What's required for to build a keep?

[Grifman]

I can't figure this out. I capture some territories with forts, but I can't upgrade to a keep right off the bat like you could in MTW. Is there some other prequisite? I can't find it in any of the building descriptions. I eventually get to where I can upgrade to a keep, but I haven't found the pattern of what is required yet.

This mod is great, one of the best I've seen of any game really, but it really needs a tech tree/unit FAQ. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.

Grifman

[komninos]

Depending on what calture you are
Catholics (Democrats) need a Stoa

Orthodox or Muslim (Oligarchy, East Empires) need a Provinsial Govenors Estate

Pagans can't built these so they can't get more than that.

[Saracen]

I just D/L the mod and it is great work. Just out of curiosity is there any documentation (I have found none) for the mod. How were you supposed to know for example the answer to this person's question? Secondly will the issue of to much money been addressed? Money was part of the challenge of the original game but I find it to be no issue here resulting in armies much to large for the period. If it is not going to be addressed is there a file I can modify that would reduce the income of provinces to about 20% of their current value. I would also like to reduce the starting money. Other than no apparent documentation and this money issue this is a "professional" job and I thank those who made this effort.

[Red Harvest]

Have to agree about this mod being a very professional looking job. There are some limitations imposed by the game engine of course (like referring to catholics, pagans, etc.)

Hope they can work out the money issues. I see one problem when that happens though...the AI will resort to building huge numbers of "trash" units rather than a few good hoplites. Probably will need to adjust the build priorities to get it right.

[komninos]

Hi we are testing a small patch that deals with the ecomony model you can get it here when you get it extract the file in the main MTW dir. Remember to extract them not dump them there! All the files have to go to there directories.

Yes documentation is missing but with my spelling and all the work that something like this needs ... I don't think we can get one done.

[Meneldil]

I've started a game with the Spartian/Lakedomian, and I'm a bit disapointed by the way greek factions play. They mainly recruit hopliton and hopliton only, since everyone gets a bunch of money after a few turns (even with the patch). If they don't have access to hopliton, they recruit a bunch of javeliner (akontistes I think) to keep the loyalty at 200%.

With so many enomotia hopliton involved, battles are just plain boring, because the only way to defeat a 1600 hopliton army with a greek faction is to recruit more than 1600 hopliton (I'm speaking about the early age).
It quickly leads to huge battles, with huge armies only composed of enomotia hopliton -E.H- (so far, the biggest battle I've seen was 11000 vs 7000 with a total of 15000 E.H) and without any strategy. Of course, that's more realistic than MTW, where a whole country was only able to recruit a few thousands units, but fighting a battle like that would take a couple of hours.

I think E.H should be less powerful, or at least limited in someway (with a 4 turns recruiting time, or something like that), but that's just my opinion :)

Right now I'm going to have a look at the Persian, who will hopefully be as funny to play as the Thracian.

PS: I hope you'll consider this post as a constructive criticism, and not as a bitching post. I just thought this problem was worth a post

[Red Harvest]

Hi we are testing a small patch that deals with the ecomony model you can get it here when you get it extract the file in the main MTW dir. Remember to extract them not dump them there! All the files have to go to there directories.

Yes documentation is missing but with my spelling and all the work that something like this needs ... I don't think we can get one done.

I'll give it a try, thanks!

I've not tried digging through the text portions and editing. Would you like some assistance in proof reading some of the HTW text for the next update? I could start looking at editing a few things for you if would like. The content looks good.

There might be a way to provide some sort of basic documentation without doing a lot of writing--maybe a spreadsheet format for key stats for the units, and build requirements for the structures. Some folks did this in the past for MTW. For some other simple documentation you could just start adding lines to the "readme" or another file. I've got an idea. You could start a thread in this forum for information that should be included in a sort of "HTW game info/FAQ/readme" that would serve as documention. People could add suggestions, and the original post could be edited periodically to incorporate them. This would make the documentation of new things a sort of group project. This could eventually be made part of the "official" HTW.

[Saracen]

I D/L the "patch" and over wrote the files in the proper directory. Will this have an impact on a saved game? What is required to build a Stables by the way. I never see one be built but it is required to build some units. Yet I seem to be able to build all the normal horse units? Another mystery to me, LOL!

I can build Egyptian and Phoenecian warships. Egyptian costs 3 times as much and twice as long to build but has worse stats???? What am I missing here?

I am building units and structures in a dozen provinces every turn. I am still gaining 10,000 to 15,000 bucks a turn. I did do the patch. Any thoughts?

