Provinces in RTW. Same number as MTW?

**afrit** · 08-15-2004, 12:11

Looking at some screenshots and at the province profile flash page from Activision, I counted 98 provinces in RTW. By comparison MTW also has about 100 provinces.

I am surprised that they did not increase the number of cities on the campaign map to give the game more depth. I was hoping for multi-city provinces and the possibility of founding your own cities. Alas no such luck.

Oh well, as long as game play stays interesting and historically believable, I'm happy. Still buying the game when it comes out.

afrit

**The Blind King of Bohemia** · 08-15-2004, 12:48

For the purposes of modding I'm really hoping for a few more. I believe you can have a max of 107 with Medieval, so I'm hoping for more.

**CBR** · 08-15-2004, 12:59

I still dream about having same amount of provinces as Crusader Kings does..

CBR

**Inuyasha12** · 08-15-2004, 23:10

I thought there weren't going to be any provinces, just cities

**Lucius Lucullus** · 08-15-2004, 23:18

Originally Posted by Inuyasha12

I thought there weren't going to be any provinces, just cities

If you look at the campaign screenshots you can quite clearly see on the mini-map that the map is divided into provinces, one city per province.

Originally Posted by CBR

I still dream about having same amount of provinces as Crusader Kings does..

What a huge map that would be

I´d settle with twice as many as it is know, because it might be quite hard to actually find names of cities in northwestern Europe around the birth of christ

**CBR** · 08-15-2004, 23:38

Originally Posted by Lucius Lucullus

What a huge map that would be

I´d settle with twice as many as it is know, because it might be quite hard to actually find names of cities in northwestern Europe around the birth of christ

Well yes I was thinking more in terms of MTW 2

But having provinces named after tribes, cities or just..well the province name is fine by by me. Ceasar had several Gallic tribes to fight with and having 5? cities/provines in Gaul seem a bit on the low side.

It all depends what you want out of a game. I like to be able to spend lots of playing time just focusing on a region of Europe instead of being able to conquer the whole thing.

That might not be the focus for RTW, but for a MTW like game I would love to have a long struggle fighting against France as England or being Denmark and mainly fighting in the Baltic region.

CBR

**Sir Robin** · 08-16-2004, 01:11

Having open provinces adds much more complexity to the game.

Of course, only having one city per province takes away some of that potential complexity.

IIRC I guessed there would be about 150 cities/provinces in RTW when I first saw some of the early campaign screenshots.

Having about that many cities is probably the best balance between complexity for the player/AI to handle and an unwieldy campaign map.

**Leet Eriksson** · 08-16-2004, 01:12

It really gets tedious if you think about it, even at the current rate, 98 provinces = 98 cities (speculation on my side) that means you have to commence at least 98 seige battles not counting how many times you lost or taken over that particular city to the enemy, now think about it, 98 seiges + other countless non-seige battles and you have one pain in the behind tediousness ~:p , in MTW most of my MTW campaigns are still unfinished becuase of the rinse and repeat process of conquering provinces after taking care of 60% of the map...

**afrit** · 08-16-2004, 01:41

@Faisal

You are presuming of course that you have to conquer each and every city to achieve total domination. HIstorically, that was not the case most of the time. Alexander won 3 big battles against Persia and only had to besiege a single city (Tyre). Caesar did not have to take every province out of the hands of Pompey after Pharsalus etc...

It would difficult, but not impossible, to simulate that in game play. A parallel can be drawn with the tactical battle part of MTW. In traditional RTS games (eg Starcraft) you had to kill all the enemy to win the game. In MTW, killing every soldier in a unit to destroy it or killing all 1000+ of the enemy in a typical battle would be tedious. Hence they created morale and fatigue. Similar parameters (loyalty/cultural cohesion/etc..) could be created for the campaign map. Win a single battle under certain conditions and the entire Kingdom could be yours.

My point is that with more cities and potential to found new ones, the replayability of the campaign map would approach that of the battlemap. It is not strict historical accuracy that I seek, but gameplay that approaches historical patterns.

Maybe in the next installment of total war.

Afrit

PS: for the bored among you, I compiled a list of all provinces in RTW from various screenshots. Some names are educated guesses. And one name in particular (Domus Dulcis Domus in Locus Gepidae=[home sweet home?]) seems to be a programmer's joke, so the list may not be final.

