Janissaries. A question.

**Morgan Frydman** · 08-15-2004, 18:19

Hi, I'm new here. Thanks for reading my post.

Just to let you know (if you're at all interested) I bought Medieval TW about a year ago but rarely played it and then I decided to buy Viking Invasion (just for the hell of it) and now I can't stop playing it.

Anyway, I've been playing a lot of custom battles recently. Mainly, some Christian alliance vs Muslim Alliance - just because I like to replay the crusades.

So I keep setting up my Christian army as defenders and muslims as attackers. I usually have 3 Armies of Turks, with a total of about 6 Janissary corps (as well as other units). Now no matter what units I use, what formation I use, I can't defeat the Janissaries, and hence the Turks.
I've tried charging with Lancers and then melees with dismounted Gothic knights and all sorts of things, but they just don't stop coming. I've tried everything. So my question is, how do you stop Janissaries? Note: I put Janissary valour/weapon/armour to at least 2 or 3 on most of them, some I use no armour for.
I'm a novice at M:TW so I may be using the wrong units to attack them.

As a side effect to this problem, when playing an actual campaign I get scared to go anywhere near the Turks unless they're really weak.

**Kagetora** · 08-15-2004, 18:30

If your playing against Jannisary Heavy Inafantry, than you will get slaughtered, they are probably the best unit in the game. Go to the guide section and look at the unit guides about the jannisaries and other units, read carefully though, personally I'd use Chivalric or Gothic foot knights to beat them, however those units will tire quickly in the desert. You'll need to probably use a combination of things to beat them. Try holding them down from the front with some kind of heavy infantry and than attacking from the rear with Cav.

**Morgan Frydman** · 08-15-2004, 18:38

If your playing against Jannisary Heavy Inafantry, than you will get slaughtered, they are probably the best unit in the game.

Is there no way around this? They just cut through my army like a chainsaw.

Go to the guide section and look at the unit guides about the jannisaries and other units, read carefully though,

Thanks for the advice. I've read through the unit guides, but I still have no tactic to beat them.

personally I'd use Chivalric or Gothic foot knights to beat them, however those units will tire quickly in the desert. You'll need to probably use a combination of things to beat them. Try holding them down from the front with some kind of heavy infantry and than attacking from the rear with Cav.

I tend not to set my custom battles in the desert. I use south European scenery, ocassionaly winter in N. Europe - just for a difference. Thanks for the advice.

**Kagetora** · 08-15-2004, 18:47

Quote:
If your playing against Jannisary Heavy Infantry, than you will get slaughtered, they are probably the best unit in the game.

Is there no way around this? They just cut through my army like a chainsaw.

Not really, you would probably have to use a unit of much higher valor, but other than that, they'll just run you over.

**Cebei** · 08-15-2004, 19:14

In campaign, I can only suggest attacking Turks when they are weak (this means as soon as possible).

In battle, never charge them head on; instead send two units of cavalry. Fake a charge with your first cavalry, when Jans are chargin in return, withdraw your first cavalry and then attack with your second cavalry from the rear. When second cavalry is in combat, charge in the first cavalry, effectively sandwichin Jans.

Or get some swiss armored pikes. they beat Jans.

**Morgan Frydman** · 08-15-2004, 19:33

Or get some swiss armored pikes. they beat Jans.

I've found that swiss pikemen can hold off Heavy Janissaries for quite some time - enough for me to manouvre some cavalry - but end up routing, and then my archers start routing and while I'm trying to sort that out my cavalry's getting chopped up.

Sigh. The woes of being a medieval general...

**Cebei** · 08-15-2004, 19:37

Originally Posted by Morgan Frydman

I've found that swiss pikemen can hold off Heavy Janissaries for quite some time - enough for me to manouvre some cavalry - but end up routing, and then my archers start routing and while I'm trying to sort that out my cavalry's getting chopped up.

Sigh. The woes of being a medieval general...

Well, there are two types of piked swissies. Swiss pikemen and swiss ARMORED pikemen.. The latter beat Jans, provided that they have the same armor/weapon/valor. Really S.A.Ps even suffer very minor casualties.. Ordinary Swiss pikemen are not really effective against Jans.

**katank** · 08-15-2004, 19:54

JHI are hard to counter.

I suggest with huge number of missiles.

their armor value is rather low for such high powered melee troops and can be vulnerable to massed missiles hiding behind meat shield.

also consider using naptha.

**Medieval Assassin** · 08-15-2004, 20:35

Missles, and naptha if you have it just as katank said, also you can skirmish them with some jinnites and tire them out/ kill some before attack them, they will have a penelty fot being tired, they are evil, EVIL I TELLS YA!

**Lucius Lucullus** · 08-15-2004, 23:12

Varangian guards slaughtered Jannisary Heavy Infantry four times out of five in the tests I´ve run.

**Ludens** · 08-16-2004, 14:25

This is why JHI are so loved by Turkish players: there have no Achillies' heel like other units. Missiles? They carry a large shield. Cavalry? Armour? They are armed with polearms. No armour? Their attack is high enough to deal with that. AP? They don't wear much armour so it has little effect.

So there is no obvious counter unit. But there are two things you can do:
1) Overwhelm them and grind them down. If you can sandwich them between two good units, they won't last as long. No unit would.
2) Grind them down from a distance: yes, they have large shields, but these only offer protection from the front. If you can get a unit at their back, they suddenly are much more vulnerable. Mounted archers and Jinnetes are especially suited for this due to their speed. Javelins and naptha work even better, but this requires a pinning unit, takes more time to get into position (and time is lives when you fight a powerful unit like JHI) and you should expect a lot of friendly casualities when using naphta.
I would recommend against using javelins when fighting a powerful unit like JHI. Unless you are fast, chances are that the pinning unit will flee before the javilineers get going. Using javelins or naphta without a pinning unit is a skill I do not posses.