. They are the most base level units, and hence the same support cost.

As for your answer of .COM, could you expand on that just a tad? I not very familiar with the alot of the contractions (I'm not joking when I said I was new to this!)

I am a regular at the .com (cant tell what that means?). Basically thats the official CA site for the Total War series: http://www.totalwar.com The place you would want to go: http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm9

At the main site, we refer this site as the Org.

[Sinner]

It would be possible to create a new type of Metalsmith that doesn't require Iron as a prerequisite to build. For balance I'd make it more expensive than the original version - representing the extra costs to set up trade links to Iron producing regions - as well as limiting it to a maximum +3 bonus.

The problem would be how to stop the AI from building both types of Metalsmith in an Iron producing region, thus wasting its resources and time. One possible solution would be to create a new resource, 'Traded Iron', that is a prerequisite for the new Metalsmith, placing it in every non-Iron producing region.

[Maeda Toshiie]

It would be possible to create a new type of Metalsmith that doesn't require Iron as a prerequisite to build. For balance I'd make it more expensive than the original version - representing the extra costs to set up trade links to Iron producing regions - as well as limiting it to a maximum +3 bonus.

The problem would be how to stop the AI from building both types of Metalsmith in an Iron producing region, thus wasting its resources and time. One possible solution would be to create a new resource, 'Traded Iron', that is a prerequisite for the new Metalsmith, placing it in every non-Iron producing region.

Make your metalsmiths unique.

[Iceflame55]

Thank you for the link! *Zips off looking for Info needed*

[Sinner]

Make your metalsmiths unique.

The unique trait of buildings only stops you from building more than one of that particular building, so you'd only be able to build one Metalsmith & one non-Iron Metalsmith in your entire kingdom (assuming you made both types unique), when what is needed is a way to limit one type of smithy to Iron regions and the other to all other regions.

[Iceflame55]

Maybe call the Non-Iron metalsmith by different name, like maybe Weaponsmith? And to avoid having them be built in same province maybe make it where is the AI detects Iron in the province they not allow the Weaponsmit to be built (something similar to how the AI insists there be Iron or Trading Goods in an area before allowing the Trading Posts/Metalsmiths to be built?)

[Papewaio]

Welcome to the Org Iceflame... I used to use that name in Pool of Radience... along with Warhawk, FireIce and the like :D

Have Fun at the Org

[Sinner]

Maybe call the Non-Iron metalsmith by different name, like maybe Weaponsmith? And to avoid having them be built in same province maybe make it where is the AI detects Iron in the province they not allow the Weaponsmit to be built (something similar to how the AI insists there be Iron or Trading Goods in an area before allowing the Trading Posts/Metalsmiths to be built?)

You can only set the presence of a resource/trade good as a prerequisite to allowing a building to be constructed, you can't make the presence of a resource/trade good a bar to constructing a building. Similarly, you can't have the absence of a resource/trade good as a prerequisite.

[kukri]

Hi Iceflame55

[Mouzafphaerre]

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kukri, by any chance are you a resurrection of good old Kukri Khan? Otherwise, welcome to the ORG!
_

[Iceflame55]

You can only set the presence of a resource/trade good as a prerequisite to allowing a building to be constructed, you can't make the presence of a resource/trade good a bar to constructing a building. Similarly, you can't have the absence of a resource/trade good as a prerequisite.

*Sighes* I KNEW that was too easy, but since I don't know much of how to tweak things, I hope you'll forgive me if I stumble a bit; if I remember right that's how we all learn more often than not, by tripping over our own two feet!

One reason why the metalsmith being restricted irrates me the way it is, is the fact that there were places on earth that wasn't noted for their Iron mines, yet were recognized the world over as weaponsmiths of the highest order (like Damascus). It's also a bit strange that you can have be best armor in history anywhere you've built the infrastructure enough, but you can't find weapons to equal them in the same locale. I don't like the thought of adding Iron as a resource in every province either, though that would be a quick and dirty way to fix this.





And I thank you all for the warm welcome!

[KukriKhan]

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kukri, by any chance are you a resurrection of good old Kukri Khan? Otherwise, welcome to the ORG!
_

Argh...Busted. Yes Sir. Just trying to find out how life is as a new guy on the new forum software, from personal experience.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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_

[Kali]

One possible solution would be to create a new resource, 'Traded Iron', that is a prerequisite for the new Metalsmith, placing it in every non-Iron producing region.

Thats one way around it. Or create a non buildable building, (make it to expensive to build and set the building requirment sky high so you never get site of it) add it in the startpos file and make it the pre-requisite for your new stuff. The forest clearing in the Viking build prod is indestructable so is the most useful for this. You could borrow the blacksmith bifs from the Viking invasion stuff, mod it a little and "hey presto". I introduced a new economic branch to the tech tree this way.


p.s Anyone know what makes the the forest clearing indestructable

[The_Emperor]

p.s Anyone know what makes the the forest clearing indestructable

Probably the fact that nobody has the patience to replant all those trees!!

