Order Foot in early

[Tamur]

hi all,

I've been wondering for, well, a long time -- is there anything that can beat Order Foot Soldiers in early? I've tried flanking cavalry charges while they're pinned by two units of Feudal Men-At-Arms, pinning with Feudal Sergeants and hitting them in the back with FMAA's, targeting them with two units of archers...

Eventually I can get them to rout, but by the time they do they've mauled three or four of my 100-man units.

Suggestions?

Tamur

[Kagetora]

Order of Foot soldiers are a high moral unit, usually when I play as the Italians, I just use Italian light Infantry and they get the job done, but if you dont have them, than you just hav to pin with a spear unit or you can use Feudal foot knights, you have to mod to get tham though, but I think Fuedal Knights can dismount. You should try to rout everything around them anc encircle them. Feudal seargents are your best bet to use as a pinning force. However, if you put shot after shot of arrows on them it can do alot of damage especially if the arrows are from crossbows. try to get thme to mix up their formation a bit by sending a Cav charge at them follwed by some infantry or another unit of Cav, if the order of foot soldiers are turning or moving, they lose the formation bonus which will make it easier to kill them.

[Sociopsychoactive]

But there are no crossbows in early!

There is, however, a way. Javlins.

Javlins are easy to get (everyone can get slav javlin at least if you have the right provinces) and cut through order Foot's extramly high armour in moments. The best way i would think is pin with FMAA, get javlin to the flank or rear to wear them down alot, when all your javlins are gone charge in with a unit that ha AP attack, say militia seargents, woodsmen at a pinch but preferably something bigge like swabian swordsmen (german and swabia only) viking units (all the good ones have AP) or similar.

usin cav is not the way to go because even out of formation OF have big bonusses against cav, and as they're moral is sky high you'l never get them to rout on a cav charge, which is usually the way cav charges work best. Crossbows or arbs would work pretty well to soften them up, but sticking to early it has to be javlins. Maybe use a good sword unit or three to pin instead of FMAA but the result is pretty muh the same.

[Tamur]

Ah-ha, great! Thank you both, will have to give the early axe units a go and see how they fare.

[Sinner]

One good tactic I use where battlefield conditions allow is to pin them with the best spear/defensive unit I have available, usually Feudal Sergeants or Fyrdmen since I normally only play the English - or a decent merc unit, since I don't care about casualties so much with mercs - with the pinning unit set to hold formation so it'll take as few casualties as possible.

Then I get a second unit with good charge & decent attack, set them in wedge & hit the rear of the Order Foot. As well as improving the effectiveness of the attack, the wedge tends to force the order foot aside, breaking their ranks more easily so that they lose the spear rank bonus. If possible I disengage the charging unit & repeat the attack.

This does require a higher than average amount of micromanagement, plus you can't always get a unit behind the Order Foot due to enemy units protecting their flanks, but when you can do it, it does tend to reduce casualties among your own troops.

If I have javelins available I'll use them before sending in the charging unit or if I can't flank/backdoor. With my unit of choice being the Spanish Jinete: available in all periods & perhaps the most useful javelin troops you can build. You can bribe Navarre or invade without provoking a war with anybody else and start churning out the Jinetes in just a mere 6 years. As fast cavalry they also make great mop-up units once the enemy routs & in a pinch can be used to melee with weaker opponents such as Archers, Peasants, etc.

And even though you don't have crossbows, peppering the Order Foot with as many arrows as you can before melee starts is a good idea, you'll still whittle their numbers down some. If you have managed to bribe the starting longbows from Wales, Order Foot should be high on the list of potential targets for them.

[Doug-Thompson]

1. Play Danes and use Vikings.

2. Horse archers.