Number of provinces by geographic region:

BRITISH ISLES: 4
GAUL: 7
IBERIA: 7
N. AFRICA (excluding Egypt): 8
EGYPT: 5
FERTILE CRESCENT: 11
ASIA MINOR: 11
GREECE: 10
ILLYRIA et al: 6
ITALIA: 12
GERMANIA: 8
STEPPES: 11

TOTAL: 100 provinces (102 if Sicily's 3 cities are 3 provinces)

List of provinces and their capital cities:

Province: capital city

Hibernia: Tara
Britannia Inferior: Eburacum
Tribus Siluri: Deva
Britannia Superior: Londinium

Belgica: Samarobriva
Armorica: Condate Redonum
Central Gaul: Alesia
Lugdunensis: Lugdunum
Narbonensis:Narbo Martius
Transalpine Gaul:Massilia
Aquitania: Lemignum (sp?)

Taraconensis:.........
Gallaecis: Asturica
Celtiberia: Numantia
Lusitania:...........
....:Carthago Nova
Baetica:..........

Mauretania:
Numidia:
[Gaetulia? province south of Numidia]
[Sahara? 2nd province south of numidia]
Africa: Carthage
Byzacium: Thapsus
[Lybia:]
[Cyrenaica:]

[Sinai:??]
[Lower Egypt: Alexandria
[Mid Egypt: Memphis]
[Upper Egypt: Thebes]
[Egyptian Desert: Oasis of Ammon?]

Media:............
[SUSIANA/PERSIA:SUSA?Ctesiphon?]
Arabia: ?????
Babylonia: Seleucia
Regnum Palmyrae: Palmyra
Coele Syria: Damascus
Syria: Antioch
Phoenicia: Sidon
Cyprus: Salamis
[Judaea]:Jerusalem
[Transjordan/Edom:Petra?]

Lycia: Halicarnassus
Ionia: Sardis
Phrygia: Pergamum
Bithynia: Nicomedia
Galatia: Ancyra
Cappadocia: Mazaka
Cilicia: Tarsus
Armenia: Artaxarta
Colchis: Kotais
Assyria: Hatra
Atropatene: Phraaspa

Noricum: Iuvavum
Pannonia: Aquincum
Illyria: ?Segestica
Dalmatia: Salona
Paionia: Bylazora
Thrace : Tylis

Macedonia: Thessalonica
Epirus: Apollonia
Thessalia: Larissa
Aetolia: Thermon
Attica: Athens
Peloponnesus: COrinth
Laconia: Sparta
Propontis: Byzantium
Kydonia: Crete [sic]
[Rhodes ?]: Rhodes

Cisapline Gaul: Mediolanum
Liguria: Segesta
Venetia: Patavium
Etruria:Arretium
Umbria:Ariminium
Latium: ROME
Apulia: Tarentum
Bruttium: Croton
Sicilia: Messana Syracuse Lilybaeum
Sardinia: Caralis

Tribus Saxones: Bordesholm
Germania Inferior: Batavodurum
Tribus Chattii: Damme
Locus Gothi: Vicus Gothi
Regnum Marcomanni: Vicus Marcomanni
Agri Decumates: Mogontiacum
Germania SUperior: Trier
Boihaemum: Lovosice

Locus Gepidae: Domus Dulcis Domus (HOme Sweet Home?)
Pripet: Vicus Venedae:
Tribus Sarmatae: Campus Sarmatae
Dacia: Porrolisum
Tribus Iazyges: Campus Iazyges
Tribus Getae: Campus Getae
Scythia: Campus Scythi
Maetois: Tanais
Bosphorus: Chersonnesus
Tribus Alanni: Campus Alanni
Tribus Nakae (sp?): ......

**A.Saturnus** · 08-16-2004, 01:43

Conquering the whole map will be much harder in RTW than in MTW. You will probably win the campaigns by other means than sieging 98 cities.

**Sir Robin** · 08-16-2004, 17:47

There is also a significant campaign goal difference between MTW and RTW.

In MTW, besides the never-perfected Glorious Achievment mode, all you could do was conquer most of the map.

In RTW the goal is Rome as Roman or non-Roman factions your goal is to take and hold that city. Afterwards you have the option of going global.