[Iceflame55]

Another thought might be to allow the last two troop buildings give a +1 and +2 to weapons grade. Either that, or allow EVERY unit to go get their weapons upgraded at a weaponsmith, instead of JUST the units you can build there (like the Genoese Sailors going to Tuscany!)

[Sinner]

Another thought might be to allow the last two troop buildings give a +1 and +2 to weapons grade. Either that, or allow EVERY unit to go get their weapons upgraded at a weaponsmith, instead of JUST the units you can build there (like the Genoese Sailors going to Tuscany!)

Unfortunately the game engine only allows you to upgrade a unit in a region that can also produce that unit, there is no way to mod this to do as you suggest, it's hardcoded.

Modding the troop producing buildings is possible but might be somewhat unbalancing, since the higher levels already allow access to superior troop types as well as providing a valour bonus at the highest level.

Kali's idea is another workable mod to do what you want, with a extention of that idea being to make the new building type - copying Blacksmith from the Viking campaign - fully buildable with prerequisites of Iron and the Metalsmiths Guild. Metalsmiths are then modded to not require Iron, but adding the prerequisite of the Blacksmith for the Master Metalsmith. You can also adjust the build times & cost for Master Metalsmith & Blacksmith so that it doesn't cost anymore or take any extra time to produce all levels of Metalsmith, perhaps setting Blacksmith at 200Fl & 2 years with Master Metalsmith at 800Fl & 8 years. Overall perhaps the most elegant solution that will definitely work.

Another idea I'm going to try when I get home is to see if it's possible to mod the Metalsmith so that Iron is only required by the Master Metalsmith. The required resource field might only allow a single value in which case it won't work, but hopefully it's like some of the other fields that allow multiple values, in which case the solution is very simple.

[Iceflame55]

Unfortunately the game engine only allows you to upgrade a unit in a region that can also produce that unit, there is no way to mod this to do as you suggest, it's hardcoded.

Modding the troop producing buildings is possible but might be somewhat unbalancing, since the higher levels already allow access to superior troop types as well as providing a valour bonus at the highest level.

Kali's idea is another workable mod to do what you want, with a extention of that idea being to make the new building type - copying Blacksmith from the Viking campaign - fully buildable with prerequisites of Iron and the Metalsmiths Guild. Metalsmiths are then modded to not require Iron, but adding the prerequisite of the Blacksmith for the Master Metalsmith. You can also adjust the build times & cost for Master Metalsmith & Blacksmith so that it doesn't cost anymore or take any extra time to produce all levels of Metalsmith, perhaps setting Blacksmith at 200Fl & 2 years with Master Metalsmith at 800Fl & 8 years. Overall perhaps the most elegant solution that will definitely work.

Another idea I'm going to try when I get home is to see if it's possible to mod the Metalsmith so that Iron is only required by the Master Metalsmith. The required resource field might only allow a single value in which case it won't work, but hopefully it's like some of the other fields that allow multiple values, in which case the solution is very simple.

Let me know if it works, would you? and please post exactly how you did it??? Thanks in Advance!

[Sinner]

Hi Iceflame,

Unfortunately I had no joy with the idea of making Iron a requirement only for Master Metalsmith... it seems that the game engine ignores any of the characters normally used in other fields to allow multiple values, and only takes note of the value representing the Iron requirement, applying that to all levels of Metalsmith.

I tried out the other method, copying the Blacksmith entry from vikings_build_prod.txt & adding it to crusaders_build_prod13.txt (after backing up the latter file, of course), then modded both Blacksmith & Metalsmith. With Blacksmith I removed the Master Blacksmith entries, making it a single level building, changed the building type from TROOP_PRODUCER to NON_PRODUCER, changed the build requirements from CASTLE2 to METALSMITH3, added the resource requirement of IRON, and changed the tech level from 2 to 5. With Metalsmith, I removed the resource requirement of Iron and changed the build requirements for Master Metalsmith from METALSMITH3 to METALSMITH3 and BLACKSMITH.

That was the cheap & dirty change, just to gte the mod working. To improve the look & feel you'd also want to adjust the info panel text & perhaps the info panel graphic & building graphic plus use the AI building production preferences of the Metalsmith instead of the orginal Blacksmith preferences.

Since it's odd that you can build Armorer anywhere - when making armour would probably require more iron than making weapons - a similar mod would change Master Armorer to also require Blacksmith, tweaking Blacksmith to be buildable when either the Armourer's Guild or the Metalsmith's Guild is built. The Military Academy is an example of conditional building prerequisites to show how this could be done.

[katank]

great work, sinner!

[Iceflame55]

Still, at least we know ONE way it's possible now! And thank you very much for sharing :).

[Iceflame55]

By the way, has anyone worked out how to stop the AI from removing units from being built after a certain time? A friend of mine was playing the English and when he tried to bring a Frydmen unit back up to speed, he found that he couldn't repair the units that had taken losses, or build new ones!

[katank]

that's the period restrictions.

use gnome, find the corresponding unit and then change it from early to all_periods.

[Iceflame55]

Thanks for that tip Katank. Reason I've been not here is I've been tinkering :).