[Saracen]

This economic model is just ruining the game for me. Perhaps I can do my own editing. I see three files in the startpos directory. I assume the hellenic_cl.txt is classical, pcl.txt is proclassical and da.txt is geometric? Is that correct? I see inside those files something called "setTreasury" which I assume is the amount of start funds that I can reduce drastically. I also see regional attributes that shows a column called "income". I am assuming that is the base amount of farm income which I could also reduce. Am I correct in all these assumptions? I see something called setimportpercentage which I changed from 20 to 10. I assume that will reduce the imports by 50%. I am going to reduce the treasury to 10% of the current amount and reduce the regions to 50% of their current income to start, just to see what happens. I am hoping that a rduction in the economy will reduce the army sizes which I also think eventually become to large. We shall see.

Also I looked for the Egyptian warship to make adjustments to its stats. Anyone tell me where I can find that. Thanks to all for any assistance.

[Ldvs]

Few units require a high level of buildings, the highest buildings "only" give extra valour.

I dont know what faction you're currently playing but not all have the choice between the phoenecian and egyptian warships. When playing the phrygians i only choose the phoenecian one too ~:p

da.txt = geometrical

If you want to modify units' stats open your Hellenic_unit_prod2.txt (Use the gnome editor it's much more handy)
Although there's no "egyptian warship", it's called by another name and i don't know which one. If you want my opinion, you shouldn't lower the value of the tradable goods, the small factions heavily rely on trade.

[Meneldil]

I kinda agree with saracen here. I'm not playing the mod anymore apart from historical battles because I can't fight any battle 'manually'. As soon as I attack someone, I have to deal with armies of (at least) 5.000 men (if they are greeks) or (at least) 15.000 men (if they are from eastern factions). Battles just can't be played right now, except if you have a good couple of hours to spend, and if you're prepared to watch a not so exciting fight between 1.600 over-powerful athenian enomotia hopliton and 1.600 over-over-powerful spartian enomotia.

That's quite a shame because everything else in the game is perfect : the campaign map, the battle maps, the icons, the new units models, the music, etc.
It's just that seeing the AI having 20 full stacks of his best units in each province kinda kills the fun (there are sometimes so many units in greece or turkey on the campaign map that scrolling the map becomes laggy !).

Hopefully, the economic model and the units can easily be modded (I've never tried to do so, but it shouldn't be more difficult thanediting VI startpos)

Anyway, I'm in no way bitching and or whining, since your mod is by far the best MTW mod (IMO), and I fully understand that the game must be hard to balance with so different factions. This is (I hope) a constructive post that will help you to make some balance changes (if you're planning to do update the mod once more).

[Saracen]

Wow!!!! What a HUGE difference this has made in the entire feel of the game for me. I started as the Spartans as there is less units and provinces to fool with and I have been tweaking the Hellenic_DA.txt file (started in Geometric)and going in and out of the game to see the differences. For the first 15 years I was dealing in the HUNDREDS of Gc. I had to care much more about economic improvements in the early game. The stacks and stacks of units and the ocean full of ships have been reduced dramatically! I was at a net +6 income for the first few years, yes SIX!!!! I really had to struggle to keep the books balanced. Here is what I have settled on so far:

Normal Difficulty is what I was using:
1. Reduced all treasury's to 10% of their original value. For example the Spartans started with 495 Gc.
2. Reduced all provinces to 50% of their original income value
3. Tradable goods value reduced by 50%
4. I did increase the setimportpercentage from 20 to 40. Originally I reduced it to 10 but the imports were in single digits while the exports before reducing them by 50% were in the high double digits. For example Sparta exports Olive Oil and was getting 71 per year for each country it exported to. I had sent merchant ships almost all over the map and was getting over 1500 Gc per year. I consider that to much looking at imports and farm income for balance so I cut it in half but increased the imports.

I am sure I will probably keep tweaking until I get the feel I am looking for. If anyone wants the Hellenic_DA.txt file I am using I will be happy to email it to you with details of the changes that are contained. donaldcole@charter.net

Anyone know what ship is the Eqyptian warship? While I am in the mood to make changes I would like to fix that.***I found it, it was the Cog. I adjusted it as follows range-3, attack-5, defense-5, speed-2, strength-5. I looked at the other ships and their values and the cost and interpreted these values accordingly.

[Ldvs]

It's just that seeing the AI having 20 full stacks of his best units in each province kinda kills the fun (there are sometimes so many units in greece or turkey on the campaign map that scrolling the map becomes laggy !).

Well you didn't see my Persian war campaign, the Persians were toying with a 46 full stacks army , but with the new economic model it only happened to me in this "era". It's up to you to gang up with small factions before one of the major faction overrun the map. (exactly the same strategy as the viking era in VI).