Question on leader vice & virtues

[nindustrial]

For the leader of a unit to gain vices or virtues, do they have to be a general in command of their own army, or do they ever gain these types of things while merely being part of another army?

[HopAlongBunny]

As far as I can tell only the top guy in any stack is targeted for vice/virtue. The only exception would be some units with "special" commanders; they are born with the vice/virtue which may not be revealed right away.

[katank]

they can gain v&v's while being part of stacks.

pride is awesome for nongen units. govs always get v&v's for buildings, farms etc. generals are the only one who gets the attacker, defender, sieger, etc. combat v&v's though. exception is king who sometimes take credit for a general's victory.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Some you can get for being in a battle at all, not just commanding it.

The most common I have seen are:
Captured (and the advancement of these)
Good runner (and the advancement of these)

Other 'gained in the fray' vices and virtues should be attainable, but most of them are hard enough to get for the geenral, let alone the troops.

[Ludens]

It is possible to gain V&V's when not commanding a stack (I believe this applies to the 'random' V&V's), but it often seen that the stack leader get's the V&V's his men earn. For example: if you have a governor who earnsthe 'builder' virtue, then the commander of the governor's stack will receive this virtue (it could be the governor himself). This allows your princes to get builder/trader/steward virtues before they become king.

Captured and good runner seem to appear on the leaders of ransomed stacks.

Mind, sometimes strange things happen. Once my Viking prince got 'skilled attacker' for an attack led by Lord Turgeis. I had attacked Ulster with two stacks, one led by Turgeis and one by my prince. Both had equal command and I staged this attack so my prince could gain some battlefield experience. I was rather frustrated when Turgeis turned out to be in command (on the pre-battle screen). But then the prince got the virtue. Strange...

[maestro]

Would it perhaps be a good idea to place all of your royalty and all of your governors in one stack? That way your King would get loads of steward / bulder virtues etc.

just an idea...

[Sinner]

It's worth trying... one nasty thought though: what happens if the King also then gets all the bad vices his governors would have otherwise accumulated!

In the meantime there's always the somewhat cheesy method of continually building then destroying watch towers & border forts in interior regions, +20% farming in agriculturally poor regions and salt mines wherever they appear. These are all relatively cheap and quick improvements to build up the Builder, Steward & Trader series of virtues respectively, without otherwise significantly impeding your empire.

[katank]

heirs can get V&V's if anything occurs in the province they are sitting in.

Thus, it's possibel to get trader and steward vices twice. Once as prince and once as king which is awesome.

I would sometimes go as far as to ship my heirs around the empire to be at various inaugurations etc.

[Khan of ED]

katank dont you think trader and steward virtues, couse vices are bad .

How do you get trader virtues build two trade related buildings in the row?

[Ludens]

How do you get trader virtues build two trade related buildings in the row?

For some reason, trader vices are awarded for building mines.

No, I don't understand it either.

[Sociopsychoactive]

For battle specific virtues, like good attacker/defender, then if the king was in the battle at all, even if he wasn;t commanding it, then if the virtue is earnt, then the king gets it, not the person who general'd the battle. It is possible to make the king not general the battle by placing him as one of the re-inforcements, though this only workls with the pre-battle deployment screen in VI.