Cardinals - what's the point?

**Sinner** · 08-20-2004, 18:09

Originally Posted by Ludens

Catholic Bishops, Cardinals and Imams raise zeal as wel as faith. The only exception is the Alim: her raises only faith.

Are you running a modded version of the game? I just checked the orginal crusaders_unit_prod11.txt file on my v2.01 CD and the only units that effect zeal - as per column 66 of the unit prod file - are both type of Inquisitor & Imans (Ulamas in the file), for catholic & muslims respectively. Cardinals, bishops (both flavours), priests & alims only effect faith.

**Ludens** · 08-21-2004, 10:59

Originally Posted by Sinner

Are you running a modded version of the game? I just checked the orginal crusaders_unit_prod11.txt file on my v2.01 CD and the only units that effect zeal - as per column 66 of the unit prod file - are both type of Inquisitor & Imans (Ulamas in the file), for catholic & muslims respectively. Cardinals, bishops (both flavours), priests & alims only effect faith.

I would swear that my bishops and cardinals increased the zeal in my provinces. I have observed it many times that zeal was sky high seemingly without any other cause (except for an occasional inquisitor dropping by). Yes, I do run MedMod 2.04 but I checked the unit files and only (grand) inquisitors and Imams improve zeal.
Strange. Perhaps I should test it when I play a regular MTW campaign again.

**Darth Binky** · 08-21-2004, 19:22

I don't use mods (I'm running VI 2.1) and neither of the religious dudes increase zeal.

It does appear that zeal will carry over into nearby provinces. So if you have one that is high zeal with an inquisitor (either flavor) pushing it higher, it'll bleed over into neighboring provinces. I dunno if it does so for sure, but it does appear so.

Also there are a few V&Vs that increase zeal.

But I have been playing as the Spanish, and the HRE and Pope have been huge, and they both keep using lots of high valor inquisitors against me. I am keeping a Cardinal in each province (as well as a couple assassins trained in Syria and a spy to catch enemy assassins, since Cardinals seem to be assassin magnets), and the inquisitors have been much less of a problem. But I haven't seen the Cardinals affect zeal in any way- it still drops over time if the inquisitors go away.

The Muslim ones don't affect zeal either. I always seem to wind up with all my provinces at 0 zeal partway through the game, and there appears to be no way to increase it.

:

**sir_schwick** · 08-23-2004, 17:46

Inquisitors really raise zeal? I have been using them to drop zeal in my non-crusader territories. It helps whenever my King or Governor becomes a Pervert.

As for Bishops, I love religious agents for spamming. Helps prepare for invasions, draw away assassins,a nd provide cheap intel.

**Productivity** · 08-24-2004, 04:26

Originally Posted by sir_schwick

Inquisitors really raise zeal? I have been using them to drop zeal in my non-crusader territories. It helps whenever my King or Governor becomes a Pervert.

As for Bishops, I love religious agents for spamming. Helps prepare for invasions, draw away assassins,a nd provide cheap intel.

They boost zeal for a while, then it starts dropping off.

**Sinner** · 08-24-2004, 09:56

Inquisitors boost zeal until an inquisition starts, then all hell breaks lose and your population get slightly upset with the idea.

The trigger for an inquisition seems to be more time based than an threshold value of zeal - the longer your inquisitor stays inquisiting (probably not a real word but I like it ~:p) in a particular region the greater the chance he'll start getting that urge to turn a few locals extra crispy - else it would be near impossible to get the occasional 90+% zeal.

If this is how inquisitors do work, then to get a high zeal without burning your population, just move the inquisitor every few years, perhaps moving him back and forth between the same two regions so you end up with two sources for well equipped crusades. I've read that there is a zeal cap based upon the piety of the King &/or governor, but since I prefer 0% zeal regions, that doesn't bother me - my Kings are always poor catholics which is appropriate since I play the English.

**BigC5** · 08-24-2004, 10:38

So after all that are they worth the extra time and money or not?

**Procrustes** · 08-24-2004, 14:23

Originally Posted by Sinner

...

The trigger for an inquisition seems to be more time based than an threshold value of zeal - the longer your inquisitor stays inquisiting (probably not a real word but I like it ~:p) in a particular region the greater the chance he'll start getting that urge to turn a few locals extra crispy - else it would be near impossible to get the occasional 90+% zeal.

....

I recently had a game where I (as the French) ended up with Rome after the Sicilians took it from the Pope and I helped him out with my first Crusade. Zeal in Rome was maxed out afterwards. The turn I created my first inquisitor there he started an inquisition immediately - before I even got a chance to move him! (The inquistion started as soon as he was spawned.) 1600 people burned at once - I felt awful. I've been very careful about moving my inquisitors around since, I keep them away from any of my own provinces that already have high zeal, and when they are "home" I keep them on the move every turn. It's a lot of micromanagement but it works.

(In the French game, the piety of my kings was always very high - I kept alliances w/ the pope, he kept sending me daughters, never got excommunicated, declared crusades as he requested, took the holy lands, etc. Perhaps if I'd been a little less pious this wouldn't have happened, but I like to role play the GA games so it was fun.)